25 Years in the Navy — Then He Learned a Truth No One Warns You About

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00:00 Introduction — 25 Years to a Blank Page

0:02 He spent 25 years climbing the Navy's He spent 25 years climbing the Navy's ladder from a shipboard engineer to a ladder from a shipboard engineer to a ladder from a shipboard engineer to a helicopter commander to the highstakes helicopter commander to the highstakes helicopter commander to the highstakes budget wars inside the Pentagon. But budget wars inside the Pentagon. But budget wars inside the Pentagon. But then he realized something terrifying then he realized something terrifying then he realized something terrifying about military service. The treadmill about military service. The treadmill about military service. The treadmill eventually stops. And if you don't know

0:16 eventually stops. And if you don't know eventually stops. And if you don't know where you're stepping off, you're going where you're stepping off, you're going where you're stepping off, you're going to fall. Captain Shelby Mounts was a to fall. Captain Shelby Mounts was a to fall. Captain Shelby Mounts was a [music] master of outcomes. He led emergency earthquake relief operations emergency earthquake relief operations in Haiti when demand surged 70% in Haiti when demand surged 70% in Haiti when demand surged 70% overnight. He managed [music] overnight. He managed [music] overnight. He managed [music] billiondoll aviation requirements for billiondoll aviation requirements for

0:30 billiondoll aviation requirements for the Navy. But when he prepared to the Navy. But when he prepared to the Navy. But when he prepared to retire, the advice he got was brutal. Be retire, the advice he got was brutal. Be retire, the advice he got was brutal. Be humble. Take a pay cut. Civilian humble. Take a pay cut. Civilian humble. Take a pay cut. Civilian industry doesn't speak your language. He industry doesn't speak your language. He industry doesn't speak your language. He refused to accept this advice. He didn't refused to accept this advice. He didn't refused to accept this advice. He didn't just find a job. He hacked the system. just find a job. He hacked the system. just find a job. He hacked the system. He spent a [music] year inside Shell He spent a [music] year inside Shell He spent a [music] year inside Shell Oil. As a fellow, he drank 100 cups of

0:49 Oil. As a fellow, he drank 100 cups of Oil. As a fellow, he drank 100 cups of coffee with a 100 [music] strangers to coffee with a 100 [music] strangers to coffee with a 100 [music] strangers to find his path. and now he's the find his path. and now he's the find his path. and now he's the executive director of Next OP, solving executive director of Next OP, solving executive director of Next OP, solving the biggest crisis facing our enlisted the biggest crisis facing our enlisted the biggest crisis facing our enlisted veterans under Employment. In this veterans under Employment. In this veterans under Employment. In this episode, Shelby breaks down.

1:04 episode, Shelby breaks down. episode, Shelby breaks down. [music] If you're staring at the end of your If you're staring at the end of your service, if you've been told your skills service, if you've been told your skills service, if you've been told your skills don't translate, if you are looking for don't translate, if you are looking for don't translate, if you are looking for fulfillment, not just a paycheck, this fulfillment, not just a paycheck, this fulfillment, not just a paycheck, this conversation [music] is your road map. conversation [music] is your road map. conversation [music] is your road map. Industry doesn't hire for anything. They Industry doesn't hire for anything. They

1:31 Industry doesn't hire for anything. They hire for something. hire for something. hire for something. Welcome to Voice for Valor. [music] All right, Shelby, welcome so much to All right, Shelby, welcome so much to Voice for Valor. I've been looking Voice for Valor. I've been looking Voice for Valor. I've been looking forward to this conversation for a forward to this conversation for a forward to this conversation for a couple months. couple months. couple months. >> Thank you, Michael. I appreciate you >> Thank you, Michael. I appreciate you >> Thank you, Michael. I appreciate you inviting me in and I'm excited about the inviting me in and I'm excited about the

1:51 inviting me in and I'm excited about the conversation. conversation. conversation. >> Yeah, it's so inspiring to hear you out >> Yeah, it's so inspiring to hear you out >> Yeah, it's so inspiring to hear you out there helping soldiers, sailors, and there helping soldiers, sailors, and there helping soldiers, sailors, and airmen just as much as I had been on my airmen just as much as I had been on my airmen just as much as I had been on my platform. So, I'm looking forward to platform. So, I'm looking forward to platform. So, I'm looking forward to this conversation today. As of right this conversation today. As of right this conversation today. As of right now, I have a few questions set up for

2:07 now, I have a few questions set up for now, I have a few questions set up for you, but obviously we can take it where you, but obviously we can take it where you, but obviously we can take it where you want to go. But, uh, if you are you want to go. But, uh, if you are you want to go. But, uh, if you are ready, I will start off with the first ready, I will start off with the first ready, I will start off with the first question. question. question. >> I'm ready. Let's go. >> I'm ready. Let's go. >> I'm ready. Let's go. >> All right. So, your professional summary >> All right. So, your professional summary >> All right. So, your professional summary begins with the powerful line, creating

2:21 begins with the powerful line, creating begins with the powerful line, creating sustainable outcomes makes me tick. sustainable outcomes makes me tick. sustainable outcomes makes me tick. Looking back at your 25 years in the Looking back at your 25 years in the Looking back at your 25 years in the Navy, from a shipboard engineer to a Navy, from a shipboard engineer to a Navy, from a shipboard engineer to a helicopter pilot and ultimately a helicopter pilot and ultimately a helicopter pilot and ultimately a captain, what was an early experience captain, what was an early experience captain, what was an early experience that first ignited that passion for

2:36 that first ignited that passion for that first ignited that passion for driving outcomes the last? driving outcomes the last? driving outcomes the last? >> You know, that's an interesting >> You know, that's an interesting >> You know, that's an interesting question. I don't think anybody's ever question. I don't think anybody's ever question. I don't think anybody's ever put that one to me like that. Um, I put that one to me like that. Um, I put that one to me like that. Um, I think my call to service certainly think my call to service certainly think my call to service certainly preceded my time in the Navy. It's it preceded my time in the Navy. It's it

2:50 preceded my time in the Navy. It's it runs strong through our family and I runs strong through our family and I runs strong through our family and I guess uh an influential uh experience guess uh an influential uh experience guess uh an influential uh experience that I had was right before I started that I had was right before I started that I had was right before I started nth grade. My mom and I trooped over to nth grade. My mom and I trooped over to nth grade. My mom and I trooped over to my future high school and met with my my future high school and met with my my future high school and met with my guidance counselor and he looked at all guidance counselor and he looked at all

3:05 guidance counselor and he looked at all my academic achievements and clubs and my academic achievements and clubs and my academic achievements and clubs and things I had done and said, "Okay, you things I had done and said, "Okay, you things I had done and said, "Okay, you know, you're tracking towards, you know, know, you're tracking towards, you know, know, you're tracking towards, you know, advanced courses. Uh, what do you think advanced courses. Uh, what do you think advanced courses. Uh, what do you think you want to do in school?" And I said, you want to do in school?" And I said, you want to do in school?" And I said, "Well, I've looked at all the job

3:19 "Well, I've looked at all the job "Well, I've looked at all the job projections and you know, the highest projections and you know, the highest projections and you know, the highest paid jobs out there are engineers. So, I paid jobs out there are engineers. So, I paid jobs out there are engineers. So, I want to be an engineer." And uh, he want to be an engineer." And uh, he want to be an engineer." And uh, he said, "Well, how are you going to pay said, "Well, how are you going to pay said, "Well, how are you going to pay for it?" And I said, "Well, I have to for it?" And I said, "Well, I have to for it?" And I said, "Well, I have to figure that out." And he said, "Well,

3:32 figure that out." And he said, "Well, figure that out." And he said, "Well, have you considered ROTC or have you considered ROTC or have you considered ROTC or servicemies?" And I had this calling to servicemies?" And I had this calling to servicemies?" And I had this calling to be in the military, but I also wanted to be in the military, but I also wanted to be in the military, but I also wanted to go make money. And it's the first time go make money. And it's the first time go make money. And it's the first time that I realized you could merge getting that I realized you could merge getting that I realized you could merge getting your education and a pathway into the

3:46 your education and a pathway into the your education and a pathway into the military together. Because honestly, at military together. Because honestly, at military together. Because honestly, at that point, I think my concept of an that point, I think my concept of an that point, I think my concept of an Army Navy football game was some sailors Army Navy football game was some sailors Army Navy football game was some sailors and soldiers got together in a stadium and soldiers got together in a stadium and soldiers got together in a stadium and played once a year. I just wasn't and played once a year. I just wasn't and played once a year. I just wasn't all that tuned into it. And so, uh, he

3:59 all that tuned into it. And so, uh, he all that tuned into it. And so, uh, he gave me the the guide or the catalog for gave me the the guide or the catalog for gave me the the guide or the catalog for the Air Force Academy. And I took that the Air Force Academy. And I took that the Air Force Academy. And I took that home and I opened it up and folded it home and I opened it up and folded it home and I opened it up and folded it open and they had the typical cadet hats open and they had the typical cadet hats open and they had the typical cadet hats and they listed out their GPA and their and they listed out their GPA and their and they listed out their GPA and their SAT scores and their sports and all that

4:15 SAT scores and their sports and all that SAT scores and their sports and all that kind of stuff. And I just put little kind of stuff. And I just put little kind of stuff. And I just put little tick marks now next to each one of them. tick marks now next to each one of them. tick marks now next to each one of them. And I said, "Well, I've probably got And I said, "Well, I've probably got And I said, "Well, I've probably got about three and a half years to hit all about three and a half years to hit all about three and a half years to hit all that." And I just became very goal that." And I just became very goal that." And I just became very goal focused at that point in time because my

4:26 focused at that point in time because my focused at that point in time because my goal was I wanted to get into either an goal was I wanted to get into either an goal was I wanted to get into either an RTC or an academy, get my engineering RTC or an academy, get my engineering RTC or an academy, get my engineering degree, get an opportunity to to go degree, get an opportunity to to go degree, get an opportunity to to go serve and hopefully fly and then see serve and hopefully fly and then see serve and hopefully fly and then see where that took me. And uh so that was where that took me. And uh so that was where that took me. And uh so that was the beginning of setting goals and

4:42 the beginning of setting goals and the beginning of setting goals and building myself towards something. And I building myself towards something. And I building myself towards something. And I think that was a foundational piece of think that was a foundational piece of think that was a foundational piece of later experiences that that taught me later experiences that that taught me later experiences that that taught me how to lead and to lead others to how to lead and to lead others to how to lead and to lead others to achieve different goals and grow things. achieve different goals and grow things. achieve different goals and grow things. >> And you knew you knew by ninth grade

4:56 >> And you knew you knew by ninth grade >> And you knew you knew by ninth grade this is something you were interested this is something you were interested this is something you were interested in. in. in. >> Absolutely. Yeah. And so I started down >> Absolutely. Yeah. And so I started down >> Absolutely. Yeah. And so I started down the path towards the Air Force Academy the path towards the Air Force Academy the path towards the Air Force Academy even though most of my family had served even though most of my family had served even though most of my family had served in primarily Navy, some Army, and a in primarily Navy, some Army, and a

5:07 in primarily Navy, some Army, and a little bit of Air Force. But um it little bit of Air Force. But um it little bit of Air Force. But um it wasn't until after 9th grade I moved and wasn't until after 9th grade I moved and wasn't until after 9th grade I moved and went to a different high school closer went to a different high school closer went to a different high school closer to the coast in California and I was a to the coast in California and I was a to the coast in California and I was a cross country runner and we had a bunch cross country runner and we had a bunch cross country runner and we had a bunch of guys on the cross country team that of guys on the cross country team that

5:21 of guys on the cross country team that were interested in going to fly for the were interested in going to fly for the were interested in going to fly for the Navy and so they they worked on me for Navy and so they they worked on me for Navy and so they they worked on me for about a year and then Top Gun came out about a year and then Top Gun came out about a year and then Top Gun came out and uh you know the rest is history. I and uh you know the rest is history. I and uh you know the rest is history. I ended up becoming a Navy pilot. ended up becoming a Navy pilot. ended up becoming a Navy pilot. >> So you moving out to California you know >> So you moving out to California you know

5:34 >> So you moving out to California you know you started this in ninth grade. Where you started this in ninth grade. Where you started this in ninth grade. Where did you grow up before you went to did you grow up before you went to did you grow up before you went to California? California? California? >> So, I lived in East Texas predominantly >> So, I lived in East Texas predominantly >> So, I lived in East Texas predominantly until halfway through third grade and until halfway through third grade and until halfway through third grade and then we moved to San Diego and around a then we moved to San Diego and around a then we moved to San Diego and around a couple different locations in San Diego. couple different locations in San Diego. couple different locations in San Diego. So, that was third grade through 9th

5:51 So, that was third grade through 9th So, that was third grade through 9th grade was predominantly south in in East grade was predominantly south in in East grade was predominantly south in in East County. And then we moved in, like I County. And then we moved in, like I County. And then we moved in, like I said, a little bit closer to the the said, a little bit closer to the the said, a little bit closer to the the inland or inland beach area and in a

06:00 Engineering, Helicopters, and the Pentagon

6:01 inland or inland beach area and in a inland or inland beach area and in a town called La Mesa. That's where it was town called La Mesa. That's where it was town called La Mesa. That's where it was very heavy Navy once you got over the very heavy Navy once you got over the very heavy Navy once you got over the hills there. hills there. hills there. >> So was your family in the service or >> So was your family in the service or >> So was your family in the service or what was the moving around just from so what was the moving around just from so what was the moving around just from so it was service? What were your what were it was service? What were your what were it was service? What were your what were your parents doing in service? your parents doing in service? your parents doing in service? >> So my grandfathers were Navy from uh

6:16 >> So my grandfathers were Navy from uh >> So my grandfathers were Navy from uh they were enlisted from World War II to they were enlisted from World War II to they were enlisted from World War II to Vietnam and my parents met while they Vietnam and my parents met while they Vietnam and my parents met while they were still young and um they got married were still young and um they got married were still young and um they got married and had me and my grandfathers started and had me and my grandfathers started and had me and my grandfathers started to retire. But I think the as the to retire. But I think the as the to retire. But I think the as the families continued to still move at the

6:31 families continued to still move at the families continued to still move at the end of their active duty time, my my end of their active duty time, my my end of their active duty time, my my parents found themselves in Key West, parents found themselves in Key West, parents found themselves in Key West, Florida with a baby and no family. So Florida with a baby and no family. So Florida with a baby and no family. So off to Dallas, Texas for a few years so off to Dallas, Texas for a few years so off to Dallas, Texas for a few years so that my father could get his education that my father could get his education that my father could get his education and then uh ended up like I said down in

6:44 and then uh ended up like I said down in and then uh ended up like I said down in in Southeast Texas for a while and then in Southeast Texas for a while and then in Southeast Texas for a while and then I think it was just a little bit in the I think it was just a little bit in the I think it was just a little bit in the blood. My mom had graduated from high blood. My mom had graduated from high blood. My mom had graduated from high school in San Diego and really wanted to school in San Diego and really wanted to school in San Diego and really wanted to go back there so she took us back there. go back there so she took us back there. go back there so she took us back there. Yeah, part of it was uh part of it was

6:58 Yeah, part of it was uh part of it was Yeah, part of it was uh part of it was the reality of our financials as well. the reality of our financials as well. the reality of our financials as well. You know, we didn't have a whole lot of You know, we didn't have a whole lot of You know, we didn't have a whole lot of uh means and so we kind of moved where uh means and so we kind of moved where uh means and so we kind of moved where we felt like there was opportunities. I we felt like there was opportunities. I we felt like there was opportunities. I gotcha. So, you were a commanding gotcha. So, you were a commanding gotcha. So, you were a commanding officer of a helicopter squadron. You

7:11 officer of a helicopter squadron. You officer of a helicopter squadron. You faced a perfect storm. 73% increase in faced a perfect storm. 73% increase in faced a perfect storm. 73% increase in demand, 58 increase 58% increase in demand, 58 increase 58% increase in demand, 58 increase 58% increase in assets, and an emergency deployment to assets, and an emergency deployment to assets, and an emergency deployment to support the Haiti earthquake relief. Can support the Haiti earthquake relief. Can support the Haiti earthquake relief. Can you take us inside that command and you take us inside that command and you take us inside that command and share a story that illustrates your

7:28 share a story that illustrates your share a story that illustrates your philosophy on leading a high performance philosophy on leading a high performance philosophy on leading a high performance team through intense sustained pressure? team through intense sustained pressure? team through intense sustained pressure? Yeah, that those were such fascinating Yeah, that those were such fascinating Yeah, that those were such fascinating times. I was blessed that I was leading times. I was blessed that I was leading times. I was blessed that I was leading a squadron that had already made the a squadron that had already made the a squadron that had already made the transition to the new H60 Sierra. Uh we

7:47 transition to the new H60 Sierra. Uh we transition to the new H60 Sierra. Uh we had had a series of great commanding had had a series of great commanding had had a series of great commanding officers and a good team. But some of officers and a good team. But some of officers and a good team. But some of our real challenges were around the fact our real challenges were around the fact our real challenges were around the fact that as the fleet training squadron, we that as the fleet training squadron, we that as the fleet training squadron, we received brand new aircraft off the received brand new aircraft off the received brand new aircraft off the flight line with the upgraded software

8:02 flight line with the upgraded software flight line with the upgraded software that we were only ones authorized to fly that we were only ones authorized to fly that we were only ones authorized to fly initially. But we had to accept these initially. But we had to accept these initially. But we had to accept these new aircraft, fly them for a certain new aircraft, fly them for a certain new aircraft, fly them for a certain amount of time, train people in them amount of time, train people in them amount of time, train people in them until the rest of the fleet was until the rest of the fleet was until the rest of the fleet was authorized, and then transfer those

8:15 authorized, and then transfer those authorized, and then transfer those aircraft to fleet squadrons in return aircraft to fleet squadrons in return aircraft to fleet squadrons in return for aircraft who had already been used for aircraft who had already been used for aircraft who had already been used and in many cases needed some pretty and in many cases needed some pretty and in many cases needed some pretty heavy maintenance. So that could be a heavy maintenance. So that could be a heavy maintenance. So that could be a little bit demoralizing for your little bit demoralizing for your little bit demoralizing for your maintenance force, which is the lion

8:28 maintenance force, which is the lion maintenance force, which is the lion share of of our operation. And we were share of of our operation. And we were share of of our operation. And we were also the training center for new sailors also the training center for new sailors also the training center for new sailors that were coming in. So we would receive that were coming in. So we would receive that were coming in. So we would receive them, get them oriented and basic them, get them oriented and basic them, get them oriented and basic qualified and then send them out to qualified and then send them out to qualified and then send them out to fleet squadrons as well to go deployed.

8:43 fleet squadrons as well to go deployed. fleet squadrons as well to go deployed. So we really were generating both So we really were generating both So we really were generating both aircraft and personnel for the fleet and aircraft and personnel for the fleet and aircraft and personnel for the fleet and doing it on the backs of a fairly small doing it on the backs of a fairly small doing it on the backs of a fairly small workforce. And so that compounded by the workforce. And so that compounded by the workforce. And so that compounded by the challenges with the the earthquake and challenges with the the earthquake and challenges with the the earthquake and the fact that we weren't even a seagoing

9:00 the fact that we weren't even a seagoing the fact that we weren't even a seagoing unit but were ordered to send a unit but were ordered to send a unit but were ordered to send a detachment to sea which you could only detachment to sea which you could only detachment to sea which you could only send qualified pilots and most of our send qualified pilots and most of our send qualified pilots and most of our students were not qualified. So we had students were not qualified. So we had students were not qualified. So we had very few instructors left. We had people very few instructors left. We had people very few instructors left. We had people out at sea doing missions that they were

9:14 out at sea doing missions that they were out at sea doing missions that they were obviously qualified for but not obviously qualified for but not obviously qualified for but not expecting to do. So just a lot of expecting to do. So just a lot of expecting to do. So just a lot of hurdles in how we communicated, how we hurdles in how we communicated, how we hurdles in how we communicated, how we reported, how we managed those teams, reported, how we managed those teams, reported, how we managed those teams, and how we made up for some of those and how we made up for some of those and how we made up for some of those challenges. But I had experienced

9:27 challenges. But I had experienced challenges. But I had experienced something similar when I was a something similar when I was a something similar when I was a lieutenant uh out in San Diego at the lieutenant uh out in San Diego at the lieutenant uh out in San Diego at the first squadron to receive those H60s. first squadron to receive those H60s. first squadron to receive those H60s. And due to many delays in the And due to many delays in the And due to many delays in the authorizations to finally implement authorizations to finally implement authorizations to finally implement training and and fly and deliver those training and and fly and deliver those

9:39 training and and fly and deliver those to the fleet, we ended up doing a whole to the fleet, we ended up doing a whole to the fleet, we ended up doing a whole year's production in seven months. And year's production in seven months. And year's production in seven months. And so working through those challenges, so working through those challenges, so working through those challenges, maximizing efficiencies, keeping up the maximizing efficiencies, keeping up the maximizing efficiencies, keeping up the morale, and understanding what your goal morale, and understanding what your goal morale, and understanding what your goal was was a very similar process that I

9:53 was was a very similar process that I was was a very similar process that I was able to, I think, bring in and tell was able to, I think, bring in and tell was able to, I think, bring in and tell the troops, look, you know, this is the troops, look, you know, this is the troops, look, you know, this is important. It's it's important in the important. It's it's important in the important. It's it's important in the real world mission. It's important to real world mission. It's important to real world mission. It's important to support the other units that are going support the other units that are going support the other units that are going out there and doing their deployments

10:03 out there and doing their deployments out there and doing their deployments and missions. And uh it's just our job. and missions. And uh it's just our job. and missions. And uh it's just our job. and blessed again with great people, and blessed again with great people, and blessed again with great people, great leaders who understood that great leaders who understood that great leaders who understood that message and were willing to roll up message and were willing to roll up message and were willing to roll up their sleeves and and get it done on a their sleeves and and get it done on a their sleeves and and get it done on a daily basis. daily basis. daily basis. >> I'm willing to bet that a lot of people >> I'm willing to bet that a lot of people >> I'm willing to bet that a lot of people that are listening don't even they

10:17 that are listening don't even they that are listening don't even they couldn't even point out Haiti on a map. couldn't even point out Haiti on a map. couldn't even point out Haiti on a map. Can you can you describe its location Can you can you describe its location Can you can you describe its location and what it was like for the people and what it was like for the people and what it was like for the people there that that suffered from this there that that suffered from this there that that suffered from this earthquake? earthquake? earthquake? >> Yeah, I stayed at home because I still >> Yeah, I stayed at home because I still >> Yeah, I stayed at home because I still had to make sure that all those things had to make sure that all those things had to make sure that all those things were getting done. So, one of my were getting done. So, one of my

10:33 were getting done. So, one of my department heads led the detachment and department heads led the detachment and department heads led the detachment and he did a great job taking that team out he did a great job taking that team out he did a great job taking that team out there. But, uh, yeah, Haiti is southeast there. But, uh, yeah, Haiti is southeast there. But, uh, yeah, Haiti is southeast of the United States. It is a very poor of the United States. It is a very poor of the United States. It is a very poor nation and has a lot of challenges still nation and has a lot of challenges still nation and has a lot of challenges still culturally from their days as a slave

10:51 culturally from their days as a slave culturally from their days as a slave uh, nation and the destruction of the u uh, nation and the destruction of the u uh, nation and the destruction of the u earthquake that what that caused made earthquake that what that caused made earthquake that what that caused made life that much more miserable. And so, life that much more miserable. And so, life that much more miserable. And so, United States Navy, military and other United States Navy, military and other United States Navy, military and other NOS's, etc. were able to come in fairly NOS's, etc. were able to come in fairly NOS's, etc. were able to come in fairly quickly, stabilize the situation with

11:09 quickly, stabilize the situation with quickly, stabilize the situation with food and water and medical care, food and water and medical care, food and water and medical care, evacuation, those sorts of things to evacuation, those sorts of things to evacuation, those sorts of things to give the people hope. This is not an give the people hope. This is not an give the people hope. This is not an unusual mission by any means. Uh, you unusual mission by any means. Uh, you unusual mission by any means. Uh, you know, anybody who's served in the know, anybody who's served in the know, anybody who's served in the military's probably participated either military's probably participated either military's probably participated either at home in something like a Katrina or a at home in something like a Katrina or a at home in something like a Katrina or a Harvey or overseas. Uh when I was doing

11:26 Harvey or overseas. Uh when I was doing Harvey or overseas. Uh when I was doing my department head tour in Guam, we my department head tour in Guam, we my department head tour in Guam, we pushed everything that we had over to pushed everything that we had over to pushed everything that we had over to Indonesia after the tsunami where over Indonesia after the tsunami where over Indonesia after the tsunami where over well over 100,000 people were killed by well over 100,000 people were killed by well over 100,000 people were killed by that tsunami. And you just have to uh that tsunami. And you just have to uh that tsunami. And you just have to uh use your tools, your training, and your

11:39 use your tools, your training, and your use your tools, your training, and your teamwork to go in there and respond as teamwork to go in there and respond as teamwork to go in there and respond as quickly as you can and try to help as quickly as you can and try to help as quickly as you can and try to help as many people as possible. So I think even many people as possible. So I think even many people as possible. So I think even though it was a terrible situation, the though it was a terrible situation, the though it was a terrible situation, the opportunity to do a real world mission opportunity to do a real world mission opportunity to do a real world mission like that really inspired the team as

11:54 like that really inspired the team as like that really inspired the team as well. And um it it feels good when you well. And um it it feels good when you well. And um it it feels good when you get an opportunity to go out there and get an opportunity to go out there and get an opportunity to go out there and and help people. and help people. and help people. >> Yeah. I think about it similar to Puerto >> Yeah. I think about it similar to Puerto >> Yeah. I think about it similar to Puerto Rico. We had this devastating hurricane Rico. We had this devastating hurricane Rico. We had this devastating hurricane and everybody saw the damage and they

12:07 and everybody saw the damage and they and everybody saw the damage and they don't even realize that, you know, just don't even realize that, you know, just don't even realize that, you know, just a couple islands over Haiti, you know, a couple islands over Haiti, you know, a couple islands over Haiti, you know, sharing the island with Dominican sharing the island with Dominican sharing the island with Dominican Republic. Their infrastructure is Republic. Their infrastructure is Republic. Their infrastructure is non-existent. So, I mean, my goodness, non-existent. So, I mean, my goodness, non-existent. So, I mean, my goodness, they I don't even know how many people

12:19 they I don't even know how many people they I don't even know how many people had running water there to begin with had running water there to begin with had running water there to begin with before this hurricane even hit. So, I before this hurricane even hit. So, I before this hurricane even hit. So, I just encourage people to look it up. just encourage people to look it up. just encourage people to look it up. Look at Haiti and look at that Look at Haiti and look at that Look at Haiti and look at that devastation and realize that uh there devastation and realize that uh there devastation and realize that uh there are poor nations so close to our borders

12:30 are poor nations so close to our borders are poor nations so close to our borders that we don't we don't realize. You that we don't we don't realize. You that we don't we don't realize. You know, I would add too while people are know, I would add too while people are know, I would add too while people are looking things up, you can probably looking things up, you can probably looking things up, you can probably Google Haiti from space. I don't know if Google Haiti from space. I don't know if Google Haiti from space. I don't know if you've ever seen those night images, but you've ever seen those night images, but you've ever seen those night images, but there's a almost direct line between the

12:45 there's a almost direct line between the there's a almost direct line between the well-lit Dominican Republican side of well-lit Dominican Republican side of well-lit Dominican Republican side of the island and the Haiti side of the the island and the Haiti side of the the island and the Haiti side of the island, which is almost completely dark island, which is almost completely dark island, which is almost completely dark at night. Okay, I will have to look that at night. Okay, I will have to look that at night. Okay, I will have to look that up. up. up. >> Yeah, because I I've seen that with >> Yeah, because I I've seen that with >> Yeah, because I I've seen that with North Korea and South Korea, but I have

12:57 North Korea and South Korea, but I have North Korea and South Korea, but I have not looked that up for Haiti. So, I will not looked that up for Haiti. So, I will not looked that up for Haiti. So, I will definitely do that. definitely do that. definitely do that. >> So, my next question for you, you >> So, my next question for you, you >> So, my next question for you, you transition from the hands-on world of transition from the hands-on world of transition from the hands-on world of flying H60s to the strategic environment flying H60s to the strategic environment flying H60s to the strategic environment of the Pentagon, serving as a

13:09 of the Pentagon, serving as a of the Pentagon, serving as a requirements officer for those same requirements officer for those same requirements officer for those same aircraft. How did your operational aircraft. How did your operational aircraft. How did your operational experience as a pilot inform your work experience as a pilot inform your work experience as a pilot inform your work in shaping the future of naval air in shaping the future of naval air in shaping the future of naval air warfare and managing its budget? Well, warfare and managing its budget? Well, warfare and managing its budget? Well, that seat is a it's, you know, one deep that seat is a it's, you know, one deep that seat is a it's, you know, one deep position that every community in naval position that every community in naval position that every community in naval aviation sends a representative to. So,

13:30 aviation sends a representative to. So, aviation sends a representative to. So, you you're sitting in a a big room in you you're sitting in a a big room in you you're sitting in a a big room in the Pentagon called the ranch, N98, the Pentagon called the ranch, N98, the Pentagon called the ranch, N98, which is the air warfare center, and which is the air warfare center, and which is the air warfare center, and you've got representatives of every type you've got representatives of every type you've got representatives of every type of helicopter, every type of fighter, of helicopter, every type of fighter, of helicopter, every type of fighter, the aircraft community, uh the aircraft

13:44 the aircraft community, uh the aircraft the aircraft community, uh the aircraft carriers, the budgeting, the Marine carriers, the budgeting, the Marine carriers, the budgeting, the Marine Corps aircraft representatives, they're Corps aircraft representatives, they're Corps aircraft representatives, they're all in this big space. And the it's a all in this big space. And the it's a all in this big space. And the it's a very wardroom like feel. Everybody goes very wardroom like feel. Everybody goes very wardroom like feel. Everybody goes by call signs and everybody gets along by call signs and everybody gets along by call signs and everybody gets along and tells stories about what they've

13:59 and tells stories about what they've and tells stories about what they've done out in the fleet. But at the same done out in the fleet. But at the same done out in the fleet. But at the same time, these are hyper alpha competitive time, these are hyper alpha competitive time, these are hyper alpha competitive people who are trying to improve the people who are trying to improve the people who are trying to improve the quality of their platform and their quality of their platform and their quality of their platform and their people. And so there's a constant people. And so there's a constant people. And so there's a constant tension between how you represent your

14:17 tension between how you represent your tension between how you represent your community and what you're trying to community and what you're trying to community and what you're trying to achieve to ensure that you have the re achieve to ensure that you have the re achieve to ensure that you have the re resources to buy the number of aircraft resources to buy the number of aircraft resources to buy the number of aircraft you need to upgrade those aircraft with you need to upgrade those aircraft with you need to upgrade those aircraft with new engines and sensors and weapons and new engines and sensors and weapons and new engines and sensors and weapons and to make sure that you have the right

14:31 to make sure that you have the right to make sure that you have the right plans in place and they're coordinated plans in place and they're coordinated plans in place and they're coordinated with other entities both to um ensure with other entities both to um ensure with other entities both to um ensure that there's good integration out in the that there's good integration out in the that there's good integration out in the fleet but then get the many voices and fleet but then get the many voices and fleet but then get the many voices and votes that come in from combatant votes that come in from combatant votes that come in from combatant commanders, uh, from fleet forces, air

14:46 commanders, uh, from fleet forces, air commanders, uh, from fleet forces, air forces, all community, commodors, etc. forces, all community, commodors, etc. forces, all community, commodors, etc. So, it is a really fascinating perch to So, it is a really fascinating perch to So, it is a really fascinating perch to be in and you you have a pretty undue be in and you you have a pretty undue be in and you you have a pretty undue influence on the direction that your influence on the direction that your influence on the direction that your community will take from the perspective community will take from the perspective community will take from the perspective of being represented in the Pentagon

15:00 The Day Someone Said Your Skills Won't Translate

15:02 of being represented in the Pentagon of being represented in the Pentagon where the resourcing decisions are made. where the resourcing decisions are made. where the resourcing decisions are made. So you really find yourself a lot of So you really find yourself a lot of So you really find yourself a lot of times thinking about if I have $1 to times thinking about if I have $1 to times thinking about if I have $1 to represent, do I spend it on this upgrade represent, do I spend it on this upgrade represent, do I spend it on this upgrade or that upgrade or this training thing or that upgrade or this training thing or that upgrade or this training thing or whatever that is. And that's really

15:20 or whatever that is. And that's really or whatever that is. And that's really where you draw on your own individual where you draw on your own individual where you draw on your own individual experiences in the fleet, your experiences in the fleet, your experiences in the fleet, your perspective leading an organization like perspective leading an organization like perspective leading an organization like the Fleet Angels. And then uh you the Fleet Angels. And then uh you the Fleet Angels. And then uh you develop completely different skills develop completely different skills develop completely different skills because typically in tactical units in

15:34 because typically in tactical units in because typically in tactical units in the military, as you know, you're e the military, as you know, you're e the military, as you know, you're e you're leading up or you're leading you're leading up or you're leading you're leading up or you're leading down. And then you've got peer down. And then you've got peer down. And then you've got peer leadership, but it's not the same when leadership, but it's not the same when leadership, but it's not the same when you're flying next to somebody as it is you're flying next to somebody as it is you're flying next to somebody as it is working with somebody in a different

15:45 working with somebody in a different working with somebody in a different entity in the Pentagon that has entity in the Pentagon that has entity in the Pentagon that has different purposes and different different purposes and different different purposes and different perspectives than you do. And so you perspectives than you do. And so you perspectives than you do. And so you learn very quickly who you can kind of learn very quickly who you can kind of learn very quickly who you can kind of trust and work with to get your message trust and work with to get your message trust and work with to get your message and your desires uh resolved and and

16:00 and your desires uh resolved and and and your desires uh resolved and and who's perhaps out to get your resources who's perhaps out to get your resources who's perhaps out to get your resources from. from. from. I'm glad you bring up resources and how I'm glad you bring up resources and how I'm glad you bring up resources and how competitive it is because if you watch competitive it is because if you watch competitive it is because if you watch the news, you think, "Oh, we have a $850 the news, you think, "Oh, we have a $850 the news, you think, "Oh, we have a $850 billion budget. We should be able to buy billion budget. We should be able to buy billion budget. We should be able to buy whatever we want." People don't realize whatever we want." People don't realize whatever we want." People don't realize how much of that is tied up into

16:18 how much of that is tied up into how much of that is tied up into personnel costs, fuel costs, uh personnel costs, fuel costs, uh personnel costs, fuel costs, uh maintenance on um aging weapon systems. maintenance on um aging weapon systems. maintenance on um aging weapon systems. It's not just this blank checkbook that It's not just this blank checkbook that It's not just this blank checkbook that you walk in every year and start spend you walk in every year and start spend you walk in every year and start spend spending $850 billion on. spending $850 billion on. spending $850 billion on. It is it's very It is it's very It is it's very >> it is indeed and and you know the

16:37 >> it is indeed and and you know the >> it is indeed and and you know the complexities of the bases and our allies complexities of the bases and our allies complexities of the bases and our allies and the technology development and the technology development and the technology development commitments that we make across you know commitments that we make across you know commitments that we make across you know not just within DoD but with our not just within DoD but with our not just within DoD but with our research centers and our academic research centers and our academic research centers and our academic partners and um there's all kinds of

16:53 partners and um there's all kinds of partners and um there's all kinds of medical research and things that that medical research and things that that medical research and things that that have to get done. And I've heard this have to get done. And I've heard this have to get done. And I've heard this and I've seen it in practice that um a and I've seen it in practice that um a and I've seen it in practice that um a lot of items that need to get done for lot of items that need to get done for lot of items that need to get done for the country end up getting put into the the country end up getting put into the the country end up getting put into the defense budget by Congress because they

17:07 defense budget by Congress because they defense budget by Congress because they know that's a way that they can know that's a way that they can know that's a way that they can guarantee it's going to get done. guarantee it's going to get done. guarantee it's going to get done. >> That exact situation happened when I was >> That exact situation happened when I was >> That exact situation happened when I was in legislative affairs working in legislative affairs working in legislative affairs working acquisition sustainment. Uh Congress acquisition sustainment. Uh Congress acquisition sustainment. Uh Congress told us we're going to have you run some

17:19 told us we're going to have you run some told us we're going to have you run some supply chain management for supply chain management for supply chain management for pharmaceuticals. Like wait a second, pharmaceuticals. Like wait a second, pharmaceuticals. Like wait a second, we're not the FDA. I mean, why why are we're not the FDA. I mean, why why are we're not the FDA. I mean, why why are we doing this? And they and they said we doing this? And they and they said we doing this? And they and they said quite frankly, well, Mike, we know that quite frankly, well, Mike, we know that quite frankly, well, Mike, we know that the DoD budget, you guys will actually

17:33 the DoD budget, you guys will actually the DoD budget, you guys will actually execute and do what we ask you to. And I execute and do what we ask you to. And I execute and do what we ask you to. And I thought, wow, we just get thrown thought, wow, we just get thrown thought, wow, we just get thrown everything. And people just think $850 everything. And people just think $850 everything. And people just think $850 billion, you guys are rich. And it's billion, you guys are rich. And it's billion, you guys are rich. And it's really not the case. really not the case. really not the case. >> Well, that's a great example. You >> Well, that's a great example. You

17:45 >> Well, that's a great example. You validated my my theory. validated my my theory. validated my my theory. >> Yeah. And this just happened, you know, >> Yeah. And this just happened, you know, >> Yeah. And this just happened, you know, a a year a year and a half ago. So, I I a a year a year and a half ago. So, I I a a year a year and a half ago. So, I I feel your pain even though I was in that feel your pain even though I was in that feel your pain even though I was in that building after you. building after you. building after you. So I was I found it interesting about So I was I found it interesting about So I was I found it interesting about your uh your National War College your uh your National War College your uh your National War College experience. So I went to Eisenhower here experience. So I went to Eisenhower here

18:02 experience. So I went to Eisenhower here at Fort McNair. Loved it. Wonderful at Fort McNair. Loved it. Wonderful at Fort McNair. Loved it. Wonderful experience. But you competed for a very experience. But you competed for a very experience. But you competed for a very special position and it was with Shell special position and it was with Shell special position and it was with Shell Oil. Please share with us how a Navy guy Oil. Please share with us how a Navy guy Oil. Please share with us how a Navy guy who's a helicopter pilot gets to go work who's a helicopter pilot gets to go work who's a helicopter pilot gets to go work for Shell Oil. What was that experience

18:19 for Shell Oil. What was that experience for Shell Oil. What was that experience like? like? like? >> Oh, it was amazing. Um, I had done my >> Oh, it was amazing. Um, I had done my >> Oh, it was amazing. Um, I had done my two years in the Pentagon and I had the two years in the Pentagon and I had the two years in the Pentagon and I had the opportunity uh to serve as the executive opportunity uh to serve as the executive opportunity uh to serve as the executive assistant for N98 himself at that time, assistant for N98 himself at that time, assistant for N98 himself at that time, Rear Admiral Bill Moran. And uh, he was Rear Admiral Bill Moran. And uh, he was Rear Admiral Bill Moran. And uh, he was starting to help line me up for what was

18:36 starting to help line me up for what was starting to help line me up for what was going to come next because I was still going to come next because I was still going to come next because I was still too junior for my '06 command board. And too junior for my '06 command board. And too junior for my '06 command board. And uh, he said, "Hey, I've got got this and uh, he said, "Hey, I've got got this and uh, he said, "Hey, I've got got this and this option or are you interested in this option or are you interested in this option or are you interested in these?" And I said, "Oh, hell no. I'm these?" And I said, "Oh, hell no. I'm these?" And I said, "Oh, hell no. I'm nothing. I got to get out of this

18:49 nothing. I got to get out of this nothing. I got to get out of this building. I've done my two years. I building. I've done my two years. I building. I've done my two years. I never wanted to come here. It's been a never wanted to come here. It's been a never wanted to come here. It's been a great experience. I I think working for great experience. I I think working for great experience. I I think working for you is amazing, sir, but uh no, I need you is amazing, sir, but uh no, I need you is amazing, sir, but uh no, I need to go do something else. And he paused to go do something else. And he paused to go do something else. And he paused and he looked at the looked at the

19:00 and he looked at the looked at the and he looked at the looked at the window a little bit and he's like, window a little bit and he's like, window a little bit and he's like, "Well, what do you want to do?" And I "Well, what do you want to do?" And I "Well, what do you want to do?" And I said, "Well, I'd really love to go do a said, "Well, I'd really love to go do a said, "Well, I'd really love to go do a legislative fellowship on the hill, but legislative fellowship on the hill, but legislative fellowship on the hill, but I'm a little over the hill for that, so I'm a little over the hill for that, so I'm a little over the hill for that, so to speak." You know, those are typically

19:10 to speak." You know, those are typically to speak." You know, those are typically for younger officers. I said, "Um, so for younger officers. I said, "Um, so for younger officers. I said, "Um, so I've done some poking around and there's I've done some poking around and there's I've done some poking around and there's these, uh, federal executive fellowships these, uh, federal executive fellowships these, uh, federal executive fellowships where you can go to a university or a where you can go to a university or a where you can go to a university or a think tank or something like that, and think tank or something like that, and think tank or something like that, and then there's this corporate fellowship

19:24 then there's this corporate fellowship then there's this corporate fellowship where you get assigned out into a a where you get assigned out into a a where you get assigned out into a a company for a year." I said, "I'd be company for a year." I said, "I'd be company for a year." I said, "I'd be interested in something like that." And interested in something like that." And interested in something like that." And so, uh, he wrote me a letter of so, uh, he wrote me a letter of so, uh, he wrote me a letter of recommendation. I applied and and I got recommendation. I applied and and I got recommendation. I applied and and I got selected as a SEC def fellow. uh they

19:35 selected as a SEC def fellow. uh they selected as a SEC def fellow. uh they send I think two line officers per send I think two line officers per send I think two line officers per service and then they also add on service and then they also add on service and then they also add on acquisition and guard folks to it. So acquisition and guard folks to it. So acquisition and guard folks to it. So each year changes a little bit in uh in each year changes a little bit in uh in each year changes a little bit in uh in total size but I think when I did it total size but I think when I did it total size but I think when I did it there was 12 of us. Um, we go through a

19:53 there was 12 of us. Um, we go through a there was 12 of us. Um, we go through a a little bit of a summer intensive in a little bit of a summer intensive in a little bit of a summer intensive in the DC area at CSBA, one of the think the DC area at CSBA, one of the think the DC area at CSBA, one of the think tanks, followed by some visits to the tanks, followed by some visits to the tanks, followed by some visits to the building to engage key leaders and get building to engage key leaders and get building to engage key leaders and get some some words of wisdom before we some some words of wisdom before we some some words of wisdom before we depart for the year, some time on the

20:07 depart for the year, some time on the depart for the year, some time on the hill, that sort of thing. And then a ye hill, that sort of thing. And then a ye hill, that sort of thing. And then a ye a week down at University of Virginia a week down at University of Virginia a week down at University of Virginia Darden Business School where we really Darden Business School where we really Darden Business School where we really kind of sharpen our pencils on the kind of sharpen our pencils on the kind of sharpen our pencils on the businesses that we're actually going to businesses that we're actually going to businesses that we're actually going to be going to. So, you get to learn how to

20:19 be going to. So, you get to learn how to be going to. So, you get to learn how to interpret a public uh filing and interpret a public uh filing and interpret a public uh filing and understand the financials and the understand the financials and the understand the financials and the strategy of your business. And then they strategy of your business. And then they strategy of your business. And then they uh they move you off to these different uh they move you off to these different uh they move you off to these different companies all all over the country. And companies all all over the country. And companies all all over the country. And you're still a military officer, but you

20:33 you're still a military officer, but you you're still a military officer, but you get some special permissions to be able get some special permissions to be able get some special permissions to be able to participate at an executive level, to participate at an executive level, to participate at an executive level, wear civilian clothes, live on the wear civilian clothes, live on the wear civilian clothes, live on the economy, make your own schedule, and uh economy, make your own schedule, and uh economy, make your own schedule, and uh and that's your assignment for the year. and that's your assignment for the year. and that's your assignment for the year. And you have a couple of deliverables.

20:46 And you have a couple of deliverables. And you have a couple of deliverables. There's a mid-year checkpoint back at There's a mid-year checkpoint back at There's a mid-year checkpoint back at the Pentagon and then there is an the Pentagon and then there is an the Pentagon and then there is an endofear report deliverable and you get endofear report deliverable and you get endofear report deliverable and you get to put together what we call a company to put together what we call a company to put together what we call a company day and the company days involve day and the company days involve day and the company days involve bringing other fellows and their

20:59 bringing other fellows and their bringing other fellows and their sponsors and executives to your site and sponsors and executives to your site and sponsors and executives to your site and giving them a deep dive for anywhere giving them a deep dive for anywhere giving them a deep dive for anywhere from one to sometimes three days from one to sometimes three days from one to sometimes three days depending on the complexity and the depending on the complexity and the depending on the complexity and the situation. And uh so I was able to host situation. And uh so I was able to host situation. And uh so I was able to host a Shell centered uh company day towards

21:13 a Shell centered uh company day towards a Shell centered uh company day towards the end of my year that Phil is a major the end of my year that Phil is a major the end of my year that Phil is a major sponsor of the Jazzfest in New Orleans. sponsor of the Jazzfest in New Orleans. sponsor of the Jazzfest in New Orleans. And so we brought folks in. We had a And so we brought folks in. We had a And so we brought folks in. We had a reception at the World War II Museum. We reception at the World War II Museum. We reception at the World War II Museum. We got to go in and meet the leadership got to go in and meet the leadership got to go in and meet the leadership team of Shell Deep Water. We got to

21:28 team of Shell Deep Water. We got to team of Shell Deep Water. We got to explore their technologies and their explore their technologies and their explore their technologies and their training processes and understand how training processes and understand how training processes and understand how they go explore and extract oil and the they go explore and extract oil and the they go explore and extract oil and the commonalities that they face from a commonalities that they face from a commonalities that they face from a challenge perspective of austere challenge perspective of austere challenge perspective of austere operating environments very public image

21:42 operating environments very public image operating environments very public image um challenges if things go south. Um and um challenges if things go south. Um and um challenges if things go south. Um and so a great learning opportunity and I so a great learning opportunity and I so a great learning opportunity and I got the opportunity to meet Elon Musk at got the opportunity to meet Elon Musk at got the opportunity to meet Elon Musk at SpaceX. I got to go to Microsoft and SpaceX. I got to go to Microsoft and SpaceX. I got to go to Microsoft and Norfick Southern Railroad and BM and Norfick Southern Railroad and BM and Norfick Southern Railroad and BM and Morgan Stanley in New York City. So

21:57 Morgan Stanley in New York City. So Morgan Stanley in New York City. So really neat exposure and then the the really neat exposure and then the the really neat exposure and then the the theory of it is you take those lessons theory of it is you take those lessons theory of it is you take those lessons back and you help bring new ideas and back and you help bring new ideas and back and you help bring new ideas and and broaden the network for DoD in that. and broaden the network for DoD in that. and broaden the network for DoD in that. So that was an amazing experience. So that was an amazing experience. So that was an amazing experience. >> Culturally, how similar or how different

22:13 >> Culturally, how similar or how different >> Culturally, how similar or how different was it working in uh Shell Oil for that was it working in uh Shell Oil for that was it working in uh Shell Oil for that year versus being in the service? So I year versus being in the service? So I year versus being in the service? So I was nested inside the North American was nested inside the North American was nested inside the North American logistics team and that team supported logistics team and that team supported logistics team and that team supported each of the different main business each of the different main business each of the different main business units, deep water, unconventionals,

22:30 units, deep water, unconventionals, units, deep water, unconventionals, um, and drilling etc. And so I got to um, and drilling etc. And so I got to um, and drilling etc. And so I got to talk to the people both within logistics talk to the people both within logistics talk to the people both within logistics and then get to know each of those and then get to know each of those and then get to know each of those different business units. Most of I'd different business units. Most of I'd different business units. Most of I'd say 50ish% of the people in that say 50ish% of the people in that say 50ish% of the people in that logistics group were prior military. And

22:49 logistics group were prior military. And logistics group were prior military. And so it felt very comfortable from the so it felt very comfortable from the so it felt very comfortable from the perspective of the culture and the type perspective of the culture and the type perspective of the culture and the type of people I was surrounded by and their of people I was surrounded by and their of people I was surrounded by and their willingness to help and appreciate what willingness to help and appreciate what willingness to help and appreciate what I was trying to do. And the operating I was trying to do. And the operating I was trying to do. And the operating environment out of New Orleans into the

23:00 100 Coffees With 100 Strangers

23:03 environment out of New Orleans into the environment out of New Orleans into the deep water was very Navyike. And that's deep water was very Navyike. And that's deep water was very Navyike. And that's part of why I ended up there because part of why I ended up there because part of why I ended up there because Shell had a look at the different Shell had a look at the different Shell had a look at the different fellows that year and they decided they fellows that year and they decided they fellows that year and they decided they wanted a pilot but they really wanted a wanted a pilot but they really wanted a wanted a pilot but they really wanted a helicopter pilot and I was the only one

23:16 helicopter pilot and I was the only one helicopter pilot and I was the only one in the group. So it seems like this was in the group. So it seems like this was in the group. So it seems like this was a real pivot in your career because a real pivot in your career because a real pivot in your career because after this you went to ATI and really after this you went to ATI and really after this you went to ATI and really got your got your experience in the got your got your experience in the got your got your experience in the industrialbased strategy world. Is that industrialbased strategy world. Is that industrialbased strategy world. Is that right? Explain that to me. Yeah. So,

23:32 right? Explain that to me. Yeah. So, right? Explain that to me. Yeah. So, while I was at Shell, not long after I while I was at Shell, not long after I while I was at Shell, not long after I got there, I I had selected for Navy got there, I I had selected for Navy got there, I I had selected for Navy captain and I was coming up on my '06 captain and I was coming up on my '06 captain and I was coming up on my '06 command board. And uh you know, they command board. And uh you know, they command board. And uh you know, they always tell you when you're serving that always tell you when you're serving that always tell you when you're serving that at some point you'll know when you're

23:45 at some point you'll know when you're at some point you'll know when you're ready to move on. And I used to tell my ready to move on. And I used to tell my ready to move on. And I used to tell my junior officers when I was in command, I junior officers when I was in command, I junior officers when I was in command, I said, "Look, you you've done a great job said, "Look, you you've done a great job said, "Look, you you've done a great job running on the the treadmill of naval running on the the treadmill of naval running on the the treadmill of naval aviation to this point, but the big Navy aviation to this point, but the big Navy aviation to this point, but the big Navy gym has other things going on in it. And

23:58 gym has other things going on in it. And gym has other things going on in it. And if there's something that you feel like if there's something that you feel like if there's something that you feel like you'd rather do for the good of the Navy you'd rather do for the good of the Navy you'd rather do for the good of the Navy and you would do better at it, I'm here and you would do better at it, I'm here and you would do better at it, I'm here to help get you there. And if you decide to help get you there. And if you decide to help get you there. And if you decide that you want to keep running and go that you want to keep running and go that you want to keep running and go further on that treadmill, this is the

24:09 further on that treadmill, this is the further on that treadmill, this is the place to be and let's do that. But if place to be and let's do that. But if place to be and let's do that. But if you want to go home and pop up your feet you want to go home and pop up your feet you want to go home and pop up your feet and have a drink and say, "I I did a and have a drink and say, "I I did a and have a drink and say, "I I did a great thing and I'm done with the Navy." great thing and I'm done with the Navy." great thing and I'm done with the Navy." That's fine, too. You just got to be That's fine, too. You just got to be That's fine, too. You just got to be transparent with me, right? But in the

24:22 transparent with me, right? But in the transparent with me, right? But in the end, that treadmill stops for everybody. end, that treadmill stops for everybody. end, that treadmill stops for everybody. And uh and you need to know when that And uh and you need to know when that And uh and you need to know when that happens. And for me, I had dropped my happens. And for me, I had dropped my happens. And for me, I had dropped my kids off in the morning. And I had this kids off in the morning. And I had this kids off in the morning. And I had this rare blessing of a month of being around rare blessing of a month of being around rare blessing of a month of being around my children and taking them into school

24:34 my children and taking them into school my children and taking them into school every morning and going to their every morning and going to their every morning and going to their sporting events after school every sporting events after school every sporting events after school every single day and meeting people that were single day and meeting people that were single day and meeting people that were doing different things around in doing different things around in doing different things around in different companies. And I said, you different companies. And I said, you different companies. And I said, you know what? I think there's a lot going know what? I think there's a lot going know what? I think there's a lot going on out there that I'd like to explore on out there that I'd like to explore on out there that I'd like to explore and I'd like to get after it before uh

24:48 and I'd like to get after it before uh and I'd like to get after it before uh you know, maybe I'm a little bit too you know, maybe I'm a little bit too you know, maybe I'm a little bit too tired and worn out. So, uh, I picked up tired and worn out. So, uh, I picked up tired and worn out. So, uh, I picked up the phone and called my detailer and I the phone and called my detailer and I the phone and called my detailer and I told him I was going to put in a don't told him I was going to put in a don't told him I was going to put in a don't pick me letter for '06 command and I pick me letter for '06 command and I pick me letter for '06 command and I finished out my year and then got

25:00 finished out my year and then got finished out my year and then got orders. We had to do a payback tour is orders. We had to do a payback tour is orders. We had to do a payback tour is what they call that. So, I went back to what they call that. So, I went back to what they call that. So, I went back to the Pentagon and Navy operations for the Pentagon and Navy operations for the Pentagon and Navy operations for three more years. And it was during that three more years. And it was during that three more years. And it was during that time that I was really trying to figure time that I was really trying to figure time that I was really trying to figure out what I was going to do when I got

25:11 out what I was going to do when I got out what I was going to do when I got out of the Navy. And it was hard. I had out of the Navy. And it was hard. I had out of the Navy. And it was hard. I had three years of, you know, accumulated three years of, you know, accumulated three years of, you know, accumulated stress, not knowing where I was going to stress, not knowing where I was going to stress, not knowing where I was going to live, what kind of work I was going to live, what kind of work I was going to live, what kind of work I was going to do. Like a lot of us, I felt like I do. Like a lot of us, I felt like I do. Like a lot of us, I felt like I could do anything. If you look at the

25:24 could do anything. If you look at the could do anything. If you look at the breadth of type of roles I'd had in the breadth of type of roles I'd had in the breadth of type of roles I'd had in the military and different services in military and different services in military and different services in different locations overseas, I could different locations overseas, I could different locations overseas, I could figure it out. But uh it turns out figure it out. But uh it turns out figure it out. But uh it turns out industry doesn't hire for anything. They industry doesn't hire for anything. They industry doesn't hire for anything. They hire for something. And I was just

25:36 hire for something. And I was just hire for something. And I was just really lucky because after I had gotten really lucky because after I had gotten really lucky because after I had gotten back from Shell, I had mentored a guy uh back from Shell, I had mentored a guy uh back from Shell, I had mentored a guy uh Matt Schnap off who was a 60 Romeo Matt Schnap off who was a 60 Romeo Matt Schnap off who was a 60 Romeo commanding officer out deployed on a commanding officer out deployed on a commanding officer out deployed on a carrier and we got connected to a common carrier and we got connected to a common carrier and we got connected to a common acquaintance who had done that federal

25:50 acquaintance who had done that federal acquaintance who had done that federal executive fellowship at Stanford and he executive fellowship at Stanford and he executive fellowship at Stanford and he said, "Hey, my call sign was Skinny." said, "Hey, my call sign was Skinny." said, "Hey, my call sign was Skinny." He's like, "Hey Skinny, I want you to He's like, "Hey Skinny, I want you to He's like, "Hey Skinny, I want you to talk to Schnap and tell him about the talk to Schnap and tell him about the talk to Schnap and tell him about the corporate side because he's thinking corporate side because he's thinking corporate side because he's thinking about doing one." Okie do. So, we set up

26:02 about doing one." Okie do. So, we set up about doing one." Okie do. So, we set up a call and I explained to Matt, I said, a call and I explained to Matt, I said, a call and I explained to Matt, I said, "Look, first of all, don't expect the "Look, first of all, don't expect the "Look, first of all, don't expect the Navy to love you for doing a fellowship Navy to love you for doing a fellowship Navy to love you for doing a fellowship because it's a year out of the Navy and because it's a year out of the Navy and because it's a year out of the Navy and the Navy likes people doing Navy stuff. the Navy likes people doing Navy stuff. the Navy likes people doing Navy stuff. But if you've got a good record and

26:14 But if you've got a good record and But if you've got a good record and you're confident in that and you really you're confident in that and you really you're confident in that and you really want to do this, it's a lifecher from want to do this, it's a lifecher from want to do this, it's a lifecher from the experience that you'll gain and the the experience that you'll gain and the the experience that you'll gain and the perspective and possibly the network." perspective and possibly the network." perspective and possibly the network." So he ended up going to Oxford So he ended up going to Oxford So he ended up going to Oxford University in England. And while I was a

26:26 University in England. And while I was a University in England. And while I was a battle watch captain in the bowels of battle watch captain in the bowels of battle watch captain in the bowels of the Pentagon one day, I saw an N98 ops the Pentagon one day, I saw an N98 ops the Pentagon one day, I saw an N98 ops report come from Matt Stapoff. I picked report come from Matt Stapoff. I picked report come from Matt Stapoff. I picked up the phone and called and I didn't up the phone and called and I didn't up the phone and called and I didn't realize he was in the building and I realize he was in the building and I realize he was in the building and I said, "Hey, I'm about to retire. Let's

26:37 said, "Hey, I'm about to retire. Let's said, "Hey, I'm about to retire. Let's go get lunch." And uh we I picked him up go get lunch." And uh we I picked him up go get lunch." And uh we I picked him up and the very first thing he asked me, he and the very first thing he asked me, he and the very first thing he asked me, he was like, "Hey, hey, you're about to was like, "Hey, hey, you're about to was like, "Hey, hey, you're about to retire. What do you go do?" I said, retire. What do you go do?" I said, retire. What do you go do?" I said, "That's the challenge." Because at that "That's the challenge." Because at that "That's the challenge." Because at that point, my best opportunity was uh I was

26:50 point, my best opportunity was uh I was point, my best opportunity was uh I was getting ready to go out to Seattle for a getting ready to go out to Seattle for a getting ready to go out to Seattle for a final interview to be the head of final interview to be the head of final interview to be the head of strategy for Amazon Air, which was this strategy for Amazon Air, which was this strategy for Amazon Air, which was this new thing they were standing up. But the new thing they were standing up. But the new thing they were standing up. But the challenge was it was Seattle and my challenge was it was Seattle and my challenge was it was Seattle and my oldest had started 9th grade in

27:01 oldest had started 9th grade in oldest had started 9th grade in Alexandria, Virginia. And big part of Alexandria, Virginia. And big part of Alexandria, Virginia. And big part of that driver of not getting out and not that driver of not getting out and not that driver of not getting out and not doing 06 Command was one place for high doing 06 Command was one place for high doing 06 Command was one place for high school for my kids and me being there school for my kids and me being there school for my kids and me being there for them. So I wasn't going to go badge for them. So I wasn't going to go badge for them. So I wasn't going to go badge across the country. And uh Matt said,

27:15 across the country. And uh Matt said, across the country. And uh Matt said, "Well, hey, if you're interested, my "Well, hey, if you're interested, my "Well, hey, if you're interested, my wife's uncle is a retired fourstar, and wife's uncle is a retired fourstar, and wife's uncle is a retired fourstar, and I had dinner with him last night, and he I had dinner with him last night, and he I had dinner with him last night, and he works for the the Cohen Group, Secretary works for the the Cohen Group, Secretary works for the the Cohen Group, Secretary Cohen's consulting company, and they Cohen's consulting company, and they Cohen's consulting company, and they have a client that does metal products

27:28 have a client that does metal products have a client that does metal products out of Pittsburgh, and they have a out of Pittsburgh, and they have a out of Pittsburgh, and they have a defense office in Crystal City, and defense office in Crystal City, and defense office in Crystal City, and they're looking for somebody like us to they're looking for somebody like us to they're looking for somebody like us to do business development." And that was do business development." And that was do business development." And that was it. A month later, I got walked out of it. A month later, I got walked out of it. A month later, I got walked out of the Pentagon and got a call that

27:37 the Pentagon and got a call that the Pentagon and got a call that afternoon and got offered the job, which afternoon and got offered the job, which afternoon and got offered the job, which I accepted a couple days later. Our I accepted a couple days later. Our I accepted a couple days later. Our paths are so similar. I you just I gota paths are so similar. I you just I gota paths are so similar. I you just I gota I got to unpack so much of that. So the I got to unpack so much of that. So the I got to unpack so much of that. So the last year as I was preparing to retire, last year as I was preparing to retire, last year as I was preparing to retire, I was in legislative affairs working

27:52 I was in legislative affairs working I was in legislative affairs working acquisition and sustainment and one of acquisition and sustainment and one of acquisition and sustainment and one of my portfolios was industrial based my portfolios was industrial based my portfolios was industrial based strategy. My father-in-law uh started strategy. My father-in-law uh started strategy. My father-in-law uh started off sweeping floors in phosphate mines off sweeping floors in phosphate mines off sweeping floors in phosphate mines in central Florida and ended up being in central Florida and ended up being in central Florida and ended up being the CEO, turning that company over seven

28:06 the CEO, turning that company over seven the CEO, turning that company over seven times and eventually selling it for $300 times and eventually selling it for $300 times and eventually selling it for $300 million. million. million. >> Wow. So he was he was telling me he's >> Wow. So he was he was telling me he's >> Wow. So he was he was telling me he's like, "Mike, what you guys are learning like, "Mike, what you guys are learning like, "Mike, what you guys are learning in the military is exactly what it's in the military is exactly what it's in the military is exactly what it's like leading these small companies. So like leading these small companies. So

28:17 like leading these small companies. So don't be afraid to retire and and and don't be afraid to retire and and and don't be afraid to retire and and and see what else is out there." My wife see what else is out there." My wife see what else is out there." My wife says, "I was schizophrenic that last says, "I was schizophrenic that last says, "I was schizophrenic that last year." Uh, you know, I'm going to be a year." Uh, you know, I'm going to be a year." Uh, you know, I'm going to be a photographer. I'm going to do this. I'm photographer. I'm going to do this. I'm photographer. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. I'm I'm going to stay going to do that. I'm I'm going to stay

28:29 going to do that. I'm I'm going to stay in. But I couldn't stay in because I in. But I couldn't stay in because I in. But I couldn't stay in because I would have missed my senior year of my would have missed my senior year of my would have missed my senior year of my my son's senior year of high school. And my son's senior year of high school. And my son's senior year of high school. And then my youngest is getting ready to go then my youngest is getting ready to go then my youngest is getting ready to go in ninth grade. So I said, I stick it in ninth grade. So I said, I stick it in ninth grade. So I said, I stick it out. I become a general officer. And now

28:43 out. I become a general officer. And now out. I become a general officer. And now I'm moving every year, most likely I'm moving every year, most likely I'm moving every year, most likely geobatching because my family needs that geobatching because my family needs that geobatching because my family needs that stability to finish off school. So I stability to finish off school. So I stability to finish off school. So I just said it's time to it's time to just said it's time to it's time to just said it's time to it's time to retire. But as I was talking to a lot of retire. But as I was talking to a lot of retire. But as I was talking to a lot of these retirement uh planning programs,

28:59 these retirement uh planning programs, these retirement uh planning programs, they would say, "Hey, you know, be be they would say, "Hey, you know, be be they would say, "Hey, you know, be be really humble. you're gonna take a huge really humble. you're gonna take a huge really humble. you're gonna take a huge pay cut wherever you go. This is just pay cut wherever you go. This is just pay cut wherever you go. This is just how it works. Industry just doesn't how it works. Industry just doesn't how it works. Industry just doesn't understand or speak your language. So, understand or speak your language. So, understand or speak your language. So, you just have to accept the fact that

29:14 you just have to accept the fact that you just have to accept the fact that that's how it goes. And I thought to that's how it goes. And I thought to that's how it goes. And I thought to myself, no, my father-in-law showed me myself, no, my father-in-law showed me myself, no, my father-in-law showed me how you can be successful on on the how you can be successful on on the how you can be successful on on the outside. So, I led my own path and said, outside. So, I led my own path and said, outside. So, I led my own path and said, I'm going to have 100 cups of coffee I'm going to have 100 cups of coffee I'm going to have 100 cups of coffee with a 100 different people to figure

29:29 with a 100 different people to figure with a 100 different people to figure out what the heck I'm going to do. And out what the heck I'm going to do. And out what the heck I'm going to do. And during those 100 cups of coffee, I during those 100 cups of coffee, I during those 100 cups of coffee, I figured out there's a lot of figured out there's a lot of figured out there's a lot of opportunities out there that you don't opportunities out there that you don't opportunities out there that you don't have to take that first chance. You have to take that first chance. You have to take that first chance. You don't have to take that GS job in the don't have to take that GS job in the

29:41 don't have to take that GS job in the Pentagon or that um that lowpaying Pentagon or that um that lowpaying Pentagon or that um that lowpaying midtier leadership job because that's midtier leadership job because that's midtier leadership job because that's what they said that you deserved. So what they said that you deserved. So what they said that you deserved. So thankfully I had a mentor to allow me to thankfully I had a mentor to allow me to thankfully I had a mentor to allow me to understand those differences. But like I understand those differences. But like I understand those differences. But like I said, you and I are so similar from the

29:57 said, you and I are so similar from the said, you and I are so similar from the standpoint of retiring for family and standpoint of retiring for family and standpoint of retiring for family and then you working for that company, then you working for that company, then you working for that company, understanding industrial based strategy. understanding industrial based strategy. understanding industrial based strategy. I finally realized, hey, the this supply I finally realized, hey, the this supply I finally realized, hey, the this supply chain logistics thing and and all the uh chain logistics thing and and all the uh chain logistics thing and and all the uh minerals that we depend on for not only

30:12 minerals that we depend on for not only minerals that we depend on for not only military service, but just our basic military service, but just our basic military service, but just our basic electronic components and things we use electronic components and things we use electronic components and things we use in the United States, they are far more in the United States, they are far more in the United States, they are far more important than the the general public important than the the general public important than the the general public really understands. really understands. really understands. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Jeff Green was uh a lot >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Jeff Green was uh a lot

30:26 >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Jeff Green was uh a lot that we worked with when I got to ATI that we worked with when I got to ATI that we worked with when I got to ATI and he uh had done a lot of work on the and he uh had done a lot of work on the and he uh had done a lot of work on the hill and still to this day leads a lot hill and still to this day leads a lot hill and still to this day leads a lot of opinion pieces and work around rare of opinion pieces and work around rare of opinion pieces and work around rare earth strategies and titanium and the earth strategies and titanium and the earth strategies and titanium and the berry amendment and how we can try to uh

30:43 berry amendment and how we can try to uh berry amendment and how we can try to uh understand the street strategic understand the street strategic understand the street strategic implications that you're reading about implications that you're reading about implications that you're reading about probably every single day in the news probably every single day in the news probably every single day in the news right now and negotiations with China. right now and negotiations with China. right now and negotiations with China. Right. Right. Right. >> Yeah. Yeah, we're in a tough moment >> Yeah. Yeah, we're in a tough moment >> Yeah. Yeah, we're in a tough moment right now because we're always chasing

30:54 right now because we're always chasing right now because we're always chasing the uh the lowest cost or the the the uh the lowest cost or the the the uh the lowest cost or the the cheapest labor. And I mean, eventually cheapest labor. And I mean, eventually cheapest labor. And I mean, eventually that comes to an end, right? Kind of that comes to an end, right? Kind of that comes to an end, right? Kind of like that treadmill you were saying, like that treadmill you were saying, like that treadmill you were saying, hey, you can run on that treadmill, but hey, you can run on that treadmill, but hey, you can run on that treadmill, but eventually it comes to a stop and

31:05 eventually it comes to a stop and eventually it comes to a stop and everybody has to get off because their, everybody has to get off because their, everybody has to get off because their, you know, their military service is you know, their military service is you know, their military service is done. Well, when it comes to seeking out done. Well, when it comes to seeking out done. Well, when it comes to seeking out low wage labor and critical minerals, low wage labor and critical minerals, low wage labor and critical minerals, eventually that that treadmill comes. It's going to be interesting to see how It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. But I think doubling

31:22 that plays out. But I think doubling that plays out. But I think doubling back to the challenge of figuring out back to the challenge of figuring out back to the challenge of figuring out what you want to do, that really made an what you want to do, that really made an what you want to do, that really made an imprint on me. And one of the things I imprint on me. And one of the things I imprint on me. And one of the things I did while I was at Shell was I helped did while I was at Shell was I helped did while I was at Shell was I helped them and their military recruiter and them and their military recruiter and them and their military recruiter and their leadership and hiring managers and

31:37 their leadership and hiring managers and their leadership and hiring managers and HR to better understand some of the HR to better understand some of the HR to better understand some of the barriers that they had internally to barriers that they had internally to barriers that they had internally to attracting and developing and promoting attracting and developing and promoting attracting and developing and promoting military talent. I mentioned so many military talent. I mentioned so many military talent. I mentioned so many military folks were concentrated in military folks were concentrated in military folks were concentrated in logistics but there was almost nobody in

31:51 logistics but there was almost nobody in logistics but there was almost nobody in the military in any other part of the the military in any other part of the the military in any other part of the business. it was very rare. And um so business. it was very rare. And um so business. it was very rare. And um so those experiences and and getting to go those experiences and and getting to go those experiences and and getting to go and and kind of represent Shell and help

32:00 The Shell Oil Fellowship — Hacking the System

32:02 and and kind of represent Shell and help and and kind of represent Shell and help these military people at conferences these military people at conferences these military people at conferences like the service academy career like the service academy career like the service academy career conference understand a little bit conference understand a little bit conference understand a little bit better about how they might be able to better about how they might be able to better about how they might be able to package what they were in a way that a package what they were in a way that a package what they were in a way that a company like Shell might be interested

32:16 company like Shell might be interested company like Shell might be interested in or any other company frankly. And um in or any other company frankly. And um in or any other company frankly. And um I had no idea that experience and then I had no idea that experience and then I had no idea that experience and then my own personal challenge with the my own personal challenge with the my own personal challenge with the transition and trying to figure transition and trying to figure transition and trying to figure something out uh and then mentoring something out uh and then mentoring something out uh and then mentoring people for the last few years as I

32:30 people for the last few years as I people for the last few years as I worked at ATI and then at Vita Inclinata worked at ATI and then at Vita Inclinata worked at ATI and then at Vita Inclinata was going to set me up ultimately to run was going to set me up ultimately to run was going to set me up ultimately to run an organization that concentrates on an organization that concentrates on an organization that concentrates on career transition and placement. career transition and placement. career transition and placement. >> And boy, you beat me to the punch. >> And boy, you beat me to the punch. >> And boy, you beat me to the punch. That's a perfect segue to what I was

32:43 That's a perfect segue to what I was That's a perfect segue to what I was going to ask you next. And that's after going to ask you next. And that's after going to ask you next. And that's after achieving these successes in the achieving these successes in the achieving these successes in the military and private industry, you now military and private industry, you now military and private industry, you now lead this nonprofit Next Stop. How does lead this nonprofit Next Stop. How does lead this nonprofit Next Stop. How does helping an enlisted veteran find a helping an enlisted veteran find a helping an enlisted veteran find a meaningful goop paying career represent

32:55 meaningful goop paying career represent meaningful goop paying career represent the ultimate sustainable outcome for you the ultimate sustainable outcome for you the ultimate sustainable outcome for you personally? personally? personally? >> I think that that's it right there. I've >> I think that that's it right there. I've >> I think that that's it right there. I've come up with a little theory and I put come up with a little theory and I put come up with a little theory and I put it out there on LinkedIn because a guy I it out there on LinkedIn because a guy I it out there on LinkedIn because a guy I was mentoring said, "I think you've kind

33:06 was mentoring said, "I think you've kind was mentoring said, "I think you've kind of captured it well." And I said, "Well, of captured it well." And I said, "Well, of captured it well." And I said, "Well, let's throw it out there and see what let's throw it out there and see what let's throw it out there and see what people think." and it generated a decent people think." and it generated a decent people think." and it generated a decent amount of conversation, but there's amount of conversation, but there's amount of conversation, but there's really kind of three distinct phases to really kind of three distinct phases to really kind of three distinct phases to the transition and we see it over and

33:17 the transition and we see it over and the transition and we see it over and over and over again when candidates come over and over again when candidates come over and over again when candidates come to us and I know that was part of the to us and I know that was part of the to us and I know that was part of the the pressure that I was feeling and the pressure that I was feeling and the pressure that I was feeling and probably you were with the frenetic probably you were with the frenetic probably you were with the frenetic decision-m around uh I need a job decision-m around uh I need a job decision-m around uh I need a job because I need a job to bring in money

33:31 because I need a job to bring in money because I need a job to bring in money so that I can take care of my so that I can take care of my so that I can take care of my responsibilities, my family and feel responsibilities, my family and feel responsibilities, my family and feel like I still have a purpose, right? You like I still have a purpose, right? You like I still have a purpose, right? You know, that's that's number one. And so know, that's that's number one. And so know, that's that's number one. And so ideally, you you think about it. You ideally, you you think about it. You ideally, you you think about it. You have transferable skills. You're able to

33:43 have transferable skills. You're able to have transferable skills. You're able to package yourself. Those hundred cups of package yourself. Those hundred cups of package yourself. Those hundred cups of coffee turn into the right thing. Matt coffee turn into the right thing. Matt coffee turn into the right thing. Matt Schnap off happens to meet you at the Schnap off happens to meet you at the Schnap off happens to meet you at the right time and you find your way, right? right time and you find your way, right? right time and you find your way, right? But had I not had lunch with Matt that But had I not had lunch with Matt that But had I not had lunch with Matt that day, I don't know how long it would have

33:55 day, I don't know how long it would have day, I don't know how long it would have been, and I've seen people struggle. And been, and I've seen people struggle. And been, and I've seen people struggle. And there's a lot of data that we see that there's a lot of data that we see that there's a lot of data that we see that shows that if you do struggle and you shows that if you do struggle and you shows that if you do struggle and you don't have that job when you need it, don't have that job when you need it, don't have that job when you need it, uh, some bad things can happen, right? uh, some bad things can happen, right? uh, some bad things can happen, right? And it leads to financial stress,

34:07 And it leads to financial stress, And it leads to financial stress, homelessness, dependencies, and suicide homelessness, dependencies, and suicide homelessness, dependencies, and suicide on one end. And then it can also lead to on one end. And then it can also lead to on one end. And then it can also lead to people taking the first job that they people taking the first job that they people taking the first job that they can get. And that leads to can get. And that leads to can get. And that leads to undermployment in a lot of ways. And so undermployment in a lot of ways. And so undermployment in a lot of ways. And so we [snorts] we talk a lot about how much

34:21 we [snorts] we talk a lot about how much we [snorts] we talk a lot about how much success we've had as a nation around success we've had as a nation around success we've had as a nation around reducing veteran unemployment. And we reducing veteran unemployment. And we reducing veteran unemployment. And we have, but the next tranch of that is have, but the next tranch of that is have, but the next tranch of that is veteran undermployment. And there is a veteran undermployment. And there is a veteran undermployment. And there is a massive percentage of veterans who are massive percentage of veterans who are massive percentage of veterans who are undermployed and I think that is one of

34:37 undermployed and I think that is one of undermployed and I think that is one of the elements that contributes to this uh the elements that contributes to this uh the elements that contributes to this uh data point that veterans tend to leave data point that veterans tend to leave data point that veterans tend to leave their first job within the first year. their first job within the first year. their first job within the first year. Part of it is they were undermployed. Part of it is they were undermployed. Part of it is they were undermployed. They got some confidence. They realized They got some confidence. They realized They got some confidence. They realized how to tell their story and find that

34:51 how to tell their story and find that how to tell their story and find that opportunity. That's that's a very opportunity. That's that's a very opportunity. That's that's a very perfectly good reason, right, for people perfectly good reason, right, for people perfectly good reason, right, for people to leave their job. Um, but avoiding to leave their job. Um, but avoiding to leave their job. Um, but avoiding that undermployment upfront and giving that undermployment upfront and giving that undermployment upfront and giving them the appropriate guidance to figure them the appropriate guidance to figure them the appropriate guidance to figure out their why, their what the where.

35:06 out their why, their what the where. out their why, their what the where. Make sure they have a resume. Make sure Make sure they have a resume. Make sure Make sure they have a resume. Make sure they know how to interview. Make sure they know how to interview. Make sure they know how to interview. Make sure they get the opportunities and put they get the opportunities and put they get the opportunities and put themselves out there for success both on themselves out there for success both on themselves out there for success both on LinkedIn as well as in in-person events LinkedIn as well as in in-person events LinkedIn as well as in in-person events to network and get to know people and

35:18 to network and get to know people and to network and get to know people and create those opportunities is vital. And create those opportunities is vital. And create those opportunities is vital. And coming out of the service, we're not coming out of the service, we're not coming out of the service, we're not told about the value of having a good told about the value of having a good told about the value of having a good LinkedIn profile, of networking. It's LinkedIn profile, of networking. It's LinkedIn profile, of networking. It's hard to do. I got a day job. I, you hard to do. I got a day job. I, you hard to do. I got a day job. I, you know, I'm working long days. Why would I

35:34 know, I'm working long days. Why would I know, I'm working long days. Why would I go to an alumni event tonight? Why would go to an alumni event tonight? Why would go to an alumni event tonight? Why would I go to this uh industry networking I go to this uh industry networking I go to this uh industry networking event? Why would I go talk to the people event? Why would I go talk to the people event? Why would I go talk to the people in my neighborhood who are having a in my neighborhood who are having a in my neighborhood who are having a block party about the fact that I'm block party about the fact that I'm block party about the fact that I'm getting out of the Navy and I want a

35:45 getting out of the Navy and I want a getting out of the Navy and I want a job? you know, those kind of things are job? you know, those kind of things are job? you know, those kind of things are how you learn how to sell yourself, how how you learn how to sell yourself, how how you learn how to sell yourself, how you get feedback from others, how you you get feedback from others, how you you get feedback from others, how you create those serendipitous create those serendipitous create those serendipitous opportunities. And um we we just don't opportunities. And um we we just don't opportunities. And um we we just don't typically come out prime for that very

35:59 typically come out prime for that very typically come out prime for that very well. And so after you've got that first well. And so after you've got that first well. And so after you've got that first job, the next thing becomes job, the next thing becomes job, the next thing becomes sustainability. sustainability. sustainability. So, am I undermployed? Am I making So, am I undermployed? Am I making So, am I undermployed? Am I making enough money? Am I working too hard? you enough money? Am I working too hard? you enough money? Am I working too hard? you know, have I figured out how to know, have I figured out how to know, have I figured out how to recognize I'm not in the military

36:16 recognize I'm not in the military recognize I'm not in the military anymore and put some boundaries around anymore and put some boundaries around anymore and put some boundaries around my life and make sure that I fulfill the my life and make sure that I fulfill the my life and make sure that I fulfill the things that are important to me like things that are important to me like things that are important to me like being there for my kids sports in the being there for my kids sports in the being there for my kids sports in the afternoon or am I working till 6:00 or 7 afternoon or am I working till 6:00 or 7 afternoon or am I working till 6:00 or 7 at night because I just don't know how

36:27 at night because I just don't know how at night because I just don't know how to do anything different. So that to do anything different. So that to do anything different. So that sustainability becomes a piece of that I sustainability becomes a piece of that I sustainability becomes a piece of that I recall towards right as co was hitting I recall towards right as co was hitting I recall towards right as co was hitting I was uh probably pushing three and a half was uh probably pushing three and a half was uh probably pushing three and a half years into ATI and I had five straight years into ATI and I had five straight years into ATI and I had five straight weeks of travel schedule. I had been

36:41 weeks of travel schedule. I had been weeks of travel schedule. I had been fairly successful in the first couple of fairly successful in the first couple of fairly successful in the first couple of years and it just kept opening more years and it just kept opening more years and it just kept opening more customers and more doors and more customers and more doors and more customers and more doors and more meetings and more conferences and more meetings and more conferences and more meetings and more conferences and more engagements and um they had started to engagements and um they had started to engagements and um they had started to add on international travel which I was

36:53 add on international travel which I was add on international travel which I was hungry for at the time cuz it was new hungry for at the time cuz it was new hungry for at the time cuz it was new opportunity and I was going to bring on opportunity and I was going to bring on opportunity and I was going to bring on more but uh it was not sustainable. I more but uh it was not sustainable. I more but uh it was not sustainable. I didn't have enough vacation time. I I didn't have enough vacation time. I I didn't have enough vacation time. I I worked long days. I was still missing worked long days. I was still missing worked long days. I was still missing events with my kids. We just weren't

37:06 events with my kids. We just weren't events with my kids. We just weren't moving. That's the really the thing that moving. That's the really the thing that moving. That's the really the thing that had changed. And so when COVID hit and I had changed. And so when COVID hit and I had changed. And so when COVID hit and I had an opportunity to change, I was not had an opportunity to change, I was not had an opportunity to change, I was not afraid to I've never been afraid to make afraid to I've never been afraid to make afraid to I've never been afraid to make a change. And so maybe that's from a change. And so maybe that's from a change. And so maybe that's from moving around a lot as a kid and

37:19 moving around a lot as a kid and moving around a lot as a kid and everything that I went through. But um I everything that I went through. But um I everything that I went through. But um I went ahead and jumped at the next went ahead and jumped at the next went ahead and jumped at the next opportunity. opportunity. opportunity. And it was another great education, but And it was another great education, but And it was another great education, but again, not sustainable. And at the third again, not sustainable. And at the third again, not sustainable. And at the third phase that everybody wants to get to and phase that everybody wants to get to and phase that everybody wants to get to and you can use lots of different terms for

37:34 you can use lots of different terms for you can use lots of different terms for it, you know, top of Maslo's pyramid or it, you know, top of Maslo's pyramid or it, you know, top of Maslo's pyramid or whatever, but it's about fulfillment and whatever, but it's about fulfillment and whatever, but it's about fulfillment and veterans want to be involved in veterans want to be involved in veterans want to be involved in something that fulfills their need to something that fulfills their need to something that fulfills their need to serve and have a mission and an impact. serve and have a mission and an impact. serve and have a mission and an impact. And when Next Stop appeared in the Naval

37:51 And when Next Stop appeared in the Naval And when Next Stop appeared in the Naval Academy Shipmate magazine run by Academy Shipmate magazine run by Academy Shipmate magazine run by Stephanie Drake, who I had met when she Stephanie Drake, who I had met when she Stephanie Drake, who I had met when she got out of the Marine Corps and uh got out of the Marine Corps and uh got out of the Marine Corps and uh joined Shell downstream and did that joined Shell downstream and did that joined Shell downstream and did that service academy conference visit with me service academy conference visit with me service academy conference visit with me with the military recruiter. I was like,

38:04 with the military recruiter. I was like, with the military recruiter. I was like, "Oh, I know Stephanie. What is Stephanie "Oh, I know Stephanie. What is Stephanie "Oh, I know Stephanie. What is Stephanie doing and what is next stop?" So, I read doing and what is next stop?" So, I read doing and what is next stop?" So, I read the article and I was just blown away. I the article and I was just blown away. I the article and I was just blown away. I said, "Man, transition's hard. I watch said, "Man, transition's hard. I watch said, "Man, transition's hard. I watch my grandfathers get out of the Navy and, my grandfathers get out of the Navy and, my grandfathers get out of the Navy and, you know, just kind of really not have

38:16 you know, just kind of really not have you know, just kind of really not have any career afterwards and there's a lot any career afterwards and there's a lot any career afterwards and there's a lot of enlisted guys out there and I imagine of enlisted guys out there and I imagine of enlisted guys out there and I imagine they have it even harder than somebody they have it even harder than somebody they have it even harder than somebody like me with a business masters and a like me with a business masters and a like me with a business masters and a naval academy network and all that. So I naval academy network and all that. So I naval academy network and all that. So I got on LinkedIn and I hit up Stephanie

38:29 got on LinkedIn and I hit up Stephanie got on LinkedIn and I hit up Stephanie and I said, "Steph, I got to know more and I said, "Steph, I got to know more and I said, "Steph, I got to know more about Next Stop. Tell me what you guys about Next Stop. Tell me what you guys about Next Stop. Tell me what you guys are doing." So we had a nice call and at are doing." So we had a nice call and at are doing." So we had a nice call and at the end of that call she told me that the end of that call she told me that the end of that call she told me that the organization, you know, had gone the organization, you know, had gone the organization, you know, had gone through some pressure during COVID.

38:40 through some pressure during COVID. through some pressure during COVID. people weren't allowed to get on base people weren't allowed to get on base people weren't allowed to get on base and recruit. You weren't having hiring and recruit. You weren't having hiring and recruit. You weren't having hiring fairs and and people weren't hiring and fairs and and people weren't hiring and fairs and and people weren't hiring and most of the HR and talent acquisition most of the HR and talent acquisition most of the HR and talent acquisition people have been sent home anyway. If people have been sent home anyway. If people have been sent home anyway. If they're not working, we don't need them.

38:50 they're not working, we don't need them. they're not working, we don't need them. And so, um, she said, "We do really good And so, um, she said, "We do really good And so, um, she said, "We do really good work on the left side of this employment work on the left side of this employment work on the left side of this employment equation. We we can recruit and we can equation. We we can recruit and we can equation. We we can recruit and we can help develop and we provide one-on-one help develop and we provide one-on-one help develop and we provide one-on-one coaching and we build confidence and coaching and we build confidence and coaching and we build confidence and trust because our employment

39:04 trust because our employment trust because our employment coordinators are prior enlisted and coordinators are prior enlisted and coordinators are prior enlisted and they're in it for the right mission." they're in it for the right mission." they're in it for the right mission." And so, um, what we need is the right And so, um, what we need is the right And so, um, what we need is the right side of that equation. We need to engage side of that equation. We need to engage side of that equation. We need to engage employers better and we need to create employers better and we need to create employers better and we need to create scale. And I said, well, I know how to

39:17 scale. And I said, well, I know how to scale. And I said, well, I know how to grow and scale things. And, um, grow and scale things. And, um, grow and scale things. And, um, I put my name in the hat. I started I put my name in the hat. I started I put my name in the hat. I started interviewing. And kind of like with ATI, interviewing. And kind of like with ATI, interviewing. And kind of like with ATI, a month later, they offered me the job. a month later, they offered me the job. a month later, they offered me the job. And, uh, I took over as executive And, uh, I took over as executive And, uh, I took over as executive director on Halloween of 2022. And

39:30 director on Halloween of 2022. And director on Halloween of 2022. And that's what we've been doing for coming that's what we've been doing for coming that's what we've been doing for coming around towards three years now is is around towards three years now is is around towards three years now is is growing that right side of the equation growing that right side of the equation growing that right side of the equation driving u you know bigger numbers bigger driving u you know bigger numbers bigger driving u you know bigger numbers bigger impact professionalizing the team more impact professionalizing the team more impact professionalizing the team more and and it's uh it's fulfilling every

39:42 and and it's uh it's fulfilling every and and it's uh it's fulfilling every single day. So I think I finally got to single day. So I think I finally got to single day. So I think I finally got to that place they say if you love what that place they say if you love what that place they say if you love what you're doing you'll never work a day in you're doing you'll never work a day in you're doing you'll never work a day in your life. I had to laugh at that. I was your life. I had to laugh at that. I was your life. I had to laugh at that. I was like I love flying but I felt like I was like I love flying but I felt like I was like I love flying but I felt like I was working.

39:55 working. working. But now, you know, I'm in an But now, you know, I'm in an But now, you know, I'm in an organization that just you realize every organization that just you realize every organization that just you realize every single day you're changing lives. single day you're changing lives. single day you're changing lives. >> Once again, >> Once again, >> Once again, there's so many things to unpack there. there's so many things to unpack there. there's so many things to unpack there. First off, by you saying First off, by you saying First off, by you saying working these long hours late into the working these long hours late into the working these long hours late into the night, being on the road, and you said,

40:13 night, being on the road, and you said, night, being on the road, and you said, "But if that's all you know, that's all "But if that's all you know, that's all "But if that's all you know, that's all you know." I I'm dealing with that same you know." I I'm dealing with that same you know." I I'm dealing with that same thing now in my new job. I love my new thing now in my new job. I love my new thing now in my new job. I love my new job. It's fascinating. I have autonomy. job. It's fascinating. I have autonomy. job. It's fascinating. I have autonomy. I feel like I'm making a difference, but I feel like I'm making a difference, but I feel like I'm making a difference, but at the same time, I'm kind of getting

40:25 at the same time, I'm kind of getting at the same time, I'm kind of getting sucked into those extra hours and things sucked into those extra hours and things sucked into those extra hours and things that I've just been used to doing the that I've just been used to doing the that I've just been used to doing the last 24 years. So, for Thank you. Thank last 24 years. So, for Thank you. Thank last 24 years. So, for Thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you for bringing me you for that. Thank you for bringing me you for that. Thank you for bringing me back to center and focus on, hey, maybe back to center and focus on, hey, maybe back to center and focus on, hey, maybe you shouldn't work so much even though

40:37 you shouldn't work so much even though you shouldn't work so much even though even though you're enjoying it. And then even though you're enjoying it. And then even though you're enjoying it. And then you mentioned um LinkedIn. I've been you mentioned um LinkedIn. I've been you mentioned um LinkedIn. I've been telling people for years, look, telling people for years, look, telling people for years, look, you spent 20 years or you name how many you spent 20 years or you name how many you spent 20 years or you name how many years having an impeccable uniform, years having an impeccable uniform, years having an impeccable uniform, performance reports, always shooting for

40:55 performance reports, always shooting for performance reports, always shooting for that top of the class. that top of the class. that top of the class. And then now you're getting ready to And then now you're getting ready to And then now you're getting ready to retire and social media is our new retire and social media is our new retire and social media is our new avenue of of networking. So, you're avenue of of networking. So, you're avenue of of networking. So, you're going to take a selfie on your phone and going to take a selfie on your phone and going to take a selfie on your phone and can and call it good. [laughter] can and call it good. [laughter]

41:12 can and call it good. [laughter] I I I I tell people, you've got all I I I I tell people, you've got all I I I I tell people, you've got all these recruiters on LinkedIn and they're these recruiters on LinkedIn and they're these recruiters on LinkedIn and they're scrolling through thousands of people a scrolling through thousands of people a scrolling through thousands of people a day, right? So, I said, "Let's teach you day, right? So, I said, "Let's teach you day, right? So, I said, "Let's teach you how to slow their scroll." And you slow how to slow their scroll." And you slow how to slow their scroll." And you slow their scroll, their scroll, their scroll, >> right? You slow their scroll by having >> right? You slow their scroll by having >> right? You slow their scroll by having some sort of interesting page just to

41:31 some sort of interesting page just to some sort of interesting page just to get them to stop for two or three get them to stop for two or three get them to stop for two or three seconds to perhaps, seconds to perhaps, seconds to perhaps, >> you know, look at your profile or look >> you know, look at your profile or look >> you know, look at your profile or look at your banner screen and say, "Wow, I'm at your banner screen and say, "Wow, I'm at your banner screen and say, "Wow, I'm interested how that person did that." or interested how that person did that." or interested how that person did that." or wow that's a really sharp looking

41:41 wow that's a really sharp looking wow that's a really sharp looking picture but these guys that are taking picture but these guys that are taking picture but these guys that are taking you know selfies next to brick walls I'm you know selfies next to brick walls I'm you know selfies next to brick walls I'm like my goodness what what did what did like my goodness what what did what did like my goodness what what did what did that 20 years teach you right and then that 20 years teach you right and then that 20 years teach you right and then the last thing you mentioned was that the last thing you mentioned was that the last thing you mentioned was that that service that um finding your

41:57 that service that um finding your that service that um finding your internal happiness that's what Voice for internal happiness that's what Voice for internal happiness that's what Voice for Valor is for me

42:00 Building NextOp — Tackling Veteran Underemployment

42:01 Valor is for me Valor is for me >> right I I am not [clears throat] I am >> right I I am not [clears throat] I am >> right I I am not [clears throat] I am not getting rich off this in any not getting rich off this in any not getting rich off this in any capacity I spend about $1,000 a month capacity I spend about $1,000 a month capacity I spend about $1,000 a month just to make all this stuff happen, but just to make all this stuff happen, but just to make all this stuff happen, but it's because I enjoy getting to know it's because I enjoy getting to know it's because I enjoy getting to know people like yourself and the differences

42:15 people like yourself and the differences people like yourself and the differences you're making and we all, you know, the you're making and we all, you know, the you're making and we all, you know, the rising tides lifts all boats is is my rising tides lifts all boats is is my rising tides lifts all boats is is my theory on this. And by you having a theory on this. And by you having a theory on this. And by you having a chance to share your story on Nexttop, chance to share your story on Nexttop, chance to share your story on Nexttop, it's it's so satisfying to me, it's it's so satisfying to me, it's it's so satisfying to me, especially if it helps build the

42:29 especially if it helps build the especially if it helps build the outreach and footprint of what you guys outreach and footprint of what you guys outreach and footprint of what you guys are doing. are doing. are doing. >> Well, I certainly appreciate it. And um >> Well, I certainly appreciate it. And um >> Well, I certainly appreciate it. And um yeah, I can't tell you how many of these yeah, I can't tell you how many of these yeah, I can't tell you how many of these podcasts I've just kind of found, you podcasts I've just kind of found, you podcasts I've just kind of found, you know, through the network again. And and know, through the network again. And and

42:41 know, through the network again. And and I'm always happy to get on and tell the I'm always happy to get on and tell the I'm always happy to get on and tell the story and and talk about NextTop and the story and and talk about NextTop and the story and and talk about NextTop and the work we do because I know that you have work we do because I know that you have work we do because I know that you have a reach and and people will hear it and a reach and and people will hear it and a reach and and people will hear it and hopefully it resonates with them like hopefully it resonates with them like hopefully it resonates with them like that Chipmate article did for me.

42:53 that Chipmate article did for me. that Chipmate article did for me. Excuse me. But doubling back to the Excuse me. But doubling back to the Excuse me. But doubling back to the LinkedIn piece, excuse me, I'm take LinkedIn piece, excuse me, I'm take LinkedIn piece, excuse me, I'm take quick water. I was at special ops command down in I was at special ops command down in Tampa when LinkedIn was brand new and um Tampa when LinkedIn was brand new and um Tampa when LinkedIn was brand new and um sorry I got something in my throat sorry I got something in my throat sorry I got something in my throat there. Um there. Um there. Um social media you you you even used the

43:16 social media you you you even used the social media you you you even used the term that social media is how we network term that social media is how we network term that social media is how we network today today today and so calm and soft not supposed to be and so calm and soft not supposed to be and so calm and soft not supposed to be on social media right? Ah yeah that's a on social media right? Ah yeah that's a on social media right? Ah yeah that's a great point bad juju and I think that's great point bad juju and I think that's great point bad juju and I think that's pretty well pervasive across the pretty well pervasive across the pretty well pervasive across the services but I thought of it very services but I thought of it very services but I thought of it very differently. I said LinkedIn is not differently. I said LinkedIn is not

43:38 differently. I said LinkedIn is not social media. I'm not scrolling videos social media. I'm not scrolling videos social media. I'm not scrolling videos or posting funny. This is a networking or posting funny. This is a networking or posting funny. This is a networking tool. tool. tool. And you'll recall this was probably 2006 And you'll recall this was probably 2006 And you'll recall this was probably 2006 or seven. Um every time you moved email or seven. Um every time you moved email or seven. Um every time you moved email and cell phones were pretty new. So, you and cell phones were pretty new. So, you and cell phones were pretty new. So, you had to get a new cell phone number and a

43:56 had to get a new cell phone number and a had to get a new cell phone number and a new email address everywhere you went new email address everywhere you went new email address everywhere you went cuz your email usually came through your cuz your email usually came through your cuz your email usually came through your cable and your cell phone was whatever cable and your cell phone was whatever cable and your cell phone was whatever local provider. And so, I graduated from local provider. And so, I graduated from local provider. And so, I graduated from the Naval Academy in 1992. There was no the Naval Academy in 1992. There was no the Naval Academy in 1992. There was no internet and there was no cell phone and

44:08 internet and there was no cell phone and internet and there was no cell phone and there was no Facebook and there was no there was no Facebook and there was no there was no Facebook and there was no LinkedIn or any of those things. And so LinkedIn or any of those things. And so LinkedIn or any of those things. And so you immediately shotgun out in the fleet you immediately shotgun out in the fleet you immediately shotgun out in the fleet and you might be at a training center and you might be at a training center and you might be at a training center with some buddies from your class. But with some buddies from your class. But with some buddies from your class. But very soon by the time you get to your

44:20 very soon by the time you get to your very soon by the time you get to your individual unit, you're lucky if one or individual unit, you're lucky if one or individual unit, you're lucky if one or two of your classmates is there and you two of your classmates is there and you two of your classmates is there and you you may bump into them out in the fleet you may bump into them out in the fleet you may bump into them out in the fleet at some point. But in most cases you've at some point. But in most cases you've at some point. But in most cases you've completely lost track of them and and completely lost track of them and and completely lost track of them and and then suddenly email starts to come out,

44:33 then suddenly email starts to come out, then suddenly email starts to come out, phones start to come out, but you phones start to come out, but you phones start to come out, but you couldn't discover anybody. couldn't discover anybody. couldn't discover anybody. it was only those that you already had, it was only those that you already had, it was only those that you already had, you know, in a particular place. And you know, in a particular place. And you know, in a particular place. And then you start to build up your little then you start to build up your little then you start to build up your little uh your little black book, you know, of uh your little black book, you know, of uh your little black book, you know, of people's mobile numbers and email people's mobile numbers and email people's mobile numbers and email addresses, but as soon as they moved, it

44:48 addresses, but as soon as they moved, it addresses, but as soon as they moved, it was useless again. And I said, look, was useless again. And I said, look, was useless again. And I said, look, this is a brilliant tool because if this is a brilliant tool because if this is a brilliant tool because if people are on LinkedIn and I'm connected people are on LinkedIn and I'm connected people are on LinkedIn and I'm connected to them, I can always reach out to them. to them, I can always reach out to them. to them, I can always reach out to them. I don't have to worry about what their I don't have to worry about what their I don't have to worry about what their email and their cell phone is anymore.

45:00 email and their cell phone is anymore. email and their cell phone is anymore. And that was my logic of why I adopted And that was my logic of why I adopted And that was my logic of why I adopted it back at that time. And I can tell you it back at that time. And I can tell you it back at that time. And I can tell you going forward, you bring up an going forward, you bring up an going forward, you bring up an interesting point about the recruiters. interesting point about the recruiters. interesting point about the recruiters. Um, my second job after the Navy at Vita Um, my second job after the Navy at Vita Um, my second job after the Navy at Vita was direct recruit from the CEO. And

45:15 was direct recruit from the CEO. And was direct recruit from the CEO. And this job was enabled because I was able this job was enabled because I was able this job was enabled because I was able to reach out to Stephanie, who I had met to reach out to Stephanie, who I had met to reach out to Stephanie, who I had met years ago at that recruiting trip and years ago at that recruiting trip and years ago at that recruiting trip and ask her about Nexttop. And I leverage ask her about Nexttop. And I leverage ask her about Nexttop. And I leverage LinkedIn on a daily basis for updates on LinkedIn on a daily basis for updates on LinkedIn on a daily basis for updates on people uh news and information about

45:32 people uh news and information about people uh news and information about companies and who's made what move and companies and who's made what move and companies and who's made what move and things like that. And then um the things like that. And then um the things like that. And then um the ability to go in and search for a ability to go in and search for a ability to go in and search for a particular title, a geography, or a particular title, a geography, or a particular title, a geography, or a company. Even though you might only have company. Even though you might only have company. Even though you might only have 300 characters for that little cold

45:45 300 characters for that little cold 300 characters for that little cold call, I've gotten lots of business out call, I've gotten lots of business out call, I've gotten lots of business out of that little 300 character hook. And of that little 300 character hook. And of that little 300 character hook. And that's really all it is. It's again, that's really all it is. It's again, that's really all it is. It's again, it's a different form of stopping the it's a different form of stopping the it's a different form of stopping the scroll. If you can customize the note scroll. If you can customize the note scroll. If you can customize the note when you reach out to somebody in a way

46:01 when you reach out to somebody in a way when you reach out to somebody in a way that makes them want to reply to you, that makes them want to reply to you, that makes them want to reply to you, you've got your win at that point. you've got your win at that point. you've got your win at that point. Don't just send a cold connection Don't just send a cold connection Don't just send a cold connection request. Take the effort to add a note. request. Take the effort to add a note. request. Take the effort to add a note. And if you're doing it on your phone, And if you're doing it on your phone, And if you're doing it on your phone, the default is no note. Just click the

46:13 the default is no note. Just click the the default is no note. Just click the little three dot pancake, edit your little three dot pancake, edit your little three dot pancake, edit your response. That's how you can create response. That's how you can create response. That's how you can create whims. whims. whims. >> Yeah. you know, when I first started >> Yeah. you know, when I first started >> Yeah. you know, when I first started LinkedIn, I I did a lot of what you're LinkedIn, I I did a lot of what you're LinkedIn, I I did a lot of what you're saying. You know, those 300 words, try saying. You know, those 300 words, try saying. You know, those 300 words, try to capture their attention with some

46:29 to capture their attention with some to capture their attention with some sort of hook just to develop a sort of hook just to develop a sort of hook just to develop a conversation. But then it becomes this u conversation. But then it becomes this u conversation. But then it becomes this u snowball effect. So once you hit a snowball effect. So once you hit a snowball effect. So once you hit a certain level or certain number, and I certain level or certain number, and I certain level or certain number, and I don't know if it's because of the don't know if it's because of the don't know if it's because of the podcast or my photography, I don't know

46:43 podcast or my photography, I don't know podcast or my photography, I don't know what it is, but you hit a certain number what it is, but you hit a certain number what it is, but you hit a certain number and then the momentum takes care of and then the momentum takes care of and then the momentum takes care of itself. So, I probably have three to itself. So, I probably have three to itself. So, I probably have three to five people asking to connect with me on five people asking to connect with me on five people asking to connect with me on a daily basis, whereas before, I mean, a daily basis, whereas before, I mean, a daily basis, whereas before, I mean, it took me weeks on end to just try to

46:58 it took me weeks on end to just try to it took me weeks on end to just try to to try and get a few to prove your worth to try and get a few to prove your worth to try and get a few to prove your worth out there. So, I would just encourage out there. So, I would just encourage out there. So, I would just encourage people, look, it's going to be it's people, look, it's going to be it's people, look, it's going to be it's going to be hard those first few months, going to be hard those first few months, going to be hard those first few months, but if you stick with it and you reach but if you stick with it and you reach but if you stick with it and you reach out to people like yourself or or me and

47:10 out to people like yourself or or me and out to people like yourself or or me and you're asking for help, I am more than you're asking for help, I am more than you're asking for help, I am more than happy to help anybody. happy to help anybody. happy to help anybody. And that's where the note is so key And that's where the note is so key And that's where the note is so key because the volume does pick up and I've because the volume does pick up and I've because the volume does pick up and I've got hundreds of requests sitting in an got hundreds of requests sitting in an got hundreds of requests sitting in an inbox. I don't deny them, but at the inbox. I don't deny them, but at the

47:24 inbox. I don't deny them, but at the same time, I don't always have the same time, I don't always have the same time, I don't always have the ability to go in and look at a profile ability to go in and look at a profile ability to go in and look at a profile and see, is this a real profile? Is this and see, is this a real profile? Is this and see, is this a real profile? Is this somebody that's trying to sell me somebody that's trying to sell me somebody that's trying to sell me something or is it a veteran that I, you something or is it a veteran that I, you something or is it a veteran that I, you know, just needs access to my network know, just needs access to my network

47:37 know, just needs access to my network and wants to ask me some questions and wants to ask me some questions and wants to ask me some questions maybe. Um, so I think in general across maybe. Um, so I think in general across maybe. Um, so I think in general across the board, the [clears throat] veteran the board, the [clears throat] veteran the board, the [clears throat] veteran community is very positive about community is very positive about community is very positive about accepting requests and being willing to accepting requests and being willing to accepting requests and being willing to meet and being willing to fear their meet and being willing to fear their

47:51 meet and being willing to fear their ideas and their network across the ideas and their network across the ideas and their network across the board. But, um, you got to put that hook board. But, um, you got to put that hook board. But, um, you got to put that hook in the front. That's important. in the front. That's important. in the front. That's important. >> So, you've helped place thousands of >> So, you've helped place thousands of >> So, you've helped place thousands of veterans into new careers. Could you veterans into new careers. Could you veterans into new careers. Could you share one specific story of a veteran share one specific story of a veteran

48:05 share one specific story of a veteran who came to Nexttop perhaps feeling lost who came to Nexttop perhaps feeling lost who came to Nexttop perhaps feeling lost or undervalued and what their journey to or undervalued and what their journey to or undervalued and what their journey to a new career looked like through your a new career looked like through your a new career looked like through your program? So, usually I'm not down at the So, usually I'm not down at the individual candidate level. Um, but individual candidate level. Um, but individual candidate level. Um, but there are some usually if an officer there are some usually if an officer there are some usually if an officer comes to us, they end up coming to me comes to us, they end up coming to me comes to us, they end up coming to me because our focus is post 911 enlisted.

48:28 because our focus is post 911 enlisted. because our focus is post 911 enlisted. And so there's been a few cases where I And so there's been a few cases where I And so there's been a few cases where I will mentor and guide and and help will mentor and guide and and help will mentor and guide and and help connect uh I look for partners to uh connect uh I look for partners to uh connect uh I look for partners to uh organizations like Mike Wallace's organizations like Mike Wallace's organizations like Mike Wallace's Bluewater Advisors serves a very niche Bluewater Advisors serves a very niche Bluewater Advisors serves a very niche group of uh more senior officers.

48:45 group of uh more senior officers. group of uh more senior officers. Uh and we have partnerships with Uh and we have partnerships with Uh and we have partnerships with organizations at the corporate level organizations at the corporate level organizations at the corporate level like hiring our heroes where they refer like hiring our heroes where they refer like hiring our heroes where they refer candidates that don't fit their cohorts candidates that don't fit their cohorts candidates that don't fit their cohorts uh but they serve spouses and since we uh but they serve spouses and since we uh but they serve spouses and since we don't those are great referral partners

48:59 don't those are great referral partners don't those are great referral partners but at the macro level you know I do a but at the macro level you know I do a but at the macro level you know I do a lot of that kind of stuff as far as the lot of that kind of stuff as far as the lot of that kind of stuff as far as the individuals individuals individuals um um um I'd say you know not specific names but I'd say you know not specific names but I'd say you know not specific names but building the pipeline that we have with building the pipeline that we have with building the pipeline that we have with the Navy that started with the uh the Navy that started with the uh

49:16 the Navy that started with the uh training center in Danville, Virginia, training center in Danville, Virginia, training center in Danville, Virginia, ATDM, and then actually leveraging uh ATDM, and then actually leveraging uh ATDM, and then actually leveraging uh LinkedIn to get connected to Whitney LinkedIn to get connected to Whitney LinkedIn to get connected to Whitney Jones, who was the Navy's um maritime Jones, who was the Navy's um maritime Jones, who was the Navy's um maritime industrial base lead uh via that 300 industrial base lead uh via that 300 industrial base lead uh via that 300 character hook. She wrote me back character hook. She wrote me back

49:33 character hook. She wrote me back because I said, "We're partnered with because I said, "We're partnered with because I said, "We're partnered with ATDM. We help enlisted. We want to do ATDM. We help enlisted. We want to do ATDM. We help enlisted. We want to do more in the submarine industrial base." more in the submarine industrial base." more in the submarine industrial base." and she scheduled a call and spent time and she scheduled a call and spent time and she scheduled a call and spent time with me and then told me about Blue with me and then told me about Blue with me and then told me about Blue Forge Alliance, which we've been able to Forge Alliance, which we've been able to

49:46 Forge Alliance, which we've been able to partner up with and get funding and partner up with and get funding and partner up with and get funding and build out our aerospace and defense build out our aerospace and defense build out our aerospace and defense program from and go from 100 submarine program from and go from 100 submarine program from and go from 100 submarine placements to 300 maritime imp placements to 300 maritime imp placements to 300 maritime imp placements this year. That whole placements this year. That whole placements this year. That whole buildout and then seeing these people buildout and then seeing these people buildout and then seeing these people who express interest in a website like who express interest in a website like who express interest in a website like builds.com. Yes, I want to help build builds.com. Yes, I want to help build

50:05 builds.com. Yes, I want to help build giants, but they have no idea how to giants, but they have no idea how to giants, but they have no idea how to walk that path and to be able to reach walk that path and to be able to reach walk that path and to be able to reach out and connect those people and guide out and connect those people and guide out and connect those people and guide them through mine training and then help them through mine training and then help them through mine training and then help them get hired at a company that's them get hired at a company that's them get hired at a company that's building components for ships and building components for ships and

50:19 building components for ships and submarines on the backside. Uh those submarines on the backside. Uh those submarines on the backside. Uh those cases happen over and over and over cases happen over and over and over cases happen over and over and over again and it's uh that's the stuff again and it's uh that's the stuff again and it's uh that's the stuff that's really gratifying. But I I don't that's really gratifying. But I I don't that's really gratifying. But I I don't think I could give you one specific name think I could give you one specific name think I could give you one specific name or case. Well, it it's a small world or case. Well, it it's a small world

50:33 or case. Well, it it's a small world because I know Whitney. Uh I worked with because I know Whitney. Uh I worked with because I know Whitney. Uh I worked with the builds.com piece when I was in the builds.com piece when I was in the builds.com piece when I was in industrialbased strategy through Adele industrialbased strategy through Adele industrialbased strategy through Adele through Adele through Adele through Adele >> Ratcliffe. >> Ratcliffe. >> Ratcliffe. Helped fund ATDM. Helped fund ATDM. Helped fund ATDM. >> Yeah. So Adele Ratcliffe is the one that >> Yeah. So Adele Ratcliffe is the one that >> Yeah. So Adele Ratcliffe is the one that introduced me to Whitney. Um so once

50:47 introduced me to Whitney. Um so once introduced me to Whitney. Um so once again, small world and Whitney just again, small world and Whitney just again, small world and Whitney just recently left her position and went off recently left her position and went off recently left her position and went off to hopefully greener pastures. I was sad to hopefully greener pastures. I was sad to hopefully greener pastures. I was sad to see her go. I said, "No, the to see her go. I said, "No, the to see her go. I said, "No, the buildmarines.com, they need you. They buildmarines.com, they need you. They buildmarines.com, they need you. They need you." So, but she's awesome.

50:59 need you." So, but she's awesome. need you." So, but she's awesome. >> She's doing well. We were actually just >> She's doing well. We were actually just >> She's doing well. We were actually just texting each other last week. texting each other last week. texting each other last week. >> Perfect. That's good to hear. So, >> Perfect. That's good to hear. So, >> Perfect. That's good to hear. So, obviously you have a ne unique vantage obviously you have a ne unique vantage obviously you have a ne unique vantage point leading a veteran workforce point leading a veteran workforce point leading a veteran workforce development organization. What is the

51:11 development organization. What is the development organization. What is the biggest challenge or opportunity you see biggest challenge or opportunity you see biggest challenge or opportunity you see for America's workforce over the next 5 for America's workforce over the next 5 for America's workforce over the next 5 years? And how are veterans uniquely years? And how are veterans uniquely years? And how are veterans uniquely position to meet those needs? position to meet those needs? position to meet those needs? you know, there's there's a lot of you know, there's there's a lot of you know, there's there's a lot of counterurrens going on right now with

51:25 counterurrens going on right now with counterurrens going on right now with the emergence of AI and concerns about the emergence of AI and concerns about the emergence of AI and concerns about people losing their jobs, but at the people losing their jobs, but at the people losing their jobs, but at the deck plate level, um, our numbers keep deck plate level, um, our numbers keep deck plate level, um, our numbers keep going up every single year. And I think going up every single year. And I think going up every single year. And I think understanding and being able to pitch understanding and being able to pitch understanding and being able to pitch the value proposition of what a veteran

51:40 the value proposition of what a veteran the value proposition of what a veteran brings to a company and then connect brings to a company and then connect brings to a company and then connect that in a systematic way to really I that in a systematic way to really I that in a systematic way to really I think in oil and gas terms a lot, right? think in oil and gas terms a lot, right? think in oil and gas terms a lot, right? You know, to create a pipeline. uh where You know, to create a pipeline. uh where You know, to create a pipeline. uh where is that source? How do you extract that is that source? How do you extract that is that source? How do you extract that source, refine that source and deliver

51:54 source, refine that source and deliver source, refine that source and deliver it to the point of need in order to it to the point of need in order to it to the point of need in order to create value? And um we have a lot of create value? And um we have a lot of create value? And um we have a lot of well-funded and well-intentioned islands well-funded and well-intentioned islands well-funded and well-intentioned islands of excellence out there and being able of excellence out there and being able of excellence out there and being able to go around and connect each of those to go around and connect each of those to go around and connect each of those in order to create those steps of value

52:14 in order to create those steps of value in order to create those steps of value and then work together with partners to and then work together with partners to and then work together with partners to build an ecosystem that can scale is um build an ecosystem that can scale is um build an ecosystem that can scale is um it's a huge opportunity. I think it will it's a huge opportunity. I think it will it's a huge opportunity. I think it will finally put in place if we can [snorts] finally put in place if we can [snorts] finally put in place if we can [snorts] create a little bit less of a gap uh of create a little bit less of a gap uh of create a little bit less of a gap uh of the folks that are coming out get

52:32 the folks that are coming out get the folks that are coming out get further upstream with the messaging on further upstream with the messaging on further upstream with the messaging on the value of preparing for transition the value of preparing for transition the value of preparing for transition networking networking networking organizations that can provide those organizations that can provide those organizations that can provide those services with confidence that they can services with confidence that they can services with confidence that they can trust and then create real outcomes. Uh, trust and then create real outcomes. Uh, trust and then create real outcomes. Uh, I think that's going to start to make a

52:48 I think that's going to start to make a I think that's going to start to make a real big difference in our need across real big difference in our need across real big difference in our need across multiple industries where a actual multiple industries where a actual multiple industries where a actual hands-on workforce is required. hands-on workforce is required. hands-on workforce is required. >> Yeah, my oldest son, he's interested in >> Yeah, my oldest son, he's interested in >> Yeah, my oldest son, he's interested in cars, and I'm trying to get my younger cars, and I'm trying to get my younger cars, and I'm trying to get my younger son interested in some of the trades as

53:04 son interested in some of the trades as son interested in some of the trades as well because I keep telling him, look, well because I keep telling him, look, well because I keep telling him, look, these these trade specialties are going these these trade specialties are going these these trade specialties are going to be the last to be replaced by AI and to be the last to be replaced by AI and to be the last to be replaced by AI and robots. I mean, it's probably going to robots. I mean, it's probably going to robots. I mean, it's probably going to be it's pretty safe to say that plumbers be it's pretty safe to say that plumbers be it's pretty safe to say that plumbers are going to have jobs for for the

53:18 are going to have jobs for for the are going to have jobs for for the foreseeable future. Whereas, I was an foreseeable future. Whereas, I was an foreseeable future. Whereas, I was an air, you know, I was a pilot like you air, you know, I was a pilot like you air, you know, I was a pilot like you and everybody says, "Oh, you should go and everybody says, "Oh, you should go and everybody says, "Oh, you should go to the airlines." And I thought, I don't to the airlines." And I thought, I don't to the airlines." And I thought, I don't really want to go seek out a job that I really want to go seek out a job that I really want to go seek out a job that I already know could be replaced is

53:31 already know could be replaced is already know could be replaced is replaceable today. The only reason we replaceable today. The only reason we replaceable today. The only reason we haven't replaced it is just getting rid haven't replaced it is just getting rid haven't replaced it is just getting rid of this, you know, getting ready for the of this, you know, getting ready for the of this, you know, getting ready for the social social social changes that that is of a of an airplane changes that that is of a of an airplane changes that that is of a of an airplane being unmanned when it's flying being unmanned when it's flying being unmanned when it's flying passengers all over the world. So, I was passengers all over the world. So, I was passengers all over the world. So, I was like, I'd rather be focusing on people like, I'd rather be focusing on people

53:46 like, I'd rather be focusing on people and and making a difference at this at and and making a difference at this at and and making a difference at this at this entry entry point level of, you this entry entry point level of, you this entry entry point level of, you know, soldiers, sailors, and airmen know, soldiers, sailors, and airmen know, soldiers, sailors, and airmen rather than sitting on the airplane. rather than sitting on the airplane. rather than sitting on the airplane. >> Well, you know, I'll I'll give you a >> Well, you know, I'll I'll give you a >> Well, you know, I'll I'll give you a little quick vignette and um it's around

54:00 What Companies Get Wrong About Hiring Veterans

54:00 little quick vignette and um it's around little quick vignette and um it's around this trades discussion. already told you this trades discussion. already told you this trades discussion. already told you about ATDM and the work we're doing in about ATDM and the work we're doing in about ATDM and the work we're doing in the maritime industrial base, but uh we the maritime industrial base, but uh we the maritime industrial base, but uh we had a unique breakthrough in the last had a unique breakthrough in the last had a unique breakthrough in the last couple of weeks. Um headquartered in couple of weeks. Um headquartered in couple of weeks. Um headquartered in Houston, have never received any state

54:12 Houston, have never received any state Houston, have never received any state level funding from Houston to support level funding from Houston to support level funding from Houston to support our nonprofit work or from the state of our nonprofit work or from the state of our nonprofit work or from the state of Texas. and um you know living in Texas. and um you know living in Texas. and um you know living in Virginia, going to Texas occasionally, Virginia, going to Texas occasionally, Virginia, going to Texas occasionally, hadn't really cracked the code on that, hadn't really cracked the code on that, hadn't really cracked the code on that, but we partnered pretty recently with an

54:28 but we partnered pretty recently with an but we partnered pretty recently with an organization called Forge Now, run by organization called Forge Now, run by organization called Forge Now, run by Rob Holmes, who's a West Point grad. And Rob Holmes, who's a West Point grad. And Rob Holmes, who's a West Point grad. And um Rob and I just started talking and we um Rob and I just started talking and we um Rob and I just started talking and we started saying, "Okay, what can we do started saying, "Okay, what can we do started saying, "Okay, what can we do here? How can we get more veterans into here? How can we get more veterans into here? How can we get more veterans into your program?" They do uh skilled trades

54:42 your program?" They do uh skilled trades your program?" They do uh skilled trades around electricians, HVAC, and and a few around electricians, HVAC, and and a few around electricians, HVAC, and and a few others. and his whole purpose is others. and his whole purpose is others. and his whole purpose is creating this schoolhouse to get people creating this schoolhouse to get people creating this schoolhouse to get people into these trades that are going to give into these trades that are going to give into these trades that are going to give them good quality of life and there's a them good quality of life and there's a them good quality of life and there's a high demand for them uh going forward.

54:58 high demand for them uh going forward. high demand for them uh going forward. To your point, we're not probably going To your point, we're not probably going To your point, we're not probably going to see robots walking in people's houses to see robots walking in people's houses to see robots walking in people's houses and fix diagnosing and repairing HVAC and fix diagnosing and repairing HVAC and fix diagnosing and repairing HVAC systems soon. And so uh I like their systems soon. And so uh I like their systems soon. And so uh I like their mission. And I thought that this lined mission. And I thought that this lined mission. And I thought that this lined up really well with the type of talent

55:11 up really well with the type of talent up really well with the type of talent that we can bring in and we can bring an that we can bring in and we can bring an that we can bring in and we can bring an organization like Forge Now into our organization like Forge Now into our organization like Forge Now into our marketing and into our events and let marketing and into our events and let marketing and into our events and let them talk about what these opportunities them talk about what these opportunities them talk about what these opportunities are. You come through this program, you are. You come through this program, you are. You come through this program, you get 12 weeks of training. Now you're

55:23 get 12 weeks of training. Now you're get 12 weeks of training. Now you're ready to go out and work in this ready to go out and work in this ready to go out and work in this industry and learn your trade. We're industry and learn your trade. We're industry and learn your trade. We're building even further now. And what's building even further now. And what's building even further now. And what's really exciting as we have grown and really exciting as we have grown and really exciting as we have grown and expanded our geographies and our impact expanded our geographies and our impact expanded our geographies and our impact at Next Stop is we're starting to see a

55:35 at Next Stop is we're starting to see a at Next Stop is we're starting to see a new wrinkle in our programming around new wrinkle in our programming around new wrinkle in our programming around conferences that are built around conferences that are built around conferences that are built around specific industries. So we did a Vette specific industries. So we did a Vette specific industries. So we did a Vette conference with AWS in uh in May and now conference with AWS in uh in May and now conference with AWS in uh in May and now we're looking at expanding that and we're looking at expanding that and we're looking at expanding that and hosting that at different universities

55:49 hosting that at different universities hosting that at different universities around the country. That model is around the country. That model is around the country. That model is wonderful because it allows the either wonderful because it allows the either wonderful because it allows the either student veterans or other veterans that student veterans or other veterans that student veterans or other veterans that are interested in that particular are interested in that particular are interested in that particular industry to come to hear from some industry to come to hear from some industry to come to hear from some panelists to engage with employers and

56:02 panelists to engage with employers and panelists to engage with employers and learn about the different types of learn about the different types of learn about the different types of employers that are in that space, the employers that are in that space, the employers that are in that space, the different types of opportunities that different types of opportunities that different types of opportunities that are there, network and build start are there, network and build start are there, network and build start building a network in person. And building a network in person. And building a network in person. And whether that's just informational whether that's just informational whether that's just informational upfront or it's I need a job right now, upfront or it's I need a job right now, upfront or it's I need a job right now, it suits that full spectrum of uh

56:18 it suits that full spectrum of uh it suits that full spectrum of uh veteran candidates. And so with that veteran candidates. And so with that veteran candidates. And so with that success, we're now starting to see success, we're now starting to see success, we're now starting to see through some other partnerships like through some other partnerships like through some other partnerships like owners and honor in Houston that's run owners and honor in Houston that's run owners and honor in Houston that's run by a retired Green Beret and some other by a retired Green Beret and some other by a retired Green Beret and some other conversations. I've got one coming up

56:30 conversations. I've got one coming up conversations. I've got one coming up with Syracuse at IBMF. Um there's this with Syracuse at IBMF. Um there's this with Syracuse at IBMF. Um there's this whole idea of veterans owning businesses whole idea of veterans owning businesses whole idea of veterans owning businesses or working at veteranowned businesses or working at veteranowned businesses or working at veteranowned businesses out there. So, I had a conversation out there. So, I had a conversation out there. So, I had a conversation yesterday with Vet Fran and we're yesterday with Vet Fran and we're yesterday with Vet Fran and we're starting to pull together this idea of

56:45 starting to pull together this idea of starting to pull together this idea of probably supporting their programming, probably supporting their programming, probably supporting their programming, maybe doing some webinars and then maybe doing some webinars and then maybe doing some webinars and then building up to a veteran business building up to a veteran business building up to a veteran business ownership conference that talks about ownership conference that talks about ownership conference that talks about owning franchises, starting businesses, owning franchises, starting businesses, owning franchises, starting businesses, or becoming someone off that say Forge

57:01 or becoming someone off that say Forge or becoming someone off that say Forge now trail that has three to five years now trail that has three to five years now trail that has three to five years of experience in HVAC and they're ready of experience in HVAC and they're ready of experience in HVAC and they're ready to start their own business now or buy to start their own business now or buy to start their own business now or buy the the person that they've been working the the person that they've been working the the person that they've been working with business from them. And then this with business from them. And then this with business from them. And then this would introduce uh financing,

57:14 would introduce uh financing, would introduce uh financing, mentorship, education, all of the mentorship, education, all of the mentorship, education, all of the wraparound support that you would need wraparound support that you would need wraparound support that you would need to go out and start your own business or to go out and start your own business or to go out and start your own business or or own your own business. And so I think or own your own business. And so I think or own your own business. And so I think there's very little of that that happens there's very little of that that happens there's very little of that that happens particularly for the enlisted force out

57:29 particularly for the enlisted force out particularly for the enlisted force out there and it's going to create a really there and it's going to create a really there and it's going to create a really exciting potentially national level exciting potentially national level exciting potentially national level opportunity for this kind of engagement. opportunity for this kind of engagement. opportunity for this kind of engagement. So that Shelby that brings me to my last So that Shelby that brings me to my last So that Shelby that brings me to my last question as we wrap up for the business question as we wrap up for the business question as we wrap up for the business leaders listening how can they partner

57:44 leaders listening how can they partner leaders listening how can they partner with Nexttop and more importantly for with Nexttop and more importantly for with Nexttop and more importantly for that E5 getting ready to leave the that E5 getting ready to leave the that E5 getting ready to leave the service who might be listening right now service who might be listening right now service who might be listening right now what is your direct message to them? what is your direct message to them? what is your direct message to them? Yeah. So our website's pretty simple and Yeah. So our website's pretty simple and Yeah. So our website's pretty simple and it's pretty straightforward and it's

57:57 it's pretty straightforward and it's it's pretty straightforward and it's www.nextopvets.org and if you go there there's essentially and if you go there there's essentially three primary functions. I'm a veteran three primary functions. I'm a veteran three primary functions. I'm a veteran looking for employment. I want to hire looking for employment. I want to hire looking for employment. I want to hire veterans or I want to donate to support veterans or I want to donate to support veterans or I want to donate to support the next stop cause. And so in every the next stop cause. And so in every the next stop cause. And so in every case, it's a very simple registration.

58:15 case, it's a very simple registration. case, it's a very simple registration. You go in there, the system collects You go in there, the system collects You go in there, the system collects data. Uh we use Salesforce as our data. Uh we use Salesforce as our data. Uh we use Salesforce as our backbone system and you'll get a backbone system and you'll get a backbone system and you'll get a immediate acknowledgement that you're immediate acknowledgement that you're immediate acknowledgement that you're registered. If you're a candidate, registered. If you're a candidate, registered. If you're a candidate, you'll be paired up with an employment you'll be paired up with an employment you'll be paired up with an employment coordinator. That employment coordinator coordinator. That employment coordinator coordinator. That employment coordinator will be your coaching guide through the

58:30 will be your coaching guide through the will be your coaching guide through the whole process. And the service is whole process. And the service is whole process. And the service is completely free. For the employers, completely free. For the employers, completely free. For the employers, you'll be registered in our database, you'll be registered in our database, you'll be registered in our database, and then you'll be reached out to by and then you'll be reached out to by and then you'll be reached out to by someone in our program's team in a someone in our program's team in a someone in our program's team in a leadership position that will set up an

58:42 leadership position that will set up an leadership position that will set up an initial call to talk about your initial call to talk about your initial call to talk about your interest, the type of roles that you're interest, the type of roles that you're interest, the type of roles that you're interested in, what your experience with interested in, what your experience with interested in, what your experience with veteran hiring is, do you need uh veteran hiring is, do you need uh veteran hiring is, do you need uh potentially some help coming in and potentially some help coming in and potentially some help coming in and identifying barriers? Are you interested

58:53 identifying barriers? Are you interested identifying barriers? Are you interested in standing up a skillbridge program? Uh in standing up a skillbridge program? Uh in standing up a skillbridge program? Uh or do you have a robust military program or do you have a robust military program or do you have a robust military program already? And we just need to already? And we just need to already? And we just need to operationalize our talent with you. And operationalize our talent with you. And operationalize our talent with you. And we do that usually through virtual we do that usually through virtual we do that usually through virtual programming and job description sharing.

59:08 programming and job description sharing. programming and job description sharing. Put those job descriptions into our Put those job descriptions into our Put those job descriptions into our system. We've got some automated system. We've got some automated system. We've got some automated matching in there that could identify uh matching in there that could identify uh matching in there that could identify uh weighted matches right away. And then weighted matches right away. And then weighted matches right away. And then there's some process that happens in there's some process that happens in there's some process that happens in there to engage that individual and see

59:20 there to engage that individual and see there to engage that individual and see if they're interested. But we've got if they're interested. But we've got if they're interested. But we've got over 600 candidates in the pipeline over 600 candidates in the pipeline over 600 candidates in the pipeline right now. So there's a chance. And then right now. So there's a chance. And then right now. So there's a chance. And then the virtual programming is usually 25 to the virtual programming is usually 25 to the virtual programming is usually 25 to 50 candidates that are expressed 50 candidates that are expressed 50 candidates that are expressed interest in either the logo, learning

59:32 interest in either the logo, learning interest in either the logo, learning more about the industry, whatever that more about the industry, whatever that more about the industry, whatever that is, and that can spark interest as well. is, and that can spark interest as well. is, and that can spark interest as well. And then we just take it from there and And then we just take it from there and And then we just take it from there and and tailor and build programs. and tailor and build programs. and tailor and build programs. >> Well, Shelby, thank you so much for >> Well, Shelby, thank you so much for >> Well, Shelby, thank you so much for coming on the show. Next stop, I look

59:43 coming on the show. Next stop, I look coming on the show. Next stop, I look forward to seeing where you guys go with forward to seeing where you guys go with forward to seeing where you guys go with this. If you have 600 in the hopper, this. If you have 600 in the hopper, this. If you have 600 in the hopper, that's impressive. So, I look forward to that's impressive. So, I look forward to that's impressive. So, I look forward to >> I'll tell you today, today we hit 604 >> I'll tell you today, today we hit 604 >> I'll tell you today, today we hit 604 placements for the year. Uh our target placements for the year. Uh our target placements for the year. Uh our target is 1100 this year which last year was

59:57 is 1100 this year which last year was is 1100 this year which last year was our all-time high at 773 and 604 was our our all-time high at 773 and 604 was our our all-time high at 773 and 604 was our precoid high. So we tied the 2019 record precoid high. So we tied the 2019 record precoid high. So we tied the 2019 record today on August 1st. today on August 1st. today on August 1st. >> Oh wow. I feel like we're tracking >> Oh wow. I feel like we're tracking >> Oh wow. I feel like we're tracking towards our 1100 goal this year and towards our 1100 goal this year and towards our 1100 goal this year and we're only planning to go higher and we're only planning to go higher and

1:00:12 we're only planning to go higher and higher. higher. higher. >> Well congratulations. You guys are >> Well congratulations. You guys are >> Well congratulations. You guys are growing fast. growing fast. growing fast. >> So we will uh yeah we'll we'll cut it >> So we will uh yeah we'll we'll cut it >> So we will uh yeah we'll we'll cut it here and uh let me clap just so I know here and uh let me clap just so I know here and uh let me clap just so I know where to cut it off. But I just wanted where to cut it off. But I just wanted where to cut it off. But I just wanted to chat with you more. Um, I I love what to chat with you more. Um, I I love what to chat with you more. Um, I I love what you guys are doing. I mean, you guys are doing. I mean, you guys are doing. I mean, >> that's a very compelling mission and

1:00:30 >> that's a very compelling mission and >> that's a very compelling mission and there's so much need for it and we we've there's so much need for it and we we've there's so much need for it and we we've had people Department of Labor has been had people Department of Labor has been had people Department of Labor has been a a pretty big granter of ours and a a pretty big granter of ours and a a pretty big granter of ours and they've asked us if we'd be willing to they've asked us if we'd be willing to they've asked us if we'd be willing to expand our program into other expand our program into other expand our program into other communities of interest. And every time

1:00:43 communities of interest. And every time communities of interest. And every time I tell them no, um, not because it I tell them no, um, not because it I tell them no, um, not because it wouldn't work or because it's not the wouldn't work or because it's not the wouldn't work or because it's not the right thing to do. And I'd be happy to right thing to do. And I'd be happy to right thing to do. And I'd be happy to coach somebody else that wanted to start coach somebody else that wanted to start coach somebody else that wanted to start a similar organization for those other a similar organization for those other a similar organization for those other communities. But you know at 1100

1:00:57 communities. But you know at 1100 communities. But you know at 1100 placements out of 175,000 enlisted placements out of 175,000 enlisted placements out of 175,000 enlisted people coming out of service this year people coming out of service this year people coming out of service this year and about 7 million post 911 working age and about 7 million post 911 working age and about 7 million post 911 working age enlisted out there. Not that we ever enlisted out there. Not that we ever enlisted out there. Not that we ever intend to be or could be the entire intend to be or could be the entire intend to be or could be the entire solution, but there's just so much more

1:01:12 solution, but there's just so much more solution, but there's just so much more work we can do in this vertical and work we can do in this vertical and work we can do in this vertical and we're good at that. So we need to stay we're good at that. So we need to stay we're good at that. So we need to stay focused on that. focused on that. focused on that. >> I need to introduce you to Justin >> I need to introduce you to Justin >> I need to introduce you to Justin Henderson. And if you don't already know Henderson. And if you don't already know Henderson. And if you don't already know Justin, he lives out of boss Boston and Justin, he lives out of boss Boston and Justin, he lives out of boss Boston and I think it's called um I think it's called um I think it's called um >> Veterans Hiring Solutions. Um >> Veterans Hiring Solutions. Um

1:01:28 >> Veterans Hiring Solutions. Um >> he he's on LinkedIn like you. He's got >> he he's on LinkedIn like you. He's got >> he he's on LinkedIn like you. He's got thousands of followers and he's doing thousands of followers and he's doing thousands of followers and he's doing well. But it's all it's all about kind well. But it's all it's all about kind well. But it's all it's all about kind of what you're doing focusing more on of what you're doing focusing more on of what you're doing focusing more on the blue collar job. the blue collar job. the blue collar job. >> He's he's working with industry and >> He's he's working with industry and

1:01:40 >> He's he's working with industry and explaining what particular words mean in explaining what particular words mean in explaining what particular words mean in the military and what that equivalent is the military and what that equivalent is the military and what that equivalent is on the civilian side. And then he's on the civilian side. And then he's on the civilian side. And then he's interviewing these, you know, like these interviewing these, you know, like these interviewing these, you know, like these small manufacturing plants, figuring out small manufacturing plants, figuring out small manufacturing plants, figuring out exactly what they're looking for, and

1:01:53 exactly what they're looking for, and exactly what they're looking for, and then saying, "Hey, I've got people that then saying, "Hey, I've got people that then saying, "Hey, I've got people that can do this for you." And so they're can do this for you." And so they're can do this for you." And so they're creating these three to five videos with creating these three to five videos with creating these three to five videos with these small business explaining what these small business explaining what these small business explaining what they're looking for. And then Justin they're looking for. And then Justin they're looking for. And then Justin helps them translate their resume, their

1:02:07 helps them translate their resume, their helps them translate their resume, their language into that particular job just language into that particular job just language into that particular job just to get to the HR. I mean, the the to get to the HR. I mean, the the to get to the HR. I mean, the the manufacturing teams already, manufacturing teams already, manufacturing teams already, but they got to get to get through the, but they got to get to get through the, but they got to get to get through the, >> you know, the the HR firewall. >> you know, the the HR firewall. >> you know, the the HR firewall. >> It's real, I'll tell you. And the bigger

1:02:23 >> It's real, I'll tell you. And the bigger >> It's real, I'll tell you. And the bigger the company, the the more real and the company, the the more real and the company, the the more real and powerful it is, I'll tell you that, too. powerful it is, I'll tell you that, too. powerful it is, I'll tell you that, too. But small and mediums do tend to be the But small and mediums do tend to be the But small and mediums do tend to be the lion share of who hires our talent and lion share of who hires our talent and lion share of who hires our talent and who we work with just because uh a lot who we work with just because uh a lot who we work with just because uh a lot of the the real work gets done by my

1:02:37 of the the real work gets done by my of the the real work gets done by my employment coordinators out there in the employment coordinators out there in the employment coordinators out there in the field and they're part listed guys who field and they're part listed guys who field and they're part listed guys who are just concentrated on getting their are just concentrated on getting their are just concentrated on getting their candidates ready and getting them candidates ready and getting them candidates ready and getting them connected to a job, right? That's the connected to a job, right? That's the connected to a job, right? That's the focus and they're not going to go sit

1:02:47 focus and they're not going to go sit focus and they're not going to go sit down with HR and talk about what all the down with HR and talk about what all the down with HR and talk about what all the different barriers are and putting a different barriers are and putting a different barriers are and putting a program in place in most cases. We we program in place in most cases. We we program in place in most cases. We we have certain examples like Shell and have certain examples like Shell and have certain examples like Shell and Chevron and companies like that that we Chevron and companies like that that we Chevron and companies like that that we work with that we spend that kind of

1:02:59 work with that we spend that kind of work with that we spend that kind of time on, but it's uh it's very draining. time on, but it's uh it's very draining. time on, but it's uh it's very draining. >> Yeah. [laughter] Well, you know, as we

63:00 The Roadmap for Anyone Facing Transition

1:03:04 >> Yeah. [laughter] Well, you know, as we >> Yeah. [laughter] Well, you know, as we as we finish up here, um as we finish up here, um as we finish up here, um >> I I went through Mike's program as well, >> I I went through Mike's program as well, >> I I went through Mike's program as well, and I was the first I was the first Air and I was the first I was the first Air and I was the first I was the first Air Force guy to ever go through his Force guy to ever go through his Force guy to ever go through his program, and he's the one that I really program, and he's the one that I really program, and he's the one that I really linked in training to heart.

1:03:17 linked in training to heart. linked in training to heart. >> And then I also went through the Commit >> And then I also went through the Commit >> And then I also went through the Commit Foundation, and the Commit Foundation, I Foundation, and the Commit Foundation, I Foundation, and the Commit Foundation, I mean, it was just it was phenomenal. I mean, it was just it was phenomenal. I mean, it was just it was phenomenal. I mean, it was light cuz I would have mean, it was light cuz I would have mean, it was light cuz I would have never been doing this stuff that we're never been doing this stuff that we're never been doing this stuff that we're doing right now if it wasn't for Asian.

1:03:29 doing right now if it wasn't for Asian. doing right now if it wasn't for Asian. >> I've always been a photographer, so I >> I've always been a photographer, so I >> I've always been a photographer, so I was going to still do the photography was going to still do the photography was going to still do the photography thing. Um, but uh yeah, when it came to thing. Um, but uh yeah, when it came to thing. Um, but uh yeah, when it came to storytelling and getting to know other storytelling and getting to know other storytelling and getting to know other >> military veterans out there and try to >> military veterans out there and try to >> military veterans out there and try to help them, I hadn't even thought about

1:03:41 help them, I hadn't even thought about help them, I hadn't even thought about it until uh until I met it until uh until I met it until uh until I met >> Emit pulled it out of you. >> Emit pulled it out of you. >> Emit pulled it out of you. >> Yeah, commit pulled it out of me and I'm >> Yeah, commit pulled it out of me and I'm >> Yeah, commit pulled it out of me and I'm thankful they did. Like I said, I'm thankful they did. Like I said, I'm thankful they did. Like I said, I'm still still a little over still still a little over still still a little over pocket to make this happen. But I think pocket to make this happen. But I think

1:03:52 pocket to make this happen. But I think eventually I told people some some eventually I told people some some eventually I told people some some billionaire billionaire billionaire will approach. I enjoy interviewing whoever I want. I I enjoy interviewing whoever I want. I don't want to talk to a board. For don't want to talk to a board. For don't want to talk to a board. For instance, for I interviewed a openly instance, for I interviewed a openly instance, for I interviewed a openly trans army and I shared some of my trans army and I shared some of my trans army and I shared some of my mentors and they said, "Why would you do mentors and they said, "Why would you do

1:04:16 mentors and they said, "Why would you do that? Why would you do that? You'll lose that? Why would you do that? You'll lose that? Why would you do that? You'll lose people." people." people." >> I was like, but I think I think what's >> I was like, but I think I think what's >> I was like, but I think I think what's important is this is a veteran that's important is this is a veteran that's important is this is a veteran that's trying to get their story out. People trying to get their story out. People trying to get their story out. People know, hey, they're different than know, hey, they're different than know, hey, they're different than there's really no need to be fearful.

1:04:30 there's really no need to be fearful. there's really no need to be fearful. And I thought, okay, so if I was a And I thought, okay, so if I was a And I thought, okay, so if I was a nonprofit, I would interview her. And I nonprofit, I would interview her. And I nonprofit, I would interview her. And I think I just I would rather be able to think I just I would rather be able to think I just I would rather be able to do it. do it. do it. >> And then I said I'll be openly >> And then I said I'll be openly >> And then I said I'll be openly transparent. You can see all my transparent. You can see all my transparent. You can see all my financials and any profit that's

1:04:44 financials and any profit that's financials and any profit that's actually from this will go towards actually from this will go towards actually from this will go towards either either tech refreshes issues either either tech refreshes issues either either tech refreshes issues increasing my capabilities increasing my capabilities increasing my capabilities and often veterans organizations. this and often veterans organizations. this and often veterans organizations. this is not my my you know my bread and is not my my you know my bread and is not my my you know my bread and butter plan. butter plan. butter plan. >> You know I've heard people use nonprofit

1:05:00 >> You know I've heard people use nonprofit >> You know I've heard people use nonprofit and not forprofit and I'm not sure if and not forprofit and I'm not sure if and not forprofit and I'm not sure if people understand if there is a people understand if there is a people understand if there is a difference but it sounds like the way difference but it sounds like the way difference but it sounds like the way you're doing this is more of a not you're doing this is more of a not you're doing this is more of a not forprofit. forprofit. forprofit. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It is technically a for-profit business >> It is technically a for-profit business

1:05:12 >> It is technically a for-profit business but you you don't intend to make the but you you don't intend to make the but you you don't intend to make the profit, right? And so I think, you know, profit, right? And so I think, you know, profit, right? And so I think, you know, I don't pretend to understand what it I don't pretend to understand what it I don't pretend to understand what it takes to to run a podcast, but I takes to to run a podcast, but I takes to to run a podcast, but I appreciate what you're doing. And you'd appreciate what you're doing. And you'd appreciate what you're doing. And you'd be surprised if um you ask how many be surprised if um you ask how many be surprised if um you ask how many people will be willing to, you know, it people will be willing to, you know, it people will be willing to, you know, it might not be a billionaire, right? But

1:05:32 might not be a billionaire, right? But might not be a billionaire, right? But it might be a number of sympathetic it might be a number of sympathetic it might be a number of sympathetic companies that would be willing to do companies that would be willing to do companies that would be willing to do some low level of sponsorship like, some low level of sponsorship like, some low level of sponsorship like, "Hey, if you give me $1,000, that'll "Hey, if you give me $1,000, that'll "Hey, if you give me $1,000, that'll cover oneth of my annual programming." cover oneth of my annual programming." cover oneth of my annual programming." Right. And yeah, and that was that was

1:05:45 Right. And yeah, and that was that was Right. And yeah, and that was that was >> 20 of those. >> 20 of those. >> 20 of those. >> That was the other thing I was thinking. >> That was the other thing I was thinking. >> That was the other thing I was thinking. I'm talking to my brother. He's a senior I'm talking to my brother. He's a senior I'm talking to my brother. He's a senior exe executive at Amazon. I said, "Hey, exe executive at Amazon. I said, "Hey, exe executive at Amazon. I said, "Hey, Nick, you know, I'm not trying to get Nick, you know, I'm not trying to get Nick, you know, I'm not trying to get rich with this, but I said, "What if I

1:05:55 rich with this, but I said, "What if I rich with this, but I said, "What if I found you found you found you >> employees Amazon eventually hired? How >> employees Amazon eventually hired? How >> employees Amazon eventually hired? How much are you paying, you know, headers?" much are you paying, you know, headers?" much are you paying, you know, headers?" I said, "Most headun% I said, "Most headun% I said, "Most headun% of the first salary." So I said I said of the first salary." So I said I said of the first salary." So I said I said Amazon my you know $20,000 sponsor now Amazon my you know $20,000 sponsor now Amazon my you know $20,000 sponsor now you could be one of the commercials that you could be one of the commercials that you could be one of the commercials that I talk about you could also be the first

1:06:20 I talk about you could also be the first I talk about you could also be the first business I try to generate business for business I try to generate business for business I try to generate business for right and my brother Nick was like I got right and my brother Nick was like I got right and my brother Nick was like I got it that's a really good idea so he said it that's a really good idea so he said it that's a really good idea so he said just keep working on what you're doing just keep working on what you're doing just keep working on what you're doing if it builds any traction the more you if it builds any traction the more you if it builds any traction the more you do the more content you create the

1:06:34 do the more content you create the do the more content you create the easier it is sell that idea to some of easier it is sell that idea to some of easier it is sell that idea to some of the 500 Yeah. And Amazon's a great example. I Yeah. And Amazon's a great example. I think we're approaching 50 all-time think we're approaching 50 all-time think we're approaching 50 all-time highs with Amazon, but um they're all highs with Amazon, but um they're all highs with Amazon, but um they're all over the country. And so I took that over the country. And so I took that over the country. And so I took that data and I went and and I know uh do you data and I went and and I know uh do you

1:06:52 data and I went and and I know uh do you know Bo Higgins? know Bo Higgins? know Bo Higgins? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, Bo had been at Amazon and >> So, you know, Bo had been at Amazon and >> So, you know, Bo had been at Amazon and when I met him and then he moved on and when I met him and then he moved on and when I met him and then he moved on and he's from New Orleans and so I'm down he's from New Orleans and so I'm down he's from New Orleans and so I'm down there a lot and we do things. comes to there a lot and we do things. comes to there a lot and we do things. comes to our events and stuff and I was like who

1:07:05 our events and stuff and I was like who our events and stuff and I was like who do I need to talk to at Amazon about the do I need to talk to at Amazon about the do I need to talk to at Amazon about the fact that you know we've put 50 people fact that you know we've put 50 people fact that you know we've put 50 people into their company and I'd like to see into their company and I'd like to see into their company and I'd like to see if there's an opportunity to be a little if there's an opportunity to be a little if there's an opportunity to be a little bit more intentional and partner with bit more intentional and partner with bit more intentional and partner with them and um they've been incredibly

1:07:18 them and um they've been incredibly them and um they've been incredibly squishy jello squishy jello squishy jello [laughter] very difficult even though I met and sat very difficult even though I met and sat down and had coffee and laid everything down and had coffee and laid everything down and had coffee and laid everything out like Ian I can't remember Ian's last out like Ian I can't remember Ian's last out like Ian I can't remember Ian's last name name name um but he was the he was the Amazon like um but he was the he was the Amazon like um but he was the he was the Amazon like military guy. military guy. military guy. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, my brother my brother is

1:07:37 >> Yeah. Yeah. So, my brother my brother is >> Yeah. Yeah. So, my brother my brother is um he's one of the I think he's um he's one of the I think he's um he's one of the I think he's [clears throat] employee number 8,000. He's a senior executive makes millions He's a senior executive makes millions of dollars a year. of dollars a year. of dollars a year. >> Knows Bezos >> Knows Bezos >> Knows Bezos and even him and even him and even him out of him. When I went to his office in out of him. When I went to his office in out of him. When I went to his office in Seattle, you mentioned primary primary Seattle, you mentioned primary primary

1:07:53 Seattle, you mentioned primary primary >> the primary office right here. My >> the primary office right here. My >> the primary office right here. My brother's brother's office right here brother's brother's office right here brother's brother's office right here Amazon TV Amazon TV Amazon TV whatever their television television whatever their television television whatever their television television production company. production company. production company. >> So just to give you an idea where my >> So just to give you an idea where my >> So just to give you an idea where my just to give you an idea where my

1:08:09 just to give you an idea where my just to give you an idea where my brother's office is and yeah so I'm like brother's office is and yeah so I'm like brother's office is and yeah so I'm like oh my god this is like budget dust dust oh my god this is like budget dust dust oh my god this is like budget dust dust you you you >> right. So, rolling back real quick to >> right. So, rolling back real quick to >> right. So, rolling back real quick to Norm uh Mike Wallace, he when I was Norm uh Mike Wallace, he when I was Norm uh Mike Wallace, he when I was doing the phone interviews with the guy doing the phone interviews with the guy doing the phone interviews with the guy that was running Amazon Air, he

1:08:27 that was running Amazon Air, he that was running Amazon Air, he mentioned they had just hired a Navy mentioned they had just hired a Navy mentioned they had just hired a Navy Kagg that was going to come in and do Kagg that was going to come in and do Kagg that was going to come in and do the operational side of it. And since I the operational side of it. And since I the operational side of it. And since I never took the interview, Chapp got me never took the interview, Chapp got me never took the interview, Chapp got me the option with ATI and I told Amazon, the option with ATI and I told Amazon, the option with ATI and I told Amazon, "Sorry, it's not going to work." Um, I

1:08:40 "Sorry, it's not going to work." Um, I "Sorry, it's not going to work." Um, I never got to meet Norm, but that was never got to meet Norm, but that was never got to meet Norm, but that was him. And then when I started at Next him. And then when I started at Next him. And then when I started at Next Stop, I saw what he was doing on Stop, I saw what he was doing on Stop, I saw what he was doing on LinkedIn on Bluewater. So, I just LinkedIn on Bluewater. So, I just LinkedIn on Bluewater. So, I just reached out and I was like, "Hey, I reached out and I was like, "Hey, I reached out and I was like, "Hey, I don't know you, but we're Navy pilots don't know you, but we're Navy pilots don't know you, but we're Navy pilots and I'm going to do this." And so, we and I'm going to do this." And so, we and I'm going to do this." And so, we we've developed a pretty good friendship

1:08:53 we've developed a pretty good friendship we've developed a pretty good friendship and he's bringing me out to every time and he's bringing me out to every time and he's bringing me out to every time he comes up to Annapolis for this work he comes up to Annapolis for this work he comes up to Annapolis for this work that he's doing at the Naval Academy, I that he's doing at the Naval Academy, I that he's doing at the Naval Academy, I go to his socials to see him and stuff. go to his socials to see him and stuff. go to his socials to see him and stuff. And uh we were talking last time and we And uh we were talking last time and we And uh we were talking last time and we put two and two together that I would

1:09:06 put two and two together that I would put two and two together that I would have been working with him at Amazon have been working with him at Amazon have been working with him at Amazon Air. He was the ke Air. He was the ke Air. He was the ke >> Yeah. I remember him sharing the Amazon >> Yeah. I remember him sharing the Amazon >> Yeah. I remember him sharing the Amazon story and how much he hated it. story and how much he hated it. story and how much he hated it. >> Yeah. Well, my old commodore Todd >> Yeah. Well, my old commodore Todd >> Yeah. Well, my old commodore Todd Flannry um now works in my old job at

1:09:19 Flannry um now works in my old job at Flannry um now works in my old job at ATI and he was at Amazon for a number of ATI and he was at Amazon for a number of ATI and he was at Amazon for a number of years in a fulfillment center on one of years in a fulfillment center on one of years in a fulfillment center on one of their leadership development programs their leadership development programs their leadership development programs and he's a retired '06 retired out of and he's a retired '06 retired out of and he's a retired '06 retired out of ledge affairs goes to work at Amazon a ledge affairs goes to work at Amazon a ledge affairs goes to work at Amazon a fulfillment center as a leadership

1:09:33 fulfillment center as a leadership fulfillment center as a leadership development guy. I was like what made development guy. I was like what made development guy. I was like what made you think that was a good idea for you think that was a good idea for you think that was a good idea for so much happier now. so much happier now. so much happier now. >> Yeah. No thank you. So yeah, I know >> Yeah. No thank you. So yeah, I know >> Yeah. No thank you. So yeah, I know Michael. Michael. Michael. >> Oh, I know Todd. Yeah, I know. >> Oh, I know Todd. Yeah, I know. >> Oh, I know Todd. Yeah, I know. >> Yeah, he was in Navy Ledge Affairs.

1:09:47 >> Yeah, he was in Navy Ledge Affairs. >> Yeah, he was in Navy Ledge Affairs. >> Yeah. Yeah, I forgot. >> Yeah. Yeah, I forgot. >> Yeah. Yeah, I forgot. >> Yeah, he's at ATI now. >> Yeah, he's at ATI now. >> Yeah, he's at ATI now. >> Okay. Yeah, perfect. The company that's >> Okay. Yeah, perfect. The company that's >> Okay. Yeah, perfect. The company that's headquartered out of Oregon, right? headquartered out of Oregon, right? headquartered out of Oregon, right? >> Uh ATI was headquartered in Pittsburgh. >> Uh ATI was headquartered in Pittsburgh. >> Uh ATI was headquartered in Pittsburgh. They moved their headquarters to Dallas

1:09:57 They moved their headquarters to Dallas They moved their headquarters to Dallas in the last year and a half because they in the last year and a half because they in the last year and a half because they rebranded as an aerospace and defense rebranded as an aerospace and defense rebranded as an aerospace and defense company, but he's in the Crystal City company, but he's in the Crystal City company, but he's in the Crystal City Defense Office where I worked at. Defense Office where I worked at. Defense Office where I worked at. >> Yeah, Todd was working on And Todd's a >> Yeah, Todd was working on And Todd's a >> Yeah, Todd was working on And Todd's a former helicopter pilot as well.

1:10:08 former helicopter pilot as well. former helicopter pilot as well. >> Yeah, that's what I said. He was my >> Yeah, that's what I said. He was my >> Yeah, that's what I said. He was my commoder. commoder. commoder. >> Oh, I got you. Okay. Yeah, I do know >> Oh, I got you. Okay. Yeah, I do know >> Oh, I got you. Okay. Yeah, I do know Todd. Okay. Small world. Todd. Okay. Small world. Todd. Okay. Small world. >> All right. Well, show me. >> All right. Well, show me. >> All right. Well, show me. >> Yeah. Sounds like we got a lot of >> Yeah. Sounds like we got a lot of >> Yeah. Sounds like we got a lot of commons. commons. commons. >> We do. We do. Well, thank you so much. >> We do. We do. Well, thank you so much. >> We do. We do. Well, thank you so much. >> And are you in DC?

1:10:18 >> And are you in DC? >> And are you in DC? >> I am. I live in Fairfax. I live right >> I am. I live in Fairfax. I live right >> I am. I live in Fairfax. I live right next to George Mason University. Oh, next to George Mason University. Oh, next to George Mason University. Oh, >> okay. Well, I'm down in the Fort Hunt >> okay. Well, I'm down in the Fort Hunt >> okay. Well, I'm down in the Fort Hunt area by Mount Vernon. area by Mount Vernon. area by Mount Vernon. >> Okay. Not far at all. >> Okay. Not far at all. >> Okay. Not far at all. >> So, yeah, we'll have to get together at >> So, yeah, we'll have to get together at

1:10:29 >> So, yeah, we'll have to get together at a event or something. a event or something. a event or something. >> Sounds [clears throat] good. Thank you, >> Sounds [clears throat] good. Thank you, >> Sounds [clears throat] good. Thank you, Shelby. Shelby. Shelby. >> Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Thank you, >> Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Thank you, >> Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Thank you, Michael. Michael. Michael. >> You as well. Thank you. >> You as well. Thank you. >> You as well. Thank you. >> All right. Cheers.