She Led F-15 Maintenance Squadrons. Then the Silent Enemy Found Her

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31,650 words · 50:56 runtime

00:00 Introduction — Strength as a Default Setting

0:02 For 20 years, she wore a mask. Not the For 20 years, she wore a mask. Not the uniform, the rank, or the call sign that uniform, the rank, or the call sign that uniform, the rank, or the call sign that made her a legend among maintainers. The made her a legend among maintainers. The made her a legend among maintainers. The other mask, the one that said, "I've got other mask, the one that said, "I've got other mask, the one that said, "I've got this. I'm fine. Everything's under this. I'm fine. Everything's under this. I'm fine. Everything's under control." Lieutenant Colonel Angela control." Lieutenant Colonel Angela control." Lieutenant Colonel Angela Strike Stevens. She led hundreds of

0:16 Strike Stevens. She led hundreds of Strike Stevens. She led hundreds of airmen, commanded maintenance squadrons, airmen, commanded maintenance squadrons, airmen, commanded maintenance squadrons, keeping F-15 Strike Eagles combat ready. keeping F-15 Strike Eagles combat ready. keeping F-15 Strike Eagles combat ready. She advised the chief of staff of the She advised the chief of staff of the She advised the chief of staff of the Air Force inside the Pentagon. She was Air Force inside the Pentagon. She was Air Force inside the Pentagon. She was one of only three women among 350 one of only three women among 350 one of only three women among 350 maintainers in Afghanistan. Survived

0:30 maintainers in Afghanistan. Survived maintainers in Afghanistan. Survived traumatic physical injuries, then traumatic physical injuries, then traumatic physical injuries, then battled through 10 years of infertility. battled through 10 years of infertility. battled through 10 years of infertility. And then she had a baby. The thing she And then she had a baby. The thing she And then she had a baby. The thing she fought a decade to achieve and it almost fought a decade to achieve and it almost fought a decade to achieve and it almost killed her. Not because of the birth, killed her. Not because of the birth, killed her. Not because of the birth, because of what came after. Severe

0:46 because of what came after. Severe because of what came after. Severe postpartum depression, crippling postpartum depression, crippling postpartum depression, crippling anxiety, and something she couldn't name anxiety, and something she couldn't name anxiety, and something she couldn't name for an entire year. suicidal ideiation for an entire year. suicidal ideiation for an entire year. suicidal ideiation every minute of every day. Here's the every minute of every day. Here's the every minute of every day. Here's the part that should terrify us. She was part that should terrify us. She was part that should terrify us. She was isolated in highprofile staff jobs at

1:02 isolated in highprofile staff jobs at isolated in highprofile staff jobs at the Pentagon, away from her teams, the Pentagon, away from her teams, the Pentagon, away from her teams, trapped in spreadsheets and cubicles. trapped in spreadsheets and cubicles. trapped in spreadsheets and cubicles. And because her default was the mask, And because her default was the mask, And because her default was the mask, the high-erforming leader was silently the high-erforming leader was silently the high-erforming leader was silently drowning. No one noticed a difference. drowning. No one noticed a difference. drowning. No one noticed a difference. She didn't let them. In this episode,

1:15 She didn't let them. In this episode, She didn't let them. In this episode, Strike opens up about why her call sign Strike opens up about why her call sign Strike opens up about why her call sign strike means trust and connection and strike means trust and connection and strike means trust and connection and why she needed it most. the airman she why she needed it most. the airman she why she needed it most. the airman she lost to suicide and the commander who lost to suicide and the commander who lost to suicide and the commander who didn't understand it until she lived it. didn't understand it until she lived it. didn't understand it until she lived it. The year of suicidal thoughts while

1:28 The year of suicidal thoughts while The year of suicidal thoughts while maintaining high performance in the maintaining high performance in the maintaining high performance in the Pentagon. The personal article that went Pentagon. The personal article that went Pentagon. The personal article that went viral and the thousands of silent viral and the thousands of silent viral and the thousands of silent leaders who responded. Why civil leaders who responded. Why civil leaders who responded. Why civil servants and leaders are dying at rates servants and leaders are dying at rates servants and leaders are dying at rates we're not even tracking. If you've ever

1:39 we're not even tracking. If you've ever we're not even tracking. If you've ever felt like you've had it all together. If felt like you've had it all together. If felt like you've had it all together. If you've ever wondered if asking for help you've ever wondered if asking for help you've ever wondered if asking for help makes you weak. If you've been told that makes you weak. If you've been told that makes you weak. If you've been told that leaders don't struggle, this leaders don't struggle, this leaders don't struggle, this conversation will change how you think conversation will change how you think conversation will change how you think about strength. I went out and I walked

1:50 about strength. I went out and I walked about strength. I went out and I walked the flight line and I didn't see any. the flight line and I didn't see any. the flight line and I didn't see any. And we had 350 people on our team and I And we had 350 people on our team and I And we had 350 people on our team and I was the only leader. was the only leader. was the only leader. >> Welcome to Voice for Valor. An welcome to Voice for Valor. I'm so An welcome to Voice for Valor. I'm so happy to have you you here today just to happy to have you you here today just to happy to have you you here today just to know the fact that uh we have a we have know the fact that uh we have a we have know the fact that uh we have a we have a past right from your retirement to me a past right from your retirement to me a past right from your retirement to me working with your husband and oi policy

2:24 working with your husband and oi policy working with your husband and oi policy >> and it's just it's such a pleasure to >> and it's just it's such a pleasure to >> and it's just it's such a pleasure to chat with fellow veterans that are chat with fellow veterans that are chat with fellow veterans that are trying to make a difference in in the trying to make a difference in in the trying to make a difference in in the world today. So thank you so much for world today. So thank you so much for world today. So thank you so much for being here. being here. being here. >> Yeah, Mike, thank you for having me. I >> Yeah, Mike, thank you for having me. I

2:34 >> Yeah, Mike, thank you for having me. I think those intersections always happen think those intersections always happen think those intersections always happen for a reason and you and I have had a for a reason and you and I have had a for a reason and you and I have had a few chats that prove that that is the few chats that prove that that is the few chats that prove that that is the case. So I'm grateful to be here. case. So I'm grateful to be here. case. So I'm grateful to be here. >> Awesome. Well, I have to start with >> Awesome. Well, I have to start with >> Awesome. Well, I have to start with this. Um, call signs. Call signs are a

2:45 this. Um, call signs. Call signs are a this. Um, call signs. Call signs are a common thing in some of our military common thing in some of our military common thing in some of our military culture. I was fortunate enough to avoid culture. I was fortunate enough to avoid culture. I was fortunate enough to avoid the call sign even though some things the call sign even though some things the call sign even though some things were given to me. But my first question were given to me. But my first question were given to me. But my first question for you today is where does strike and for you today is where does strike and for you today is where does strike and transformation

2:59 transformation transformation come from that call sign and when did come from that call sign and when did come from that call sign and when did you realize your calling was about you realize your calling was about you realize your calling was about transformation? transformation? transformation? >> Yeah. So, I actually come from a >> Yeah. So, I actually come from a >> Yeah. So, I actually come from a community where call signs are not the community where call signs are not the community where call signs are not the norm. So it was a unique point in my norm. So it was a unique point in my norm. So it was a unique point in my journey later in my career where I

3:13 journey later in my career where I journey later in my career where I earned and was given the call sign. Um I earned and was given the call sign. Um I earned and was given the call sign. Um I worked in aircraft maintenance uh for 20 worked in aircraft maintenance uh for 20 worked in aircraft maintenance uh for 20 years as you know and was in an years as you know and was in an years as you know and was in an organizational experiment where they organizational experiment where they organizational experiment where they merged the fighter squadron and merged the fighter squadron and merged the fighter squadron and maintenance which they've done over the

3:24 maintenance which they've done over the maintenance which they've done over the years and towards the end of that years and towards the end of that years and towards the end of that assignment um they sprung a naming assignment um they sprung a naming assignment um they sprung a naming ceremony on me we'll just say as I was ceremony on me we'll just say as I was ceremony on me we'll just say as I was getting ready to leave that unit and it getting ready to leave that unit and it getting ready to leave that unit and it really symbolized for me the trust and really symbolized for me the trust and really symbolized for me the trust and connection over the course of a really

3:39 connection over the course of a really connection over the course of a really difficult assignment um where we difficult assignment um where we difficult assignment um where we overcame a lot and went through a lot overcame a lot and went through a lot overcame a lot and went through a lot together. You know, there's there's together. You know, there's there's together. You know, there's there's always stories behind a call sign. So, always stories behind a call sign. So, always stories behind a call sign. So, it was we were working with the F-15 it was we were working with the F-15 it was we were working with the F-15 Strike Eagle. And I was an old

3:52 Strike Eagle. And I was an old Strike Eagle. And I was an old lieutenant colonel at this point, not lieutenant colonel at this point, not lieutenant colonel at this point, not some young lieutenant coming in to a some young lieutenant coming in to a some young lieutenant coming in to a naming, and I they said I was the oldest naming, and I they said I was the oldest naming, and I they said I was the oldest uh officer uh longest tenure officer to uh officer uh longest tenure officer to uh officer uh longest tenure officer to have maintained the strike eagle. They have maintained the strike eagle. They have maintained the strike eagle. They said they liked that I would strike to

4:03 said they liked that I would strike to said they liked that I would strike to attack problems, but they wanted to go attack problems, but they wanted to go attack problems, but they wanted to go on strike from the meetings I would make on strike from the meetings I would make on strike from the meetings I would make them have to attack all the problems. them have to attack all the problems. them have to attack all the problems. So, those were the layers they told me. So, those were the layers they told me. So, those were the layers they told me. So, yeah. And then it it gained meaning So, yeah. And then it it gained meaning So, yeah. And then it it gained meaning for me in ways I did not expect because

4:15 for me in ways I did not expect because for me in ways I did not expect because you know you get a call saying that late you know you get a call saying that late you know you get a call saying that late in your career most people don't know in your career most people don't know in your career most people don't know you that way when I stepped into a world you that way when I stepped into a world you that way when I stepped into a world where I was leading you know some where I was leading you know some where I was leading you know some eventually 500 volunteers in mental eventually 500 volunteers in mental eventually 500 volunteers in mental health wellness suicide prevention and

4:28 health wellness suicide prevention and health wellness suicide prevention and we had generals we had airmen we had we had generals we had airmen we had we had generals we had airmen we had spouses we had retirees and in a really spouses we had retirees and in a really spouses we had retirees and in a really interesting way the call sign kind of interesting way the call sign kind of interesting way the call sign kind of neutralized all of the status and rank neutralized all of the status and rank neutralized all of the status and rank and hesitation that might come along and hesitation that might come along and hesitation that might come along with trying to engage people

4:42 with trying to engage people with trying to engage people authentically in a space like that. And authentically in a space like that. And authentically in a space like that. And the call sign became a symbol of trust the call sign became a symbol of trust the call sign became a symbol of trust because when you step into a room and because when you step into a room and because when you step into a room and you're trying to take away rank and you're trying to take away rank and you're trying to take away rank and you're trying to take away the pieces of you're trying to take away the pieces of you're trying to take away the pieces of someone's identity that might shut

4:53 someone's identity that might shut someone's identity that might shut someone else down. U that's the call someone else down. U that's the call someone else down. U that's the call sign carried through into that work and sign carried through into that work and sign carried through into that work and became very special to me. you know, became very special to me. you know, became very special to me. you know, when I speak on tougher topics or just

05:00 Leading F-15 Maintenance Squadrons and the Pentagon

5:01 when I speak on tougher topics or just when I speak on tougher topics or just engaging teams, it reminds me why I do engaging teams, it reminds me why I do engaging teams, it reminds me why I do what I do and the kind of trust you can what I do and the kind of trust you can what I do and the kind of trust you can build when you strip all of those labels build when you strip all of those labels build when you strip all of those labels away and just bring the best version of away and just bring the best version of away and just bring the best version of you into a room. Um, especially on some you into a room. Um, especially on some you into a room. Um, especially on some of those tougher topics.

5:14 of those tougher topics. of those tougher topics. >> You mentioning the call signs and how >> You mentioning the call signs and how >> You mentioning the call signs and how that kind of levels the playing field. I that kind of levels the playing field. I that kind of levels the playing field. I was deployed in Africa with the Strike was deployed in Africa with the Strike was deployed in Africa with the Strike Eagles Eagles Eagles >> and I was deployed with Stubby. He was >> and I was deployed with Stubby. He was >> and I was deployed with Stubby. He was the commander of the F-15 unit there the commander of the F-15 unit there

5:25 the commander of the F-15 unit there that was with us. And we were on a call that was with us. And we were on a call that was with us. And we were on a call with General Lofrren. And I forgot I had with General Lofrren. And I forgot I had with General Lofrren. And I forgot I had been calling him Stubby for so long that been calling him Stubby for so long that been calling him Stubby for so long that I forgot his real name. So we're we're I forgot his real name. So we're we're I forgot his real name. So we're we're in this meeting with a twostar general in this meeting with a twostar general in this meeting with a twostar general and I think Stuby's a lieutenant colonel

5:37 and I think Stuby's a lieutenant colonel and I think Stuby's a lieutenant colonel at the time and I'm a and I'm a major. at the time and I'm a and I'm a major. at the time and I'm a and I'm a major. And I said, "Well, sir, like Stubby was And I said, "Well, sir, like Stubby was And I said, "Well, sir, like Stubby was saying earlier." And then we got we went saying earlier." And then we got we went saying earlier." And then we got we went along in the conversation. And then along in the conversation. And then along in the conversation. And then after the brief, he pulled me aside and after the brief, he pulled me aside and after the brief, he pulled me aside and he's like, "You can't use my call sign

5:48 he's like, "You can't use my call sign he's like, "You can't use my call sign when we're talking to a general when we're talking to a general when we're talking to a general officer." I was like, "Wait a second. officer." I was like, "Wait a second. officer." I was like, "Wait a second. Here we are talking about all these Here we are talking about all these Here we are talking about all these times you can call my call sign and you times you can call my call sign and you times you can call my call sign and you know we're equals here know we're equals here know we're equals here >> and then the time that I actually do it >> and then the time that I actually do it

5:58 >> and then the time that I actually do it in a meeting I get no in a meeting I get no in a meeting I get no >> I get uh >> I get uh >> I get uh >> I can't tell you the number of times I >> I can't tell you the number of times I >> I can't tell you the number of times I mean you know my husband is in that mean you know my husband is in that mean you know my husband is in that strike eagle community as an operator uh strike eagle community as an operator uh strike eagle community as an operator uh he'll start talking about somebody or he'll start talking about somebody or he'll start talking about somebody or say hey can you reach out to somebody

6:10 say hey can you reach out to somebody say hey can you reach out to somebody and I go like do you know the name first and I go like do you know the name first and I go like do you know the name first last give me anything and there's last give me anything and there's last give me anything and there's nothing and it's you know we don't exist nothing and it's you know we don't exist nothing and it's you know we don't exist in the world you know in those formal in the world you know in those formal in the world you know in those formal circles without our name and identity circles without our name and identity circles without our name and identity But um in the world of call signs

6:22 But um in the world of call signs But um in the world of call signs sometime that that's that's really your sometime that that's that's really your sometime that that's that's really your identity and it shapes who people see identity and it shapes who people see identity and it shapes who people see you as and how they know you and the you as and how they know you and the you as and how they know you and the rest kind of fades away sometimes. rest kind of fades away sometimes. rest kind of fades away sometimes. >> Seems like also that that call sign that >> Seems like also that that call sign that >> Seems like also that that call sign that they gave you was a

6:34 they gave you was a they gave you was a >> was a a passage like you said of trust. >> was a a passage like you said of trust. >> was a a passage like you said of trust. It's like okay she's part of the team It's like okay she's part of the team It's like okay she's part of the team now because I'm curious being a woman now because I'm curious being a woman now because I'm curious being a woman who is a maintenance squadron commander. who is a maintenance squadron commander. who is a maintenance squadron commander. >> Can you talk us through what it was like >> Can you talk us through what it was like >> Can you talk us through what it was like to be a woman in what seems kind of like

6:48 to be a woman in what seems kind of like to be a woman in what seems kind of like a man's world? I mean it is I will say a man's world? I mean it is I will say a man's world? I mean it is I will say um I I know the moment that I realized I um I I know the moment that I realized I um I I know the moment that I realized I was not um I was maybe an outsider at was not um I was maybe an outsider at was not um I was maybe an outsider at least if you look at demographic numbers least if you look at demographic numbers least if you look at demographic numbers um but not an outsider in the way I um but not an outsider in the way I um but not an outsider in the way I viewed it. I came up and into the

7:03 viewed it. I came up and into the viewed it. I came up and into the military and I was attracted to aircraft military and I was attracted to aircraft military and I was attracted to aircraft maintenance I think because I was a bit maintenance I think because I was a bit maintenance I think because I was a bit of a tomboy. Um I enjoyed getting my of a tomboy. Um I enjoyed getting my of a tomboy. Um I enjoyed getting my hands dirty. I was always very hands dirty. I was always very hands dirty. I was always very mechanical and I fought for aircraft mechanical and I fought for aircraft mechanical and I fought for aircraft maintenance. It was my first choice and

7:14 maintenance. It was my first choice and maintenance. It was my first choice and I I can't tell you why I was drawn to I I can't tell you why I was drawn to I I can't tell you why I was drawn to it. Um, but I was on my first deployment it. Um, but I was on my first deployment it. Um, but I was on my first deployment to Afghanistan. And back in the days, to Afghanistan. And back in the days, to Afghanistan. And back in the days, which you probably remember, many people which you probably remember, many people which you probably remember, many people raise their eyebrows at this now. You raise their eyebrows at this now. You raise their eyebrows at this now. You had to wait in line at a tent for your

7:27 had to wait in line at a tent for your had to wait in line at a tent for your once a week 15-minute phone call. And once a week 15-minute phone call. And once a week 15-minute phone call. And you had to choose who you're going to you had to choose who you're going to you had to choose who you're going to call, and you had to know how you were call, and you had to know how you were call, and you had to know how you were going to connect to them. And, you know, going to connect to them. And, you know, going to connect to them. And, you know, wall mounted phones, no cell phones, you wall mounted phones, no cell phones, you wall mounted phones, no cell phones, you had to hope they were home. And I was um

7:37 had to hope they were home. And I was um had to hope they were home. And I was um probably a month or so in, and I went, probably a month or so in, and I went, probably a month or so in, and I went, man, if I don't call my grandma with one man, if I don't call my grandma with one man, if I don't call my grandma with one of these calls, uh, I'm going to be in a of these calls, uh, I'm going to be in a of these calls, uh, I'm going to be in a lot of trouble here. because she was lot of trouble here. because she was lot of trouble here. because she was worried about her granddaughter going worried about her granddaughter going worried about her granddaughter going off to Afghanistan for reasonable

7:47 off to Afghanistan for reasonable off to Afghanistan for reasonable reasons, I thought. And one of the first reasons, I thought. And one of the first reasons, I thought. And one of the first things she asked me when I finally got things she asked me when I finally got things she asked me when I finally got her on the phone was, "Are there at her on the phone was, "Are there at her on the phone was, "Are there at least other women there for you to least other women there for you to least other women there for you to connect with and to support you?" And I connect with and to support you?" And I connect with and to support you?" And I brushed it off at first. I'm like,

7:59 brushed it off at first. I'm like, brushed it off at first. I'm like, "Grandma, it's fine. Like, I've got "Grandma, it's fine. Like, I've got "Grandma, it's fine. Like, I've got great people. I'm with a great team. great people. I'm with a great team. great people. I'm with a great team. Like, I don't even I just brushed it Like, I don't even I just brushed it Like, I don't even I just brushed it off." And I was working the night shift, off." And I was working the night shift, off." And I was working the night shift, so I didn't go to work till 400 p.m. And so I didn't go to work till 400 p.m. And so I didn't go to work till 400 p.m. And I went out and I walked the flight line.

8:10 I went out and I walked the flight line. I went out and I walked the flight line. Um, and I didn't see any. Um, and we had Um, and I didn't see any. Um, and we had Um, and I didn't see any. Um, and we had 350 people on our team. And I went in 350 people on our team. And I went in 350 people on our team. And I went in with my chief and I'm sitting down. I'm with my chief and I'm sitting down. I'm with my chief and I'm sitting down. I'm like, I'm going to pull up a roster. And like, I'm going to pull up a roster. And like, I'm going to pull up a roster. And in that group of about 350 people, there in that group of about 350 people, there in that group of about 350 people, there were three. And I was the only leader.

8:23 were three. And I was the only leader. were three. And I was the only leader. The other the others were much younger. The other the others were much younger. The other the others were much younger. And that was a moment for me where I And that was a moment for me where I And that was a moment for me where I realized, you know, maybe it hadn't been realized, you know, maybe it hadn't been realized, you know, maybe it hadn't been something I had come up against or felt, something I had come up against or felt, something I had come up against or felt, you know, like I walked in the room and you know, like I walked in the room and you know, like I walked in the room and I was different because I had leaders

8:34 I was different because I had leaders I was different because I had leaders that didn't treat me that way and and that didn't treat me that way and and that didn't treat me that way and and really lifted me up and showed me that I really lifted me up and showed me that I really lifted me up and showed me that I was the leader. um in early days of my was the leader. um in early days of my was the leader. um in early days of my career that until my grandma asked me career that until my grandma asked me career that until my grandma asked me that question sitting in a phone tent in that question sitting in a phone tent in that question sitting in a phone tent in Afghanistan I didn't think about it but

8:48 Afghanistan I didn't think about it but Afghanistan I didn't think about it but moving forward through the years it moving forward through the years it moving forward through the years it wasn't really until I became a mom and wasn't really until I became a mom and wasn't really until I became a mom and had kids and um quite honestly I saw had kids and um quite honestly I saw had kids and um quite honestly I saw some of those stigmas and the difference some of those stigmas and the difference some of those stigmas and the difference in expectation levied more on my husband in expectation levied more on my husband in expectation levied more on my husband than on me because we were both active

9:00 than on me because we were both active than on me because we were both active duty and in those days when you know a duty and in those days when you know a duty and in those days when you know a kid's sick and we're taking turns and kid's sick and we're taking turns and kid's sick and we're taking turns and we're tag teaming this whole parenting we're tag teaming this whole parenting we're tag teaming this whole parenting thing he got more judgment for stepping thing he got more judgment for stepping thing he got more judgment for stepping into his role as a dad than I did for into his role as a dad than I did for into his role as a dad than I did for stepping into my role as a mom because

9:14 stepping into my role as a mom because stepping into my role as a mom because for some reason being a woman it was for some reason being a woman it was for some reason being a woman it was okay that's I guess I just got to deal okay that's I guess I just got to deal okay that's I guess I just got to deal with that and for him he didn't always with that and for him he didn't always with that and for him he didn't always get the same response and so it's been get the same response and so it's been get the same response and so it's been an interesting little social experiment an interesting little social experiment an interesting little social experiment for us. Um it wasn't until I

9:24 for us. Um it wasn't until I for us. Um it wasn't until I transitioned out of the military that I transitioned out of the military that I transitioned out of the military that I saw saw it through some different lights saw saw it through some different lights saw saw it through some different lights as well but yeah thanks to my grandma as well but yeah thanks to my grandma as well but yeah thanks to my grandma and that question it was something I and that question it was something I and that question it was something I became aware of and really was mindful became aware of and really was mindful became aware of and really was mindful of throughout my career. When you say

9:36 of throughout my career. When you say of throughout my career. When you say they gave him a hard time, do you mean they gave him a hard time, do you mean they gave him a hard time, do you mean >> he had to take the kids to a dentist >> he had to take the kids to a dentist >> he had to take the kids to a dentist appointment or something? And they say appointment or something? And they say appointment or something? And they say say something like, "Just make your wife say something like, "Just make your wife say something like, "Just make your wife do it. Just make your wife. Just have do it. Just make your wife. Just have do it. Just make your wife. Just have your wife do it. Why can't your wife do

9:44 your wife do it. Why can't your wife do your wife do it. Why can't your wife do that?" You be like, "Well, she did it that?" You be like, "Well, she did it that?" You be like, "Well, she did it the last five times." And you know, it the last five times." And you know, it the last five times." And you know, it would be would be would be >> And she has a full-time job, too. >> And she has a full-time job, too. >> And she has a full-time job, too. >> Well, turns out and you know, there's >> Well, turns out and you know, there's >> Well, turns out and you know, there's times we were in the Pentagon. It would times we were in the Pentagon. It would times we were in the Pentagon. It would be like, "Well, you know, well, you're

9:53 be like, "Well, you know, well, you're be like, "Well, you know, well, you're you have to do this today." He's like, you have to do this today." He's like, you have to do this today." He's like, "Well, she's going to be in in the room "Well, she's going to be in in the room "Well, she's going to be in in the room with the Secretary of the Air Force with with the Secretary of the Air Force with with the Secretary of the Air Force with this." Turns out like her job is this." Turns out like her job is this." Turns out like her job is meaningful, too. And I I'm so grateful meaningful, too. And I I'm so grateful meaningful, too. And I I'm so grateful to him for always kind of standing up to

10:02 to him for always kind of standing up to to him for always kind of standing up to that. But yeah, he faced I think more that. But yeah, he faced I think more that. But yeah, he faced I think more stigmas in being a parent as an active stigmas in being a parent as an active stigmas in being a parent as an active parent than I did as we were both active parent than I did as we were both active parent than I did as we were both active duty. So you couldn't and and he was duty. So you couldn't and and he was duty. So you couldn't and and he was maybe in an environment sometimes where maybe in an environment sometimes where maybe in an environment sometimes where they weren't used to a dual military

10:14 they weren't used to a dual military they weren't used to a dual military spouse and they just go why why are you spouse and they just go why why are you spouse and they just go why why are you even asking me this? Just have your wife even asking me this? Just have your wife even asking me this? Just have your wife do it. Um and I think a lot of people do it. Um and I think a lot of people do it. Um and I think a lot of people serving alongside us learned learned a serving alongside us learned learned a serving alongside us learned learned a lot from and through us because we both lot from and through us because we both lot from and through us because we both always were equally car carrying the

10:27 always were equally car carrying the always were equally car carrying the weight of that. Um but there were other weight of that. Um but there were other weight of that. Um but there were other challenges being a woman and you know challenges being a woman and you know challenges being a woman and you know trying to have kids and dealing with we trying to have kids and dealing with we trying to have kids and dealing with we struggled to have kids over the years struggled to have kids over the years struggled to have kids over the years and some of the stigmas that come along and some of the stigmas that come along and some of the stigmas that come along with um you know there I was became

10:39 with um you know there I was became with um you know there I was became aware of some stigmas and and things aware of some stigmas and and things aware of some stigmas and and things that came up when I finally had my son that came up when I finally had my son that came up when I finally had my son that were you must have planned this um that were you must have planned this um that were you must have planned this um to get out of deployment to get out of to get out of deployment to get out of to get out of deployment to get out of this assignment. What they didn't know this assignment. What they didn't know this assignment. What they didn't know is that we had been trying to have kids

10:50 is that we had been trying to have kids is that we had been trying to have kids for 10 years and we had stopped trying for 10 years and we had stopped trying for 10 years and we had stopped trying and we had moved onto a boat as you know and we had moved onto a boat as you know and we had moved onto a boat as you know we didn't plan to move onto a boat in we didn't plan to move onto a boat in we didn't plan to move onto a boat in National Harbor, go to the Pentagon National Harbor, go to the Pentagon National Harbor, go to the Pentagon these crazy jobs and have kids and these crazy jobs and have kids and these crazy jobs and have kids and that's just what was meant for us but

11:00 that's just what was meant for us but that's just what was meant for us but behind the scenes people were sharing behind the scenes people were sharing behind the scenes people were sharing stories which I was made aware of um stories which I was made aware of um stories which I was made aware of um that maybe we planned it that way to get that maybe we planned it that way to get that maybe we planned it that way to get out of XYZ and you go man that's you out of XYZ and you go man that's you out of XYZ and you go man that's you know um it is what it is but there are know um it is what it is but there are know um it is what it is but there are stigmas there about starting a family

11:12 stigmas there about starting a family stigmas there about starting a family and and what that means for your career and and what that means for your career and and what that means for your career and continuing to work and there were and continuing to work and there were and continuing to work and there were cases where other spouses in a or senior cases where other spouses in a or senior cases where other spouses in a or senior role were surprised and had some role were surprised and had some role were surprised and had some judgment that they shared with me that I judgment that they shared with me that I judgment that they shared with me that I was going to stay in after I had kids.

11:24 was going to stay in after I had kids. was going to stay in after I had kids. So, it's not always, I think, through So, it's not always, I think, through So, it's not always, I think, through the lenses you expect. Um, but we the lenses you expect. Um, but we the lenses you expect. Um, but we definitely encountered some of those definitely encountered some of those definitely encountered some of those stigmas in different ways, I think, stigmas in different ways, I think, stigmas in different ways, I think, because of our dual mill service as because of our dual mill service as because of our dual mill service as well. well. well. >> You said, you know, the military is

11:37 >> You said, you know, the military is >> You said, you know, the military is going through a transformation right going through a transformation right going through a transformation right now. now. now. And not to put you in a political And not to put you in a political And not to put you in a political situation where I'm going to get you to situation where I'm going to get you to situation where I'm going to get you to step on a landmine, what what is the step on a landmine, what what is the step on a landmine, what what is the administration or what is this administration or what is this administration or what is this transformation doing right now? What are

11:52 transformation doing right now? What are transformation doing right now? What are the positives and what are the negatives the positives and what are the negatives the positives and what are the negatives messaging wise? What are they missing messaging wise? What are they missing messaging wise? What are they missing versus what are they actually trying to versus what are they actually trying to versus what are they actually trying to do? do? do? I think my mindset has shifted I think my mindset has shifted I think my mindset has shifted significantly especially in those arenas significantly especially in those arenas significantly especially in those arenas of caring for service members, families,

12:10 of caring for service members, families, of caring for service members, families, veterans because I was in the veterans because I was in the veterans because I was in the institution kind of at the center of a institution kind of at the center of a institution kind of at the center of a lot of people really trying hard to make lot of people really trying hard to make lot of people really trying hard to make a difference. And I think turmoil and a difference. And I think turmoil and a difference. And I think turmoil and changes that come so fast that you can't changes that come so fast that you can't changes that come so fast that you can't think about the impact or do you have

12:25 think about the impact or do you have think about the impact or do you have feedback loops to see how that decision feedback loops to see how that decision feedback loops to see how that decision or that change is going to impact the or that change is going to impact the or that change is going to impact the people you're trying to serve or that people you're trying to serve or that people you're trying to serve or that need to be able to serve you for your need to be able to serve you for your need to be able to serve you for your mission to be successful. The speed and mission to be successful. The speed and mission to be successful. The speed and and maybe lack of follow through and

12:39 and maybe lack of follow through and and maybe lack of follow through and feedback loop, those consequences won't feedback loop, those consequences won't feedback loop, those consequences won't be seen for years, maybe decades, and be seen for years, maybe decades, and be seen for years, maybe decades, and and we will see them. I think where I've and we will see them. I think where I've and we will see them. I think where I've shifted my mindset because that's an shifted my mindset because that's an shifted my mindset because that's an easy thing to just get angry about and easy thing to just get angry about and easy thing to just get angry about and stare at and go let this these

12:51 stare at and go let this these stare at and go let this these institutions need to do better to serve institutions need to do better to serve institutions need to do better to serve and care for our people and maybe and care for our people and maybe and care for our people and maybe realize that those people, you know, realize that those people, you know, realize that those people, you know, these missions were only successful on these missions were only successful on these missions were only successful on the backs of those people and those the backs of those people and those the backs of those people and those families. families.

13:00 Deployments, Injuries, and the Price of Service

13:01 families. My expectation has shifted to how can My expectation has shifted to how can My expectation has shifted to how can our communities and those people who are our communities and those people who are our communities and those people who are maybe not bound by those institutional maybe not bound by those institutional maybe not bound by those institutional bureaucracies serve those service bureaucracies serve those service bureaucracies serve those service members, families and veterans and and members, families and veterans and and members, families and veterans and and shifting my focus into arenas where shifting my focus into arenas where

13:14 shifting my focus into arenas where people have the willpower to see those people have the willpower to see those people have the willpower to see those things through and understand how it's things through and understand how it's things through and understand how it's impacting those people they you know impacting those people they you know impacting those people they you know serve alongside with in the communities serve alongside with in the communities serve alongside with in the communities and that's the full demographic of and that's the full demographic of and that's the full demographic of service members, veterans, families. Um service members, veterans, families. Um

13:26 service members, veterans, families. Um but I think shifting expectation because but I think shifting expectation because but I think shifting expectation because those institutions have different focus those institutions have different focus those institutions have different focus areas right now and uh instead of areas right now and uh instead of areas right now and uh instead of beating my head against those parts beating my head against those parts beating my head against those parts that'll just make you angry when you see that'll just make you angry when you see that'll just make you angry when you see the change happening so fast and how it

13:39 the change happening so fast and how it the change happening so fast and how it is impacting real people that you know is impacting real people that you know is impacting real people that you know you see the faces when you think of any you see the faces when you think of any you see the faces when you think of any of those examples. Um shifting to those of those examples. Um shifting to those of those examples. Um shifting to those places where people want to make a places where people want to make a places where people want to make a difference and actually follow through difference and actually follow through difference and actually follow through and and stay the long game is the only

13:51 and and stay the long game is the only and and stay the long game is the only way we're going to get through this way we're going to get through this way we're going to get through this without some of the really negative without some of the really negative without some of the really negative impacts. Um, I think we're walking impacts. Um, I think we're walking impacts. Um, I think we're walking towards right now with the turmoil towards right now with the turmoil towards right now with the turmoil people are facing. people are facing. people are facing. >> One of my concerns with what's going on >> One of my concerns with what's going on

14:01 >> One of my concerns with what's going on right now is, you know, we're focusing right now is, you know, we're focusing right now is, you know, we're focusing so much on women in the military. You so much on women in the military. You so much on women in the military. You know, we've gone down this whole path of know, we've gone down this whole path of know, we've gone down this whole path of transgender, LGBTQ, you you know, you transgender, LGBTQ, you you know, you transgender, LGBTQ, you you know, you name the acronym name the acronym name the acronym >> and we're so focused on that, >> and we're so focused on that, >> and we're so focused on that, >> but we're not really talking about how >> but we're not really talking about how >> but we're not really talking about how we are we are we are >> disenfranchising our civil servants

14:21 >> disenfranchising our civil servants >> disenfranchising our civil servants >> to go through the ranks. So right now >> to go through the ranks. So right now >> to go through the ranks. So right now with us attacking these academic with us attacking these academic with us attacking these academic institutions, these young kids are not institutions, these young kids are not institutions, these young kids are not going to be inspired to even go into going to be inspired to even go into going to be inspired to even go into political science or government related political science or government related political science or government related type jobs because

14:35 type jobs because type jobs because >> you could just be fired at a moment's >> you could just be fired at a moment's >> you could just be fired at a moment's notice when you've already dedicated, notice when you've already dedicated, notice when you've already dedicated, you know, those first four years of your you know, those first four years of your you know, those first four years of your life going to college and then trying to life going to college and then trying to life going to college and then trying to get into these jobs in the Pentagon. You get into these jobs in the Pentagon. You get into these jobs in the Pentagon. You know, they make it sound like it's just

14:45 know, they make it sound like it's just know, they make it sound like it's just a bunch of, you know, driftwood and, you a bunch of, you know, driftwood and, you a bunch of, you know, driftwood and, you know, bumps on a log in the Pentagon. know, bumps on a log in the Pentagon. know, bumps on a log in the Pentagon. These young kids, they work their asses These young kids, they work their asses These young kids, they work their asses off. I mean, they're going and getting off. I mean, they're going and getting off. I mean, they're going and getting their master's degrees from prestigious their master's degrees from prestigious their master's degrees from prestigious institutions and their PhDs just so they

14:57 institutions and their PhDs just so they institutions and their PhDs just so they can get a job at the Pentagon. And then can get a job at the Pentagon. And then can get a job at the Pentagon. And then to be laid off because you're in that to be laid off because you're in that to be laid off because you're in that first three years of um forget the the first three years of um forget the the first three years of um forget the the term they use, but you can be furoughed term they use, but you can be furoughed term they use, but you can be furoughed because you're in the first three years because you're in the first three years because you're in the first three years of your position. I think

15:10 of your position. I think of your position. I think >> wow, why would I why would I spend all >> wow, why would I why would I spend all >> wow, why would I why would I spend all that money to go get a degree in that money to go get a degree in that money to go get a degree in political science because I was political science because I was political science because I was colorblind or I couldn't meet the colorblind or I couldn't meet the colorblind or I couldn't meet the physical fitness standards to be in the physical fitness standards to be in the physical fitness standards to be in the military, but I wanted to find a way to military, but I wanted to find a way to

15:20 military, but I wanted to find a way to serve. So, I'm concerned about the serve. So, I'm concerned about the serve. So, I'm concerned about the civilian piece of it, not just the way civilian piece of it, not just the way civilian piece of it, not just the way we're treating our our military, we're treating our our military, we're treating our our military, particularly our women in the military. particularly our women in the military. particularly our women in the military. >> Oh, yeah. I mean, whether you're talking >> Oh, yeah. I mean, whether you're talking >> Oh, yeah. I mean, whether you're talking about military or civil service, both

15:31 about military or civil service, both about military or civil service, both feel like an ugly, unpredictable arena feel like an ugly, unpredictable arena feel like an ugly, unpredictable arena to step into, um, whether you're talking to step into, um, whether you're talking to step into, um, whether you're talking politically or just life turmoil. And politically or just life turmoil. And politically or just life turmoil. And one of the things people don't think one of the things people don't think one of the things people don't think about, um, when it comes to our civil about, um, when it comes to our civil about, um, when it comes to our civil servants, I did a lot of work in areas

15:46 servants, I did a lot of work in areas servants, I did a lot of work in areas of suicide prevention. We had focus of suicide prevention. We had focus of suicide prevention. We had focus groups for many demographics. one of the groups for many demographics. one of the groups for many demographics. one of the most at risk demographics was our civil most at risk demographics was our civil most at risk demographics was our civil service population. Whether you're service population. Whether you're service population. Whether you're talking I I worked in maintenance. Um talking I I worked in maintenance. Um talking I I worked in maintenance. Um and so we have depots and and places

15:57 and so we have depots and and places and so we have depots and and places where overhaul of aircraft and equipment where overhaul of aircraft and equipment where overhaul of aircraft and equipment is happening mostly by a civilian is happening mostly by a civilian is happening mostly by a civilian population. So add that to your typical population. So add that to your typical population. So add that to your typical Pentagon staff work that people think Pentagon staff work that people think Pentagon staff work that people think about and they were experiencing suicide about and they were experiencing suicide about and they were experiencing suicide and ideation and struggle in life at

16:11 and ideation and struggle in life at and ideation and struggle in life at rates that weren't being captured rates that weren't being captured rates that weren't being captured because we don't look at that data in because we don't look at that data in because we don't look at that data in the same way we do for our service the same way we do for our service the same way we do for our service members. and it was a tougher beast to members. and it was a tougher beast to members. and it was a tougher beast to support them because they didn't have support them because they didn't have support them because they didn't have the same unit support or culture to

16:23 the same unit support or culture to the same unit support or culture to rally around them. Um, and we didn't rally around them. Um, and we didn't rally around them. Um, and we didn't have the same policies. Quite honestly, have the same policies. Quite honestly, have the same policies. Quite honestly, there were barriers to the policy and there were barriers to the policy and there were barriers to the policy and process. I knew leaders wearing a process. I knew leaders wearing a process. I knew leaders wearing a uniform that led those civil servants uniform that led those civil servants uniform that led those civil servants doing just amazing things to try to

16:35 doing just amazing things to try to doing just amazing things to try to support them and figure out how to how support them and figure out how to how support them and figure out how to how to maybe shift that trend in a better to maybe shift that trend in a better to maybe shift that trend in a better way. And I saw policies coming out that way. And I saw policies coming out that way. And I saw policies coming out that were preventing them from doing some of were preventing them from doing some of were preventing them from doing some of that work. And yeah, does it make you, that work. And yeah, does it make you, that work. And yeah, does it make you, you know, want to send your kids to go

16:49 you know, want to send your kids to go you know, want to send your kids to go step into those arenas? Uh, maybe not step into those arenas? Uh, maybe not step into those arenas? Uh, maybe not right in this moment. But, you know, right in this moment. But, you know, right in this moment. But, you know, those people doing that work. I I have those people doing that work. I I have those people doing that work. I I have hope. Um, or I I I hope to see changes hope. Um, or I I I hope to see changes hope. Um, or I I I hope to see changes that make that feel maybe not exactly that make that feel maybe not exactly that make that feel maybe not exactly how it used to, but some better version

17:05 how it used to, but some better version how it used to, but some better version of that where people are in the arena of that where people are in the arena of that where people are in the arena serving together in and out of uniform serving together in and out of uniform serving together in and out of uniform and where that service is equally and where that service is equally and where that service is equally meaningful if you're wearing a suit meaningful if you're wearing a suit meaningful if you're wearing a suit versus a uniform. Um, because I've uh, versus a uniform. Um, because I've uh, versus a uniform. Um, because I've uh, man, some of the civilians supporting

17:18 man, some of the civilians supporting man, some of the civilians supporting the DoD that I've worked with are some the DoD that I've worked with are some the DoD that I've worked with are some of the most incredible people. They're of the most incredible people. They're of the most incredible people. They're showing up on weekends. They're pulling showing up on weekends. They're pulling showing up on weekends. They're pulling these all nighters alongside you doing these all nighters alongside you doing these all nighters alongside you doing this doing crazy work that is very this doing crazy work that is very this doing crazy work that is very necessary deploying in some cases. I

17:29 necessary deploying in some cases. I necessary deploying in some cases. I deployed with a lot of contractors and deployed with a lot of contractors and deployed with a lot of contractors and civil servants as well. And I don't civil servants as well. And I don't civil servants as well. And I don't think um I don't think their service is think um I don't think their service is think um I don't think their service is getting the credit. It's due for sure. getting the credit. It's due for sure. getting the credit. It's due for sure. >> In your answer, you you've mentioned >> In your answer, you you've mentioned >> In your answer, you you've mentioned suicide twice now. And I know about your

17:44 suicide twice now. And I know about your suicide twice now. And I know about your postpartum depression. Can you share postpartum depression. Can you share postpartum depression. Can you share with us the struggle? You're an active with us the struggle? You're an active with us the struggle? You're an active duty military senior leader officer. duty military senior leader officer. duty military senior leader officer. You battled for 10 years to have You battled for 10 years to have You battled for 10 years to have children. Now you've had children. children. Now you've had children. children. Now you've had children. You're balancing that work life with

18:02 You're balancing that work life with You're balancing that work life with with a young newborn at home and you're with a young newborn at home and you're with a young newborn at home and you're struggling with postpartum depression. struggling with postpartum depression. struggling with postpartum depression. Can you can you share that with us? Can you can you share that with us? Can you can you share that with us? >> Yeah, I mean I I bring up suicide >> Yeah, I mean I I bring up suicide >> Yeah, I mean I I bring up suicide probably more comes comes looser off the probably more comes comes looser off the probably more comes comes looser off the tongue than most people because it's

18:15 tongue than most people because it's tongue than most people because it's something that's been a dominant theme something that's been a dominant theme something that's been a dominant theme in my career long before my own in my career long before my own in my career long before my own experience. Um, I recently was was in in experience. Um, I recently was was in in experience. Um, I recently was was in in a in a program where we were we went to a in a program where we were we went to a in a program where we were we went to Arlington Cemetery this last week. Um, Arlington Cemetery this last week. Um, Arlington Cemetery this last week. Um, and we're just talking about the people

18:28 and we're just talking about the people and we're just talking about the people we lost. And for me, some of those first we lost. And for me, some of those first we lost. And for me, some of those first faces I see are the people I lost to faces I see are the people I lost to faces I see are the people I lost to suicide. Um, was recently able to talk suicide. Um, was recently able to talk suicide. Um, was recently able to talk about the first airman I lost who I I about the first airman I lost who I I about the first airman I lost who I I got to know him and his family more got to know him and his family more got to know him and his family more intimately after his death. His name was

18:39 intimately after his death. His name was intimately after his death. His name was Isaac Guest. He was a dorm airman back Isaac Guest. He was a dorm airman back Isaac Guest. He was a dorm airman back over 20 years ago now, probably um, at over 20 years ago now, probably um, at over 20 years ago now, probably um, at Tinker Air Force Base. And I didn't Tinker Air Force Base. And I didn't Tinker Air Force Base. And I didn't understand it. I didn't understand what understand it. I didn't understand what understand it. I didn't understand what that struggle could feel like and how that struggle could feel like and how that struggle could feel like and how many different lenses people experience

18:53 many different lenses people experience many different lenses people experience that struggle and the assumptions people that struggle and the assumptions people that struggle and the assumptions people make about it. Um I originally framed my make about it. Um I originally framed my make about it. Um I originally framed my own experience after I had my son Logan own experience after I had my son Logan own experience after I had my son Logan as postpartum stuff. as postpartum stuff. as postpartum stuff. >> And yes, I experienced severe postpartum >> And yes, I experienced severe postpartum >> And yes, I experienced severe postpartum depression, anxiety. Um and there are

19:08 depression, anxiety. Um and there are depression, anxiety. Um and there are chemical elements and things that you go chemical elements and things that you go chemical elements and things that you go through that that amplify that. But I through that that amplify that. But I through that that amplify that. But I didn't realize until years later didn't realize until years later didn't realize until years later really recognized the suicidal ideation really recognized the suicidal ideation really recognized the suicidal ideation and and thoughts that I had experienced and and thoughts that I had experienced and and thoughts that I had experienced as well throughout that year. And it

19:22 as well throughout that year. And it as well throughout that year. And it took someone really challenging me on took someone really challenging me on took someone really challenging me on that. Yeah, I just had postpartum stuff. that. Yeah, I just had postpartum stuff. that. Yeah, I just had postpartum stuff. Such an easy excuse. Made it easy to Such an easy excuse. Made it easy to Such an easy excuse. Made it easy to talk about because it was like this talk about because it was like this talk about because it was like this thing happens after a baby and people thing happens after a baby and people thing happens after a baby and people go, "Oh, yeah, that's hard." um what I

19:33 go, "Oh, yeah, that's hard." um what I go, "Oh, yeah, that's hard." um what I experienced was compounding probably experienced was compounding probably experienced was compounding probably from when I was a kid and how I from when I was a kid and how I from when I was a kid and how I approached life and you know carried all approached life and you know carried all approached life and you know carried all these burdens and walked out into the these burdens and walked out into the these burdens and walked out into the world as a leader with a mask wearing world as a leader with a mask wearing world as a leader with a mask wearing all this armor to do it all myself and I

19:45 all this armor to do it all myself and I all this armor to do it all myself and I had a a fellow um I was I was on a panel had a a fellow um I was I was on a panel had a a fellow um I was I was on a panel with a military spouse who was also a with a military spouse who was also a with a military spouse who was also a veteran herself and she challenged me a veteran herself and she challenged me a veteran herself and she challenged me a bit and used a computer analogy and bit and used a computer analogy and bit and used a computer analogy and she's like she knew me well enough and she's like she knew me well enough and she's like she knew me well enough and had been someone that had helped me see

19:59 had been someone that had helped me see had been someone that had helped me see what had happened in my own journey and what had happened in my own journey and what had happened in my own journey and she's like how many years have you've she's like how many years have you've she's like how many years have you've been spending popping open tabs that you been spending popping open tabs that you been spending popping open tabs that you never close out. Like it's all these never close out. Like it's all these never close out. Like it's all these tabs open on your computer. Eventually tabs open on your computer. Eventually tabs open on your computer. Eventually the computer crashes and I crash a lot

20:10 the computer crashes and I crash a lot the computer crashes and I crash a lot of computers cuz I'm, you know, they of computers cuz I'm, you know, they of computers cuz I'm, you know, they don't like maintainers touching the don't like maintainers touching the don't like maintainers touching the digital electronics as well. So it was digital electronics as well. So it was digital electronics as well. So it was meaningful that way. But I went, man, meaningful that way. But I went, man, meaningful that way. But I went, man, you know, I went through a lot when I you know, I went through a lot when I you know, I went through a lot when I was younger. I entered into service and

20:21 was younger. I entered into service and was younger. I entered into service and had traumatic physical injury twice had traumatic physical injury twice had traumatic physical injury twice within my first 10 years. And I've within my first 10 years. And I've within my first 10 years. And I've suffered pain and you know, kind of suffered pain and you know, kind of suffered pain and you know, kind of trying to overcome this injury. I had trying to overcome this injury. I had trying to overcome this injury. I had suffered these, you know, suicides suffered these, you know, suicides suffered these, you know, suicides within my units. We face so many things

20:33 within my units. We face so many things within my units. We face so many things over the course of our lives and we over the course of our lives and we over the course of our lives and we think we get past them and it it just think we get past them and it it just think we get past them and it it just I'm I'm past it so it's good. I'm I'm past it so it's good. I'm I'm past it so it's good. Everything's fine. And that's that's not Everything's fine. And that's that's not Everything's fine. And that's that's not the way trauma works. That's not the way the way trauma works. That's not the way the way trauma works. That's not the way life works. Um I think the big

20:45 life works. Um I think the big life works. Um I think the big realization for me was re-engineering realization for me was re-engineering realization for me was re-engineering how I approach when a tough thing how I approach when a tough thing how I approach when a tough thing happens. And and you you know, stand up happens. And and you you know, stand up happens. And and you you know, stand up tall, get through the thing, which we're tall, get through the thing, which we're tall, get through the thing, which we're all really good at in military service. all really good at in military service. all really good at in military service. you know, you get more serious and more

20:58 you know, you get more serious and more you know, you get more serious and more stoic and let's just solve the problem stoic and let's just solve the problem stoic and let's just solve the problem and get through it. Well, there's a

21:00 A Decade of Infertility — The Fight No One Sees

21:01 and get through it. Well, there's a and get through it. Well, there's a point where you have to take a look at point where you have to take a look at point where you have to take a look at what happened and make sure that you've what happened and make sure that you've what happened and make sure that you've learned what you need to learn from it. learned what you need to learn from it. learned what you need to learn from it. Um, or that you've processed that Um, or that you've processed that Um, or that you've processed that trauma, whatever that means for you, trauma, whatever that means for you, trauma, whatever that means for you, instead of just moving on, packing it

21:11 instead of just moving on, packing it instead of just moving on, packing it away and pretending, you know, life goes away and pretending, you know, life goes away and pretending, you know, life goes on and I'm better because of it. For me, on and I'm better because of it. For me, on and I'm better because of it. For me, it was, you know, the compounding it was, you know, the compounding it was, you know, the compounding effects. And those last 10 tabs, effects. And those last 10 tabs, effects. And those last 10 tabs, probably 20 tabs, happened to be having probably 20 tabs, happened to be having probably 20 tabs, happened to be having a baby. um and all of the difficulties

21:23 a baby. um and all of the difficulties a baby. um and all of the difficulties that come with that. But those were that come with that. But those were that come with that. But those were hardly the only tabs open on my computer hardly the only tabs open on my computer hardly the only tabs open on my computer in my case. So I think when I shared my in my case. So I think when I shared my in my case. So I think when I shared my story, the most meaningful thing that story, the most meaningful thing that story, the most meaningful thing that happened to me, I shared it going there happened to me, I shared it going there happened to me, I shared it going there might be one or two people um was it was

21:38 might be one or two people um was it was might be one or two people um was it was an article that I had written that went an article that I had written that went an article that I had written that went out that that this helped them. and the out that that this helped them. and the out that that this helped them. and the stories I got back and the number of stories I got back and the number of stories I got back and the number of messages I received. Um, I share when I messages I received. Um, I share when I messages I received. Um, I share when I speak I share the story of turning my speak I share the story of turning my speak I share the story of turning my phone back on and within 24 hours I had

21:52 phone back on and within 24 hours I had phone back on and within 24 hours I had hundreds of messages. Within a month I hundreds of messages. Within a month I hundreds of messages. Within a month I had thousands and it wasn't from other had thousands and it wasn't from other had thousands and it wasn't from other moms who dealt with postpartum. Some moms who dealt with postpartum. Some moms who dealt with postpartum. Some were most of them were from leaders who were most of them were from leaders who were most of them were from leaders who had been struggling through their had been struggling through their had been struggling through their journey of leadership and had

22:04 journey of leadership and had journey of leadership and had experienced what I experienced through experienced what I experienced through experienced what I experienced through very different lenses. But the common very different lenses. But the common very different lenses. But the common threads in perspective of just feeling threads in perspective of just feeling threads in perspective of just feeling like they had to do it alone and like like they had to do it alone and like like they had to do it alone and like they couldn't be a leader if they they couldn't be a leader if they they couldn't be a leader if they stepped out and got support for

22:14 stepped out and got support for stepped out and got support for themselves. Um that was very eye opening themselves. Um that was very eye opening themselves. Um that was very eye opening for me cuz really that was my story and for me cuz really that was my story and for me cuz really that was my story and I was chalking it up to this postpartum I was chalking it up to this postpartum I was chalking it up to this postpartum stuff that was easier to talk about. Um stuff that was easier to talk about. Um stuff that was easier to talk about. Um which was a huge piece of it but it which was a huge piece of it but it which was a huge piece of it but it definitely wasn't wasn't the cause if

22:28 definitely wasn't wasn't the cause if definitely wasn't wasn't the cause if you were to treat it as this one sole you were to treat it as this one sole you were to treat it as this one sole sole cause of what I went through. sole cause of what I went through. sole cause of what I went through. So, that's one thing I was going to ask So, that's one thing I was going to ask So, that's one thing I was going to ask is is are you referring to Run Toward is is are you referring to Run Toward is is are you referring to Run Toward the Fire? Is that your story? the Fire? Is that your story? the Fire? Is that your story? >> Yeah, that was the the title of the I I

22:41 >> Yeah, that was the the title of the I I >> Yeah, that was the the title of the I I wrote that originally actually just to wrote that originally actually just to wrote that originally actually just to um so I had agreed to be a part of a I um so I had agreed to be a part of a I um so I had agreed to be a part of a I had agreed to be a part of a mental had agreed to be a part of a mental had agreed to be a part of a mental health um awareness month thing. Uh I health um awareness month thing. Uh I health um awareness month thing. Uh I had talked to a chaplain that I was had talked to a chaplain that I was had talked to a chaplain that I was close with in command to try to prepare

22:55 close with in command to try to prepare close with in command to try to prepare for this because I realized I agreed to for this because I realized I agreed to for this because I realized I agreed to do the thing, but I didn't really know do the thing, but I didn't really know do the thing, but I didn't really know how to talk about it or what was going how to talk about it or what was going how to talk about it or what was going to be useful. Um, and through that to be useful. Um, and through that to be useful. Um, and through that journey of this chaplain who was also a journey of this chaplain who was also a journey of this chaplain who was also a social worker who I realized in command

23:05 social worker who I realized in command social worker who I realized in command was showing up on my couch once a week was showing up on my couch once a week was showing up on my couch once a week for an hour. Um, probably because I was for an hour. Um, probably because I was for an hour. Um, probably because I was getting therapy and didn't know it. It getting therapy and didn't know it. It getting therapy and didn't know it. It was like unbeknownst to me, here you are was like unbeknownst to me, here you are was like unbeknownst to me, here you are being my support system. Um, and I being my support system. Um, and I being my support system. Um, and I started writing because I think better

23:17 started writing because I think better started writing because I think better when I write to help Travis and I when I write to help Travis and I when I write to help Travis and I understand it. and he was deployed and I understand it. and he was deployed and I understand it. and he was deployed and I was writing back and forth to him to try was writing back and forth to him to try was writing back and forth to him to try to make sense of it all and for us to to make sense of it all and for us to to make sense of it all and for us to kind of see this through a lens that we kind of see this through a lens that we kind of see this through a lens that we could move forward because it was a lot

23:28 could move forward because it was a lot could move forward because it was a lot on him as well as me and in the end of on him as well as me and in the end of on him as well as me and in the end of it shared it with someone and they went it shared it with someone and they went it shared it with someone and they went you need to share this and I never wrote you need to share this and I never wrote you need to share this and I never wrote it expecting to share it with anyone but it expecting to share it with anyone but it expecting to share it with anyone but my husband my husband my husband >> and um yeah scariest day of my life when >> and um yeah scariest day of my life when

23:41 >> and um yeah scariest day of my life when that thing went public my phone was off that thing went public my phone was off that thing went public my phone was off for a solid eight hours um I was sitting for a solid eight hours um I was sitting for a solid eight hours um I was sitting in a tattoo chair avoiding the responses in a tattoo chair avoiding the responses in a tattoo chair avoiding the responses that I assumed would be judgment that I assumed would be judgment that I assumed would be judgment backlash who knows what. Um it was a backlash who knows what. Um it was a backlash who knows what. Um it was a very different picture when I finally

23:53 very different picture when I finally very different picture when I finally turned that phone back on. Yeah. turned that phone back on. Yeah. turned that phone back on. Yeah. >> The tattoos. Which tattoo is the >> The tattoos. Which tattoo is the >> The tattoos. Which tattoo is the significant one during this uh significant one during this uh significant one during this uh experience. experience. experience. >> Yeah. So I I found um like I said, I >> Yeah. So I I found um like I said, I >> Yeah. So I I found um like I said, I turned I mean tattoos are symbolic for turned I mean tattoos are symbolic for turned I mean tattoos are symbolic for me. I never had any you could see in me. I never had any you could see in me. I never had any you could see in uniform uh throughout my service. This uniform uh throughout my service. This

24:08 uniform uh throughout my service. This one was the first one. Um it's it's here one was the first one. Um it's it's here one was the first one. Um it's it's here kind of under the jacket, but it's um kind of under the jacket, but it's um kind of under the jacket, but it's um it's a set of boot prints on this side it's a set of boot prints on this side it's a set of boot prints on this side going into the fire. Um, and it comes going into the fire. Um, and it comes going into the fire. Um, and it comes out the other side kind of on an uphill out the other side kind of on an uphill out the other side kind of on an uphill path on purpose as the phoenix coming path on purpose as the phoenix coming

24:21 path on purpose as the phoenix coming out of the fire. Um, and I purposefully out of the fire. Um, and I purposefully out of the fire. Um, and I purposefully made sure those bootprints were where I made sure those bootprints were where I made sure those bootprints were where I could see them in the sleeve in the could see them in the sleeve in the could see them in the sleeve in the short sleeve uniform because for me it short sleeve uniform because for me it short sleeve uniform because for me it was it was that reminder that was it was that reminder that was it was that reminder that >> I knew this was going to be hard and I >> I knew this was going to be hard and I

24:32 >> I knew this was going to be hard and I knew there would be judgment and I knew knew there would be judgment and I knew knew there would be judgment and I knew there would be people that went, you're there would be people that went, you're there would be people that went, you're in command still continuing to serve um, in command still continuing to serve um, in command still continuing to serve um, and you're talking about this at levels and you're talking about this at levels and you're talking about this at levels that that aren't okay. And there are that that aren't okay. And there are that that aren't okay. And there are people that that do believe that. And I

24:44 people that that do believe that. And I people that that do believe that. And I had to remind myself that I had to leave had to remind myself that I had to leave had to remind myself that I had to leave those blueprints for others. Um, and I those blueprints for others. Um, and I those blueprints for others. Um, and I had to do it before I turned that phone had to do it before I turned that phone had to do it before I turned that phone on and saw all those messages because I on and saw all those messages because I on and saw all those messages because I wasn't sure what I was going to see. And wasn't sure what I was going to see. And wasn't sure what I was going to see. And I and I knew I needed something to just

24:54 I and I knew I needed something to just I and I knew I needed something to just remind me that even if it was one or two remind me that even if it was one or two remind me that even if it was one or two people that it was still worth it. Um, people that it was still worth it. Um, people that it was still worth it. Um, >> yeah. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> It's almost like transparency is a >> It's almost like transparency is a >> It's almost like transparency is a virtue and a curse. There's there's virtue and a curse. There's there's virtue and a curse. There's there's certain people in your your leadership certain people in your your leadership

25:06 certain people in your your leadership chain that just don't understand why you chain that just don't understand why you chain that just don't understand why you would share these stories, these would share these stories, these would share these stories, these personal events with your fellow airmen. personal events with your fellow airmen. personal events with your fellow airmen. And I struggled with the same thing when And I struggled with the same thing when And I struggled with the same thing when I was in command. I was in command. I was in command. >> I shared some very personal stories and >> I shared some very personal stories and >> I shared some very personal stories and my leadership was very upset with me,

25:23 my leadership was very upset with me, my leadership was very upset with me, >> but I knew that it was the right thing. >> but I knew that it was the right thing. >> but I knew that it was the right thing. Uh, for instance, I was in a medical Uh, for instance, I was in a medical Uh, for instance, I was in a medical line to get my flu shot or something line to get my flu shot or something line to get my flu shot or something like that a couple weeks later and a a like that a couple weeks later and a a like that a couple weeks later and a a woman, perfect stranger I've never met woman, perfect stranger I've never met woman, perfect stranger I've never met in our unit, just came up and hugged me

25:37 in our unit, just came up and hugged me in our unit, just came up and hugged me saying, "Thank you so much for sharing saying, "Thank you so much for sharing saying, "Thank you so much for sharing those stories." those stories." those stories." >> Yeah. Why is it that some of our senior >> Yeah. Why is it that some of our senior >> Yeah. Why is it that some of our senior leaders don't see that? Um, we're in a leaders don't see that? Um, we're in a leaders don't see that? Um, we're in a cultural shift where that invincibility, cultural shift where that invincibility, cultural shift where that invincibility, that armor is not always the answer.

25:51 that armor is not always the answer. that armor is not always the answer. >> Yeah. I think I was very lucky that in >> Yeah. I think I was very lucky that in >> Yeah. I think I was very lucky that in the period of time and really the three the period of time and really the three the period of time and really the three or four years after I shared my story, or four years after I shared my story, or four years after I shared my story, we had an interesting alignment of we had an interesting alignment of we had an interesting alignment of leaders where I think more of them got leaders where I think more of them got leaders where I think more of them got it and got the value of that than

26:07 it and got the value of that than it and got the value of that than didn't. and the responses from leaders didn't. and the responses from leaders didn't. and the responses from leaders through my chain and some of those through my chain and some of those through my chain and some of those supportive individuals that really supportive individuals that really supportive individuals that really encouraged you know encouraged us to encouraged you know encouraged us to encouraged you know encouraged us to grow through the struggle and learn how grow through the struggle and learn how grow through the struggle and learn how to do this differently because they had

26:19 to do this differently because they had to do this differently because they had seen the impact of that. Um I also had seen the impact of that. Um I also had seen the impact of that. Um I also had at one point generic about the room um at one point generic about the room um at one point generic about the room um was sitting in a room and a general was sitting in a room and a general was sitting in a room and a general officer shared that they believed that officer shared that they believed that officer shared that they believed that um as long as we you know faced everyone um as long as we you know faced everyone um as long as we you know faced everyone who was struggling with suicide and told

26:34 who was struggling with suicide and told who was struggling with suicide and told our airmen that our air force deserved our airmen that our air force deserved our airmen that our air force deserved better that that would get them to not better that that would get them to not better that that would get them to not lead themselves to take their own lives. lead themselves to take their own lives. lead themselves to take their own lives. And I was sitting in that room having And I was sitting in that room having And I was sitting in that room having already shared my story and this person already shared my story and this person already shared my story and this person didn't know that. um talked to several

26:47 didn't know that. um talked to several didn't know that. um talked to several people after the fact who had had their people after the fact who had had their people after the fact who had had their own experiences and and it was, you own experiences and and it was, you own experiences and and it was, you know, a statement like that and my know, a statement like that and my know, a statement like that and my darkest place would lead me closer down darkest place would lead me closer down darkest place would lead me closer down that rabbit hole. It's not going to pull that rabbit hole. It's not going to pull that rabbit hole. It's not going to pull me out of it because I believed the

26:59 me out of it because I believed the me out of it because I believed the world was going to be better off without world was going to be better off without world was going to be better off without me. Here's a way to reinforce that me. Here's a way to reinforce that me. Here's a way to reinforce that belief. And what I what I truly believe belief. And what I what I truly believe belief. And what I what I truly believe in those cases, these are in those cases, these are in those cases, these are well-intentioned people that want to do well-intentioned people that want to do well-intentioned people that want to do better. They want to shake people up by

27:09 better. They want to shake people up by better. They want to shake people up by the shoulders. they have some of the the shoulders. they have some of the the shoulders. they have some of the same assumption I did where you go same assumption I did where you go same assumption I did where you go someone made a choice to do this thing someone made a choice to do this thing someone made a choice to do this thing and I don't understand it but I don't and I don't understand it but I don't and I don't understand it but I don't want them to do it. We don't normalize want them to do it. We don't normalize want them to do it. We don't normalize the tougher parts of the conversation.

27:19 the tougher parts of the conversation. the tougher parts of the conversation. We don't talk about the nuance and um We don't talk about the nuance and um We don't talk about the nuance and um the many different lenses through which the many different lenses through which the many different lenses through which people lose hope. Like suicide is a people lose hope. Like suicide is a people lose hope. Like suicide is a disease of hopelessness and people lose disease of hopelessness and people lose disease of hopelessness and people lose hope for many different reasons and it hope for many different reasons and it hope for many different reasons and it doesn't always feel or look the way you

27:32 doesn't always feel or look the way you doesn't always feel or look the way you expect it to. And I mean, I talked to so expect it to. And I mean, I talked to so expect it to. And I mean, I talked to so many people who went, "Man, sober me many people who went, "Man, sober me many people who went, "Man, sober me would never have had those thoughts." would never have had those thoughts." would never have had those thoughts." But when substances become a thing, and But when substances become a thing, and But when substances become a thing, and for our military, there's an epidemic of for our military, there's an epidemic of for our military, there's an epidemic of alcoholism that's been, you know, there

27:45 alcoholism that's been, you know, there alcoholism that's been, you know, there and and a normalizing of of drinking to and and a normalizing of of drinking to and and a normalizing of of drinking to cope with things that's been there for a cope with things that's been there for a cope with things that's been there for a very, very long time. And I'm still I'm very, very long time. And I'm still I'm very, very long time. And I'm still I'm not a sober person who doesn't drink, not a sober person who doesn't drink, not a sober person who doesn't drink, but I even realized on a bad day that's, but I even realized on a bad day that's, but I even realized on a bad day that's, you know, I' I've said multiple times if

27:58 you know, I' I've said multiple times if you know, I' I've said multiple times if if I had felt substances were an option if I had felt substances were an option if I had felt substances were an option that year after my son, I don't think I that year after my son, I don't think I that year after my son, I don't think I would be here. Um because I was so would be here. Um because I was so would be here. Um because I was so severely anxious to an unhealthy level severely anxious to an unhealthy level severely anxious to an unhealthy level about keeping him safe, I wouldn't touch about keeping him safe, I wouldn't touch about keeping him safe, I wouldn't touch a drop of alcohol or any substance um

28:11 a drop of alcohol or any substance um a drop of alcohol or any substance um because I was feeding him and keeping because I was feeding him and keeping because I was feeding him and keeping him safe. If I had, I can see where that him safe. If I had, I can see where that him safe. If I had, I can see where that slippery slope goes. And it's not as slippery slope goes. And it's not as slippery slope goes. And it's not as simple as this person got weak and they simple as this person got weak and they simple as this person got weak and they made a choice, you know, and I think made a choice, you know, and I think made a choice, you know, and I think allowing our leaders to share their own

28:25 allowing our leaders to share their own allowing our leaders to share their own experiences with each other. Um, I know experiences with each other. Um, I know experiences with each other. Um, I know some very brave leaders that did that on some very brave leaders that did that on some very brave leaders that did that on stages or in public forums that started stages or in public forums that started stages or in public forums that started to shift those stigmas and many of them to shift those stigmas and many of them to shift those stigmas and many of them are still serving and and doing are still serving and and doing are still serving and and doing meaningful work. Um, I think the second

28:38 meaningful work. Um, I think the second meaningful work. Um, I think the second you try to shut that down and say that you try to shut that down and say that you try to shut that down and say that any sort of struggle is weakness and any sort of struggle is weakness and any sort of struggle is weakness and that we shouldn't show it or acknowledge that we shouldn't show it or acknowledge that we shouldn't show it or acknowledge it and if you show it, you're not worthy it and if you show it, you're not worthy it and if you show it, you're not worthy of service, that's a very dangerous um of service, that's a very dangerous um of service, that's a very dangerous um start to a very slippery slope. Man,

28:51 start to a very slippery slope. Man, start to a very slippery slope. Man, >> this brings me to your new job at the at >> this brings me to your new job at the at >> this brings me to your new job at the at the Bush Center. the Bush Center. the Bush Center. >> You retired about almost two years ago >> You retired about almost two years ago >> You retired about almost two years ago to the day, right? You retired in

29:00 The Moment Everything Changed

29:00 to the day, right? You retired in to the day, right? You retired in November. I was fortunate enough to be November. I was fortunate enough to be November. I was fortunate enough to be there for your retirement ceremony. My there for your retirement ceremony. My there for your retirement ceremony. My goodness, what a wonderful way to go goodness, what a wonderful way to go goodness, what a wonderful way to go out, you know, in front of the out, you know, in front of the out, you know, in front of the >> the Washington Monument and the Lincoln >> the Washington Monument and the Lincoln >> the Washington Monument and the Lincoln Memorial. Weather be damned, right? It

29:11 Memorial. Weather be damned, right? It Memorial. Weather be damned, right? It was it was a great was it was a great was it was a great >> You were the man behind the lens >> You were the man behind the lens >> You were the man behind the lens capturing it for all of us. And I was so capturing it for all of us. And I was so capturing it for all of us. And I was so honored to be behind the lens because I honored to be behind the lens because I honored to be behind the lens because I saw the emotion and how many people, saw the emotion and how many people, saw the emotion and how many people, >> how many lives that you impacted. And so

29:22 >> how many lives that you impacted. And so >> how many lives that you impacted. And so now you have this 20 years of service now you have this 20 years of service now you have this 20 years of service >> and this culture and this support and >> and this culture and this support and >> and this culture and this support and now you got to take that off and start now you got to take that off and start now you got to take that off and start that new chapter. that new chapter. that new chapter. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How did taking that uniform off and then >> How did taking that uniform off and then >> How did taking that uniform off and then now leading you into your new role at

29:38 now leading you into your new role at now leading you into your new role at the uh the Bush Center if I'm saying the uh the Bush Center if I'm saying the uh the Bush Center if I'm saying >> it's not technically a job. It's a >> it's not technically a job. It's a >> it's not technically a job. It's a program alongside the other work I do. program alongside the other work I do. program alongside the other work I do. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yes. >> Walk us through that that path when you >> Walk us through that that path when you >> Walk us through that that path when you had to take the uniform off.

29:49 had to take the uniform off. had to take the uniform off. >> So, everybody sees what they see on >> So, everybody sees what they see on >> So, everybody sees what they see on social media and they feel like just social media and they feel like just social media and they feel like just these beautiful success stories, right? these beautiful success stories, right? these beautiful success stories, right? Um, even in the metal mental health Um, even in the metal mental health Um, even in the metal mental health arena, I had people say, "We only want arena, I had people say, "We only want arena, I had people say, "We only want success stories to show people and it's

29:59 success stories to show people and it's success stories to show people and it's like life is messy and the path to like life is messy and the path to like life is messy and the path to success and and to fulfillment is success and and to fulfillment is success and and to fulfillment is messy." And coming out of uniform, we messy." And coming out of uniform, we messy." And coming out of uniform, we were in DC. We didn't know we were going were in DC. We didn't know we were going were in DC. We didn't know we were going to move. We found out we moved across or to move. We found out we moved across or to move. We found out we moved across or we were going to move across the country

30:10 we were going to move across the country we were going to move across the country which changed my path because staying in which changed my path because staying in which changed my path because staying in DC leads you towards things that are you DC leads you towards things that are you DC leads you towards things that are you know dominant here in DC that would feel know dominant here in DC that would feel know dominant here in DC that would feel like success. Um whether or not they like success. Um whether or not they like success. Um whether or not they would have been a path to my purpose and would have been a path to my purpose and would have been a path to my purpose and where I was meant to be in life. I don't

30:24 where I was meant to be in life. I don't where I was meant to be in life. I don't I don't not sure that's true anymore. Um I don't not sure that's true anymore. Um I don't not sure that's true anymore. Um and so for me it was these shifts that and so for me it was these shifts that and so for me it was these shifts that life shoved me in directions that we life shoved me in directions that we life shoved me in directions that we would have resisted. um we would have would have resisted. um we would have would have resisted. um we would have never chosen for me to retire us to move never chosen for me to retire us to move never chosen for me to retire us to move across the country, make all these

30:36 across the country, make all these across the country, make all these changes all at once, this beautiful baby changes all at once, this beautiful baby changes all at once, this beautiful baby stepping plan, and life says, "No, stepping plan, and life says, "No, stepping plan, and life says, "No, you're going to rip off all the you're going to rip off all the you're going to rip off all the band-aids at once, and then we're going band-aids at once, and then we're going band-aids at once, and then we're going to figure this out." And I was very to figure this out." And I was very to figure this out." And I was very blessed my first step back into work. Um

30:50 blessed my first step back into work. Um blessed my first step back into work. Um I was I was about to step out on my own. I was I was about to step out on my own. I was I was about to step out on my own. I I wasn't finding what I wanted to find I I wasn't finding what I wanted to find I I wasn't finding what I wanted to find in some of the companies I was talking in some of the companies I was talking in some of the companies I was talking to and some of those more traditional to and some of those more traditional to and some of those more traditional routes. And the first thing I was routes. And the first thing I was routes. And the first thing I was connected to um was my work with Victory

31:00 connected to um was my work with Victory connected to um was my work with Victory Strategies. and I was speaking um I I Strategies. and I was speaking um I I Strategies. and I was speaking um I I was doing work in a leadership arena and was doing work in a leadership arena and was doing work in a leadership arena and they brought me in for for that type of they brought me in for for that type of they brought me in for for that type of work and you know it is not a full-time work and you know it is not a full-time work and you know it is not a full-time job it's whatever I choose for it to be job it's whatever I choose for it to be job it's whatever I choose for it to be but I'm able to speak be a speaker and a

31:15 but I'm able to speak be a speaker and a but I'm able to speak be a speaker and a coach which can be very isolating work coach which can be very isolating work coach which can be very isolating work with a team of people and so for me that with a team of people and so for me that with a team of people and so for me that was a very beautiful thing we learn from was a very beautiful thing we learn from was a very beautiful thing we learn from each other um it's an incredible team of each other um it's an incredible team of each other um it's an incredible team of people and um I can continue that people and um I can continue that people and um I can continue that meaningful work and not feel like I'm

31:28 meaningful work and not feel like I'm meaningful work and not feel like I'm alone in that work um it's also a type alone in that work um it's also a type alone in that work um it's also a type of work that really fills me up and gave of work that really fills me up and gave of work that really fills me up and gave me what I needed to step back into the me what I needed to step back into the me what I needed to step back into the veteran arena and the tougher arena. Um, veteran arena and the tougher arena. Um, veteran arena and the tougher arena. Um, when I stepped out of uniform, when I stepped out of uniform, when I stepped out of uniform, I I had to take a step away from that

31:43 I I had to take a step away from that I I had to take a step away from that work. Um, and I did a lot of underground work. Um, and I did a lot of underground work. Um, and I did a lot of underground research and seeking to understand what research and seeking to understand what research and seeking to understand what was going on out of uniform. But truly, was going on out of uniform. But truly, was going on out of uniform. But truly, there, you know, are some toxic elements there, you know, are some toxic elements there, you know, are some toxic elements to working inside a bureaucracy and to working inside a bureaucracy and to working inside a bureaucracy and seeing when that followth through

31:56 seeing when that followth through seeing when that followth through doesn't happen the way it maybe should doesn't happen the way it maybe should doesn't happen the way it maybe should have or could have. and some of the have or could have. and some of the have or could have. and some of the things I stepped away from, I needed a things I stepped away from, I needed a things I stepped away from, I needed a breather to see if I I felt like I could breather to see if I I felt like I could breather to see if I I felt like I could find the right step back into that work. find the right step back into that work. find the right step back into that work. And that is the Bush Institute is a

32:10 And that is the Bush Institute is a And that is the Bush Institute is a program where none of us work for the program where none of us work for the program where none of us work for the Bush Institute. Um they they bring Bush Institute. Um they they bring Bush Institute. Um they they bring people in through their veteran people in through their veteran people in through their veteran leadership program from this the widest leadership program from this the widest leadership program from this the widest range you could possibly imagine of range you could possibly imagine of range you could possibly imagine of people trying to make impact in the people trying to make impact in the people trying to make impact in the veteran space. And it's facilitated by veteran space. And it's facilitated by veteran space. And it's facilitated by Todd Connor who founded Bunker Labs.

32:27 Todd Connor who founded Bunker Labs. Todd Connor who founded Bunker Labs. Incredible human who just brings us Incredible human who just brings us Incredible human who just brings us together and shows us how to collaborate together and shows us how to collaborate together and shows us how to collaborate and team with each other and step into and team with each other and step into and team with each other and step into that space in a way that feels that space in a way that feels that space in a way that feels different. It's just beautifully different. It's just beautifully different. It's just beautifully collaborative. Um, the Bush Institute is

32:38 collaborative. Um, the Bush Institute is collaborative. Um, the Bush Institute is all about bringing different all about bringing different all about bringing different perspectives together and showing us how perspectives together and showing us how perspectives together and showing us how to engage each other in spaces that to engage each other in spaces that to engage each other in spaces that might feel like there should be conflict might feel like there should be conflict might feel like there should be conflict or friction and how do we overcome that or friction and how do we overcome that or friction and how do we overcome that instead of avoiding those tougher spaces

32:51 instead of avoiding those tougher spaces instead of avoiding those tougher spaces which if there is anything we need in which if there is anything we need in which if there is anything we need in the world right now. It's learning how the world right now. It's learning how the world right now. It's learning how to step into a space when we disagree to step into a space when we disagree to step into a space when we disagree with each other and find ways to do it with each other and find ways to do it with each other and find ways to do it differently. And that has been their differently. And that has been their differently. And that has been their mission and it's taken taken me

33:02 mission and it's taken taken me mission and it's taken taken me reflectively to spaces I didn't expect. reflectively to spaces I didn't expect. reflectively to spaces I didn't expect. It was okay, this is going to help me It was okay, this is going to help me It was okay, this is going to help me facilitate my impact in the veteran facilitate my impact in the veteran facilitate my impact in the veteran space. It's also shown me how leaders space. It's also shown me how leaders space. It's also shown me how leaders can come together in ways that I had can come together in ways that I had can come together in ways that I had maybe lost a bit of hope and faith of

33:14 maybe lost a bit of hope and faith of maybe lost a bit of hope and faith of and create impact and deal with tough and create impact and deal with tough and create impact and deal with tough things together and overcome their things together and overcome their things together and overcome their differences to to make a really big differences to to make a really big differences to to make a really big difference. And so, um, yeah, that's difference. And so, um, yeah, that's difference. And so, um, yeah, that's those are both of those things will those are both of those things will those are both of those things will always be things that are a part of my

33:26 always be things that are a part of my always be things that are a part of my somebody called it a portfolio stepping somebody called it a portfolio stepping somebody called it a portfolio stepping out. They're like, you know, you don't out. They're like, you know, you don't out. They're like, you know, you don't have to do just a normal job. People have to do just a normal job. People have to do just a normal job. People don't do that anymore. You can have your don't do that anymore. You can have your don't do that anymore. You can have your portfolio of things. And so for me, both portfolio of things. And so for me, both portfolio of things. And so for me, both of those spaces are important. Um, to

33:36 of those spaces are important. Um, to of those spaces are important. Um, to touch on your earlier question about touch on your earlier question about touch on your earlier question about being being a woman stepping out of being being a woman stepping out of being being a woman stepping out of uniform, the piece that I think was uniform, the piece that I think was uniform, the piece that I think was most, most, most, I don't know, disruptive or just I don't know, disruptive or just I don't know, disruptive or just disorienting for me were the number of disorienting for me were the number of disorienting for me were the number of people that challenged me and in maybe

33:52 people that challenged me and in maybe people that challenged me and in maybe more of a negative way to ask why I more of a negative way to ask why I more of a negative way to ask why I would even consider working. You don't would even consider working. You don't would even consider working. You don't have to anymore. Just you're done with have to anymore. Just you're done with have to anymore. Just you're done with that that that >> now. Why wouldn't you just step into >> now. Why wouldn't you just step into >> now. Why wouldn't you just step into life? Just be a mom. just do this, just life? Just be a mom. just do this, just life? Just be a mom. just do this, just support your family. And I honor those support your family. And I honor those support your family. And I honor those people that that is their journey. people that that is their journey.

34:06 people that that is their journey. That's not me. I am the best version of That's not me. I am the best version of That's not me. I am the best version of me when I'm working and engaging and me when I'm working and engaging and me when I'm working and engaging and challenging myself um through projects, challenging myself um through projects, challenging myself um through projects, through work and you know, being a through work and you know, being a through work and you know, being a parent. And stepping out of uniform parent. And stepping out of uniform parent. And stepping out of uniform allowed me to, you know, coach my kids allowed me to, you know, coach my kids

34:19 allowed me to, you know, coach my kids little league three years in a row and little league three years in a row and little league three years in a row and be there for things and make choices for be there for things and make choices for be there for things and make choices for when I'm gone. But I'm one of those when I'm gone. But I'm one of those when I'm gone. But I'm one of those people that will probably work till my people that will probably work till my people that will probably work till my end of life. end of life. end of life. >> Um and I was in a workshop. the number >> Um and I was in a workshop. the number >> Um and I was in a workshop. the number of people that challenged um challenged

34:34 of people that challenged um challenged of people that challenged um challenged where my head was at or wondered if where my head was at or wondered if where my head was at or wondered if maybe I was just doing it because I felt maybe I was just doing it because I felt maybe I was just doing it because I felt like I had to made me feel like like I had to made me feel like like I had to made me feel like something was wrong for me, wrong with something was wrong for me, wrong with something was wrong for me, wrong with me for stepping back into a life of me for stepping back into a life of me for stepping back into a life of purpose. Um and I had a few people also

34:45 purpose. Um and I had a few people also purpose. Um and I had a few people also veterans share that they went through veterans share that they went through veterans share that they went through that same journey that they were that same journey that they were that same journey that they were conflicted between doing absolutely you conflicted between doing absolutely you conflicted between doing absolutely you know nothing and in a work sense and know nothing and in a work sense and know nothing and in a work sense and then stepping back into meaningful work then stepping back into meaningful work then stepping back into meaningful work and and also read some books and did

34:58 and and also read some books and did and and also read some books and did some research on those blue zone some research on those blue zone some research on those blue zone countries where people live their countries where people live their countries where people live their longest and some of them don't even have longest and some of them don't even have longest and some of them don't even have a concept of retirement which helped me a concept of retirement which helped me a concept of retirement which helped me normalize you know how I felt and that I normalize you know how I felt and that I normalize you know how I felt and that I felt a pull towards finding my place um

35:10 felt a pull towards finding my place um felt a pull towards finding my place um but that that was going to look but that that was going to look but that that was going to look different for me than it was for other different for me than it was for other different for me than it was for other people. And it might not be a people. And it might not be a people. And it might not be a traditional work career path. Um, but traditional work career path. Um, but traditional work career path. Um, but that I'll always be stepping into those that I'll always be stepping into those that I'll always be stepping into those arenas and and figuring out where I'm

35:21 arenas and and figuring out where I'm arenas and and figuring out where I'm meant to be in a work sense and being meant to be in a work sense and being meant to be in a work sense and being there for my family and I have to choose there for my family and I have to choose there for my family and I have to choose one or the other. one or the other. one or the other. >> The two of us are very similar in that >> The two of us are very similar in that >> The two of us are very similar in that capacity. Uh, when I retired, everybody capacity. Uh, when I retired, everybody capacity. Uh, when I retired, everybody said, you know, take three months off,

35:33 said, you know, take three months off, said, you know, take three months off, get take a breather, you know, go do get take a breather, you know, go do get take a breather, you know, go do some things. And and I did match up some some things. And and I did match up some some things. And and I did match up some of those vacation bucket list items. of those vacation bucket list items. of those vacation bucket list items. >> Yeah. immediately after retirement, but >> Yeah. immediately after retirement, but >> Yeah. immediately after retirement, but it's just not in my nature to to sit it's just not in my nature to to sit it's just not in my nature to to sit still.

35:46 still. still. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But then I ask myself sometimes, is it >> But then I ask myself sometimes, is it >> But then I ask myself sometimes, is it because I'm running from something? Am I because I'm running from something? Am I because I'm running from something? Am I afraid to acknowledge something? I have afraid to acknowledge something? I have afraid to acknowledge something? I have dark things from my past. I've done dark things from my past. I've done dark things from my past. I've done things in the military that I still things in the military that I still things in the military that I still struggle with to this day. I I know

36:00 Severe Postpartum Depression — The Year of Silence

36:02 struggle with to this day. I I know struggle with to this day. I I know everything I did was lawful, legal, and everything I did was lawful, legal, and everything I did was lawful, legal, and um but I still struggle with those um but I still struggle with those um but I still struggle with those things. So, things. So, things. So, are we running away from those problems are we running away from those problems are we running away from those problems or do we just truly have that engine or do we just truly have that engine or do we just truly have that engine that never turns off? that never turns off? that never turns off? >> Yeah. I mean, both and yes. I mean, I >> Yeah. I mean, both and yes. I mean, I

36:20 >> Yeah. I mean, both and yes. I mean, I know know know >> for me, I mean, it's a journey and it's >> for me, I mean, it's a journey and it's >> for me, I mean, it's a journey and it's work to figure those things out, right? work to figure those things out, right? work to figure those things out, right? And to retool And to retool And to retool how you your mindset and how you how you your mindset and how you how you your mindset and how you approach those things. And I am one of approach those things. And I am one of approach those things. And I am one of those people who if I don't let my those people who if I don't let my those people who if I don't let my engine turn off, that is not a healthy

36:35 engine turn off, that is not a healthy engine turn off, that is not a healthy place. and recognizing what was this place. and recognizing what was this place. and recognizing what was this persistent engine running just because I persistent engine running just because I persistent engine running just because I felt like I had to and I didn't know how felt like I had to and I didn't know how felt like I had to and I didn't know how to stop or didn't want to sit with the to stop or didn't want to sit with the to stop or didn't want to sit with the silence when I did because truly I think silence when I did because truly I think silence when I did because truly I think for many of us in military we keep

36:50 for many of us in military we keep for many of us in military we keep running because we don't want to sit running because we don't want to sit running because we don't want to sit with that quiet moment and and see what with that quiet moment and and see what with that quiet moment and and see what comes up. It took me, I mean, going into comes up. It took me, I mean, going into comes up. It took me, I mean, going into therapy and programs that help me therapy and programs that help me therapy and programs that help me understand um as a veteran, you know, understand um as a veteran, you know, understand um as a veteran, you know, what does it look like to grow through

37:02 what does it look like to grow through what does it look like to grow through your trauma versus to, you know, see it your trauma versus to, you know, see it your trauma versus to, you know, see it as a medical condition that just needs as a medical condition that just needs as a medical condition that just needs treated and wonderful nonprofit treated and wonderful nonprofit treated and wonderful nonprofit organizations. I recently did one where organizations. I recently did one where organizations. I recently did one where they they teach you how to fly fish, but they they teach you how to fly fish, but they they teach you how to fly fish, but they also teach you how to connect and

37:12 they also teach you how to connect and they also teach you how to connect and build those pillars in your life. And build those pillars in your life. And build those pillars in your life. And I'm like, here here I am with this new I'm like, here here I am with this new I'm like, here here I am with this new skill, but also maybe really assessing skill, but also maybe really assessing skill, but also maybe really assessing and looking at what I'm doing in life. and looking at what I'm doing in life. and looking at what I'm doing in life. And it's not all just mental health. I And it's not all just mental health. I And it's not all just mental health. I have a leadership coach, you know, I am

37:24 have a leadership coach, you know, I am have a leadership coach, you know, I am doing those things for myself. And doing those things for myself. And doing those things for myself. And sometimes it takes trying something and sometimes it takes trying something and sometimes it takes trying something and having the awareness that now you go, having the awareness that now you go, having the awareness that now you go, okay, is this me doing this cuz I feel okay, is this me doing this cuz I feel okay, is this me doing this cuz I feel like I have to. Um, for me, I had to like I have to. Um, for me, I had to like I have to. Um, for me, I had to step away from some things. And there

37:37 step away from some things. And there step away from some things. And there were things I stepped away from that I were things I stepped away from that I were things I stepped away from that I thought were my purpose in life that I thought were my purpose in life that I thought were my purpose in life that I few months later, year later, I didn't few months later, year later, I didn't few months later, year later, I didn't want anything to do with stepping back want anything to do with stepping back want anything to do with stepping back towards them. And there were things that towards them. And there were things that towards them. And there were things that I felt a pull towards that being away

37:50 I felt a pull towards that being away I felt a pull towards that being away from it was was tougher than being in from it was was tougher than being in from it was was tougher than being in it, even though it was a tough arena. it, even though it was a tough arena. it, even though it was a tough arena. And that's the veteran space for me. And that's the veteran space for me. And that's the veteran space for me. Being away from it was an unhealthier Being away from it was an unhealthier Being away from it was an unhealthier place than being in it. And figuring out place than being in it. And figuring out place than being in it. And figuring out how to take those steps back into that

38:02 how to take those steps back into that how to take those steps back into that arena. And I think everybody's arena. And I think everybody's arena. And I think everybody's experience is different. You've got to experience is different. You've got to experience is different. You've got to it's almost like you're re-engineering it's almost like you're re-engineering it's almost like you're re-engineering your calculus. And I went through one your calculus. And I went through one your calculus. And I went through one program um I encourage many veterans program um I encourage many veterans program um I encourage many veterans towards commit foundation. It's like a

38:14 towards commit foundation. It's like a towards commit foundation. It's like a transition program and they um did this transition program and they um did this transition program and they um did this exercise where it's like you know the exercise where it's like you know the exercise where it's like you know the typical bubble with all the spokes typical bubble with all the spokes typical bubble with all the spokes coming off of it. They're like you coming off of it. They're like you coming off of it. They're like you military veterans and they're all military veterans and they're all military veterans and they're all veterans themselves but they're you know

38:25 veterans themselves but they're you know veterans themselves but they're you know like we're past this. You put the like we're past this. You put the like we're past this. You put the military in the middle and you feel like military in the middle and you feel like military in the middle and you feel like your whole life is off of this thing your whole life is off of this thing your whole life is off of this thing that you can't control and you build that you can't control and you build that you can't control and you build everything off of that and it's like all everything off of that and it's like all everything off of that and it's like all integrated into this life. Well, when

38:35 integrated into this life. Well, when integrated into this life. Well, when you transition you transition you transition that that realization that doesn't have that that realization that doesn't have that that realization that doesn't have to be that way takes people decades to be that way takes people decades to be that way takes people decades sometimes. what does it look like if you sometimes. what does it look like if you sometimes. what does it look like if you put yourself in the middle and then you put yourself in the middle and then you put yourself in the middle and then you they you know in their case that program they you know in their case that program they you know in their case that program did a lot for me to make me realize here did a lot for me to make me realize here did a lot for me to make me realize here are the things that are non-negotiable

38:49 are the things that are non-negotiable are the things that are non-negotiable in my life if I actually let myself in my life if I actually let myself in my life if I actually let myself think about my ideal day and my ideal think about my ideal day and my ideal think about my ideal day and my ideal experience now once I know those things experience now once I know those things experience now once I know those things and have done the reflection read the and have done the reflection read the and have done the reflection read the books done the exercises to be aware of books done the exercises to be aware of books done the exercises to be aware of that my calculus has shifted so when

39:03 that my calculus has shifted so when that my calculus has shifted so when something's put in front of me that something's put in front of me that something's put in front of me that might pay a lot of money but doesn't might pay a lot of money but doesn't might pay a lot of money but doesn't tick some of those boxes I feel tick some of those boxes I feel tick some of those boxes I feel different about it and I tell people you different about it and I tell people you different about it and I tell people you know even though why I joined In the Air know even though why I joined In the Air know even though why I joined In the Air Force, I always felt drawn to it. That

39:14 Force, I always felt drawn to it. That Force, I always felt drawn to it. That feels like some fluffy gut instinct. I'm feels like some fluffy gut instinct. I'm feels like some fluffy gut instinct. I'm a hyper analytical person. I overanalyze a hyper analytical person. I overanalyze a hyper analytical person. I overanalyze everything. But when you feed yourself everything. But when you feed yourself everything. But when you feed yourself and analyze some of those thought and analyze some of those thought and analyze some of those thought processes and habit patterns, that processes and habit patterns, that processes and habit patterns, that calculus and that gut instinct leads you

39:27 calculus and that gut instinct leads you calculus and that gut instinct leads you somewhere else. And so, you have to do somewhere else. And so, you have to do somewhere else. And so, you have to do the work. This isn't just something the work. This isn't just something the work. This isn't just something where you choose to do the things you where you choose to do the things you where you choose to do the things you love. I didn't know what I wanted to do love. I didn't know what I wanted to do love. I didn't know what I wanted to do because it was right for me and what I because it was right for me and what I because it was right for me and what I wanted to do because of expectation. And

39:39 wanted to do because of expectation. And wanted to do because of expectation. And that took me probably a year and I think that took me probably a year and I think that took me probably a year and I think it's probably just a forever journey to it's probably just a forever journey to it's probably just a forever journey to figure out as long as you're thinking figure out as long as you're thinking figure out as long as you're thinking about it. I think you keep leading about it. I think you keep leading about it. I think you keep leading yourself in different directions and yourself in different directions and yourself in different directions and then you realize um in this world out of

39:52 then you realize um in this world out of then you realize um in this world out of uniform your choices can change as your uniform your choices can change as your uniform your choices can change as your calculus changes and doing what feels calculus changes and doing what feels calculus changes and doing what feels right for you in that moment and moving right for you in that moment and moving right for you in that moment and moving through and being somebody that lives a through and being somebody that lives a through and being somebody that lives a life of service and fulfillment whether life of service and fulfillment whether life of service and fulfillment whether you're wearing a uniform or not. And

40:06 you're wearing a uniform or not. And you're wearing a uniform or not. And that's what it's all about. And you that's what it's all about. And you that's what it's all about. And you can't compare your journey to other can't compare your journey to other can't compare your journey to other people's or chase their expectations. I people's or chase their expectations. I people's or chase their expectations. I think that's the biggest piece of it. think that's the biggest piece of it. think that's the biggest piece of it. It's hard to do. It's hard to do. It's hard to do. >> The uh the commit foundation, my >> The uh the commit foundation, my

40:18 >> The uh the commit foundation, my goodness, I I loved it. It was it was goodness, I I loved it. It was it was goodness, I I loved it. It was it was life-changing. It was life-saving. life-changing. It was life-saving. life-changing. It was life-saving. >> Um I wouldn't have been doing these >> Um I wouldn't have been doing these >> Um I wouldn't have been doing these interviews interviews interviews >> or following my photography passion if >> or following my photography passion if >> or following my photography passion if it wasn't for the Commit Foundation. I it wasn't for the Commit Foundation. I it wasn't for the Commit Foundation. I mean,

40:30 mean, mean, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> I I don't make money from this. I lose >> I I don't make money from this. I lose >> I I don't make money from this. I lose money. I need I need sponsors. You know, money. I need I need sponsors. You know, money. I need I need sponsors. You know, I'm not nonprofit, but I'm not I'm not nonprofit, but I'm not I'm not nonprofit, but I'm not forprofit. So everything I do goes right forprofit. So everything I do goes right forprofit. So everything I do goes right back towards the veteran space. And it's back towards the veteran space. And it's back towards the veteran space. And it's because the veterans, the the military

40:42 because the veterans, the the military because the veterans, the the military has saved my life. It gave me the has saved my life. It gave me the has saved my life. It gave me the purpose that I needed. purpose that I needed. purpose that I needed. >> Oh gosh. >> Oh gosh. >> Oh gosh. >> And you know, earlier you were talking >> And you know, earlier you were talking >> And you know, earlier you were talking about social media and suicide and some about social media and suicide and some about social media and suicide and some of the things that we're going through of the things that we're going through of the things that we're going through right now with our youth.

40:54 right now with our youth. right now with our youth. >> As I was preparing for retirement, I >> As I was preparing for retirement, I >> As I was preparing for retirement, I started talking to the chaplain at the started talking to the chaplain at the started talking to the chaplain at the Pentagon. Pentagon. Pentagon. >> And I grew up in a faith-based family, >> And I grew up in a faith-based family, >> And I grew up in a faith-based family, but I kind of vetored away from that. but I kind of vetored away from that. but I kind of vetored away from that. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. >> And then as I started talking to the

41:08 >> And then as I started talking to the >> And then as I started talking to the pastor again and he told me about this pastor again and he told me about this pastor again and he told me about this place called Reclaim place called Reclaim place called Reclaim >> and Reclaim Ministries is out of >> and Reclaim Ministries is out of >> and Reclaim Ministries is out of Colorado and Ohio. So I flew out to Colorado and Ohio. So I flew out to Colorado and Ohio. So I flew out to Colorado this summer Colorado this summer Colorado this summer >> and it's you're totally disconnected. I >> and it's you're totally disconnected. I

41:21 >> and it's you're totally disconnected. I mean we're like 9 10,000 ft up in the mean we're like 9 10,000 ft up in the mean we're like 9 10,000 ft up in the mountains. No cell service. you know, mountains. No cell service. you know, mountains. No cell service. you know, you you literally put all those devices you you literally put all those devices you you literally put all those devices away and you're just with I was there away and you're just with I was there away and you're just with I was there with about probably 40 men with about probably 40 men with about probably 40 men >> and it was all about >> and it was all about >> and it was all about >> not so much >> not so much >> not so much preaching, but it was more about the preaching, but it was more about the preaching, but it was more about the community and being part of a team where

41:43 community and being part of a team where community and being part of a team where you can share those vulnerabilities. You you can share those vulnerabilities. You you can share those vulnerabilities. You can be there for one another. Hey, they can be there for one another. Hey, they can be there for one another. Hey, they asked one of their questions was, "Okay, asked one of their questions was, "Okay, asked one of their questions was, "Okay, you get a flat tire and you're on the you get a flat tire and you're on the you get a flat tire and you're on the freeway. What do you do?" Well, you you freeway. What do you do?" Well, you you freeway. What do you do?" Well, you you fix a flat tire, right? But what if you

41:57 fix a flat tire, right? But what if you fix a flat tire, right? But what if you couldn't fix a flat tire? Who would you couldn't fix a flat tire? Who would you couldn't fix a flat tire? Who would you call? And I'm thinking to myself, oh, I call? And I'm thinking to myself, oh, I call? And I'm thinking to myself, oh, I would call Triple A. I would call. would call Triple A. I would call. would call Triple A. I would call. They're like, oh, you don't have a They're like, oh, you don't have a They're like, oh, you don't have a friend that you would call. And it hit friend that you would call. And it hit friend that you would call. And it hit home to me that men

42:08 home to me that men home to me that men >> in particular are so independent and >> in particular are so independent and >> in particular are so independent and have this this mantra that they got to have this this mantra that they got to have this this mantra that they got to be tough and got to do everything be tough and got to do everything be tough and got to do everything themselves. that at Reclaim they really themselves. that at Reclaim they really themselves. that at Reclaim they really broke those things down and started to broke those things down and started to broke those things down and started to remind me that that faith is an

42:21 remind me that that faith is an remind me that that faith is an important thing and not clicks and likes important thing and not clicks and likes important thing and not clicks and likes on social media. So, are our kids on social media. So, are our kids on social media. So, are our kids >> not I mean, where where are they missing >> not I mean, where where are they missing >> not I mean, where where are they missing that that community piece? Cuz I'm not that that community piece? Cuz I'm not that that community piece? Cuz I'm not trying to be preachy and say you got to trying to be preachy and say you got to trying to be preachy and say you got to go to church, but we that community,

42:38 go to church, but we that community, go to church, but we that community, right? The military was that community right? The military was that community right? The military was that community for me. And so, when I stepped out of for me. And so, when I stepped out of for me. And so, when I stepped out of uniform, I started to realize that um uniform, I started to realize that um uniform, I started to realize that um >> faith had to be part of my my journey >> faith had to be part of my my journey >> faith had to be part of my my journey going forward. going forward. going forward. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so, what are what are your thoughts?

42:50 >> And so, what are what are your thoughts? >> And so, what are what are your thoughts? I think the community piece is something I think the community piece is something I think the community piece is something we almost take for granted while we're we almost take for granted while we're we almost take for granted while we're in because it's so built into everything in because it's so built into everything in because it's so built into everything we do whether it's at work or at home or we do whether it's at work or at home or we do whether it's at work or at home or um it's a beautiful thing that you don't um it's a beautiful thing that you don't um it's a beautiful thing that you don't realize how impactful it was until you

43:00 Breaking the Stigma — The Story Leaders Never Tell

43:03 realize how impactful it was until you realize how impactful it was until you step away from it in a sense I think and step away from it in a sense I think and step away from it in a sense I think and um I actually had a chaplain um I think um I actually had a chaplain um I think um I actually had a chaplain um I think the beautiful thing about military the beautiful thing about military the beautiful thing about military chaplain is it's not about religion or chaplain is it's not about religion or chaplain is it's not about religion or anything else their definition of faith anything else their definition of faith anything else their definition of faith um is is just beautiful because it's

43:17 um is is just beautiful because it's um is is just beautiful because it's it's life and it's seeing something it's life and it's seeing something it's life and it's seeing something bigger than yourself. And on my last day bigger than yourself. And on my last day bigger than yourself. And on my last day in uniform, I had coffee with the Air in uniform, I had coffee with the Air in uniform, I had coffee with the Air Force chaplain and he encouraged me as Force chaplain and he encouraged me as Force chaplain and he encouraged me as you look back on this life of service you look back on this life of service you look back on this life of service and military journey, it's really easy

43:30 and military journey, it's really easy and military journey, it's really easy either to dwell on the harder parts um either to dwell on the harder parts um either to dwell on the harder parts um or to look forward dwelling on the law, or to look forward dwelling on the law, or to look forward dwelling on the law, what you're losing. And and he shared what you're losing. And and he shared what you're losing. And and he shared with me um his intent because he was with me um his intent because he was with me um his intent because he was about to retire as well to to take every about to retire as well to to take every about to retire as well to to take every day to just remember a story and to

43:44 day to just remember a story and to day to just remember a story and to write a story and to allow yourself to write a story and to allow yourself to write a story and to allow yourself to reflect on those stories from service. reflect on those stories from service. reflect on those stories from service. um you know starting from the beginning um you know starting from the beginning um you know starting from the beginning and I did that for that chunk of time and I did that for that chunk of time and I did that for that chunk of time where people say just take three or four where people say just take three or four where people say just take three or four months off. I did that. I don't want to

43:55 months off. I did that. I don't want to months off. I did that. I don't want to say it was the healthiest portion of my say it was the healthiest portion of my say it was the healthiest portion of my it was necessary. Um but hanging on to it was necessary. Um but hanging on to it was necessary. Um but hanging on to and looking at those stories and how how and looking at those stories and how how and looking at those stories and how how they created a community in so many they created a community in so many they created a community in so many different layers because I stepped out different layers because I stepped out different layers because I stepped out of uniform and suddenly there was a part

44:11 of uniform and suddenly there was a part of uniform and suddenly there was a part of me that felt like I was that you know of me that felt like I was that you know of me that felt like I was that you know whatever you 18 22 year old person that whatever you 18 22 year old person that whatever you 18 22 year old person that stepped into uniform you know and I was stepped into uniform you know and I was stepped into uniform you know and I was you know waiting tables at your local you know waiting tables at your local you know waiting tables at your local Sizzler steakhouse. I was working in the Sizzler steakhouse. I was working in the Sizzler steakhouse. I was working in the Home Depot. I was I was, you know,

44:23 Home Depot. I was I was, you know, Home Depot. I was I was, you know, barely making it through college. And a barely making it through college. And a barely making it through college. And a part of me that insecurity kind of pops part of me that insecurity kind of pops part of me that insecurity kind of pops back in because you go, who am I? And back in because you go, who am I? And back in because you go, who am I? And looking back on those stories, you know, looking back on those stories, you know, looking back on those stories, you know, I learned how to be a leader. I led I learned how to be a leader. I led I learned how to be a leader. I led thousands of people and was given

44:36 thousands of people and was given thousands of people and was given responsibility but was guided on how to responsibility but was guided on how to responsibility but was guided on how to hold on to that responsibility. And hold on to that responsibility. And hold on to that responsibility. And those thousands of people, I'm still those thousands of people, I'm still those thousands of people, I'm still connected to them. The world is a pretty connected to them. The world is a pretty connected to them. The world is a pretty beautiful place these days. Um, I get beautiful place these days. Um, I get beautiful place these days. Um, I get little check-ins and messages. when I

44:49 little check-ins and messages. when I little check-ins and messages. when I mentioned earlier there's people who mentioned earlier there's people who mentioned earlier there's people who handed me those one of them was an handed me those one of them was an handed me those one of them was an actual sticky note but shared those actual sticky note but shared those actual sticky note but shared those stories with me after I shared my stories with me after I shared my stories with me after I shared my experience we're all checking in on each experience we're all checking in on each experience we're all checking in on each other those that that's a feedback loop

44:59 other those that that's a feedback loop other those that that's a feedback loop that doesn't stop and you know I found that doesn't stop and you know I found that doesn't stop and you know I found myself in a community that just wrapped myself in a community that just wrapped myself in a community that just wrapped me in their arms in so many instances um me in their arms in so many instances um me in their arms in so many instances um you know I talked about our journey you know I talked about our journey you know I talked about our journey having kids I had one of my toughest having kids I had one of my toughest having kids I had one of my toughest miscarriages was deployed and not here

45:11 miscarriages was deployed and not here miscarriages was deployed and not here and his community and leadership wrapped and his community and leadership wrapped and his community and leadership wrapped him up and took care of him um mine took him up and took care of him um mine took him up and took care of him um mine took care of me in ways that I you I'm trying care of me in ways that I you I'm trying care of me in ways that I you I'm trying to stiff arm. I'm fine. Everything's to stiff arm. I'm fine. Everything's to stiff arm. I'm fine. Everything's great. It's, you know, lead pretend I'm great. It's, you know, lead pretend I'm great. It's, you know, lead pretend I'm not here. Don't look over here because

45:23 not here. Don't look over here because not here. Don't look over here because I'm used to struggling on my own. And I I'm used to struggling on my own. And I I'm used to struggling on my own. And I think you feel like you lose that. But think you feel like you lose that. But think you feel like you lose that. But it's we also know how to build it. And it's we also know how to build it. And it's we also know how to build it. And it's also still there. And you wherever it's also still there. And you wherever it's also still there. And you wherever you find it, it's a necessary part of you find it, it's a necessary part of you find it, it's a necessary part of our DNA once you've lived that way and

45:38 our DNA once you've lived that way and our DNA once you've lived that way and had that kind of community. But being had that kind of community. But being had that kind of community. But being there and reaching out to those folks there and reaching out to those folks there and reaching out to those folks who feel like they lost it and don't who feel like they lost it and don't who feel like they lost it and don't have a place for it, whether it's, you have a place for it, whether it's, you have a place for it, whether it's, you know, wherever they find it. Um it's a know, wherever they find it. Um it's a know, wherever they find it. Um it's a very lonely moment transitioning out of

45:50 very lonely moment transitioning out of very lonely moment transitioning out of uniform even if you're surrounded by uniform even if you're surrounded by uniform even if you're surrounded by people and those of us who are lucky to people and those of us who are lucky to people and those of us who are lucky to have that community or find it or have that community or find it or have that community or find it or maintain it. Um pulling those other maintain it. Um pulling those other maintain it. Um pulling those other people into it and and finding ways to people into it and and finding ways to people into it and and finding ways to get them connected with things that are

46:02 get them connected with things that are get them connected with things that are meaningful for them because that's one meaningful for them because that's one meaningful for them because that's one of those toughest pivot points for of those toughest pivot points for of those toughest pivot points for military members. Um, but if you're military members. Um, but if you're military members. Um, but if you're somebody at the beginning of that somebody at the beginning of that somebody at the beginning of that journey, there is no more beautiful journey, there is no more beautiful journey, there is no more beautiful place to find that community. Um, again,

46:14 place to find that community. Um, again, place to find that community. Um, again, in just all aspects of your life and in just all aspects of your life and in just all aspects of your life and know what that could feel like so you know what that could feel like so you know what that could feel like so you can build it on the outside than a life can build it on the outside than a life can build it on the outside than a life of military service of military service of military service >> with for the, you know, take every tough >> with for the, you know, take every tough >> with for the, you know, take every tough element of it that makes you tougher.

46:25 element of it that makes you tougher. element of it that makes you tougher. Um, man, the the connection to people Um, man, the the connection to people Um, man, the the connection to people over the years, it's priceless. It makes over the years, it's priceless. It makes over the years, it's priceless. It makes us who we are. It's pretty special when us who we are. It's pretty special when us who we are. It's pretty special when you do take the time. I encourage you do take the time. I encourage you do take the time. I encourage anybody just one little story a day. anybody just one little story a day. anybody just one little story a day. When I was unpacking my house and

46:37 When I was unpacking my house and When I was unpacking my house and pulling up all these little things, pulling up all these little things, pulling up all these little things, taking the time to reflect on those taking the time to reflect on those taking the time to reflect on those stories instead of just dwell on the stories instead of just dwell on the stories instead of just dwell on the tougher bits, it it'll shift your tougher bits, it it'll shift your tougher bits, it it'll shift your mindset. mindset. mindset. >> Well, Ang, as we get to wrap up here, >> Well, Ang, as we get to wrap up here, >> Well, Ang, as we get to wrap up here, >> um

46:51 >> um >> um I try to get our youth to understand I try to get our youth to understand I try to get our youth to understand we're in a society now where everybody we're in a society now where everybody we're in a society now where everybody just wants to be comfortable. Like you just wants to be comfortable. Like you just wants to be comfortable. Like you talked about getting ready for talked about getting ready for talked about getting ready for retirement. There's cultures cultures retirement. There's cultures cultures retirement. There's cultures cultures where you said nobody retires. You just where you said nobody retires. You just

47:02 where you said nobody retires. You just work until the end the end of life. work until the end the end of life. work until the end the end of life. >> Now we're in this world where we're >> Now we're in this world where we're >> Now we're in this world where we're always seeking comfort, pleasure, luxury always seeking comfort, pleasure, luxury always seeking comfort, pleasure, luxury items. items. items. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I have come to the realization >> And I have come to the realization >> And I have come to the realization that the struggles in getting out of our that the struggles in getting out of our that the struggles in getting out of our comfort zones. comfort zones. comfort zones. >> The military is continuously challenging >> The military is continuously challenging

47:21 >> The military is continuously challenging you. Great, you made a promotion. you. Great, you made a promotion. you. Great, you made a promotion. >> Now we have more responsibilities for >> Now we have more responsibilities for >> Now we have more responsibilities for you. Uh we notice you're weak in this, you. Uh we notice you're weak in this, you. Uh we notice you're weak in this, so we're going to go send you to that so we're going to go send you to that so we're going to go send you to that assignment to get you stronger in those assignment to get you stronger in those assignment to get you stronger in those skill sets. constant endless challenges.

47:32 skill sets. constant endless challenges. skill sets. constant endless challenges. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. >> So, as we wrap up here, what what do you >> So, as we wrap up here, what what do you >> So, as we wrap up here, what what do you recommend or what are you trying to do recommend or what are you trying to do recommend or what are you trying to do to help our youth understand the to help our youth understand the to help our youth understand the importance of service? importance of service? importance of service? >> Yeah. I think I mean, you bring up two >> Yeah. I think I mean, you bring up two >> Yeah. I think I mean, you bring up two points and I think it's youth and it's

47:46 points and I think it's youth and it's points and I think it's youth and it's everybody. It's that importance of everybody. It's that importance of everybody. It's that importance of service and it's that importance of of service and it's that importance of of service and it's that importance of of continually continually continually understanding and feeling and testing understanding and feeling and testing understanding and feeling and testing the boundaries of your own comfort zone the boundaries of your own comfort zone the boundaries of your own comfort zone in life, whatever life you live. And in life, whatever life you live. And in life, whatever life you live. And there's extensive research out there

48:00 What She Wants Other Military Mothers to Know

48:00 there's extensive research out there there's extensive research out there that getting stuck inside your comfort that getting stuck inside your comfort that getting stuck inside your comfort zone. I mean, it's the place where all zone. I mean, it's the place where all zone. I mean, it's the place where all growth and goodness kind of dies and and growth and goodness kind of dies and and growth and goodness kind of dies and and you lose that spark and and you know, you lose that spark and and you know, you lose that spark and and you know, you're not living life to its fullest. you're not living life to its fullest. you're not living life to its fullest. And that means different things to

48:12 And that means different things to And that means different things to different people. Military service is an different people. Military service is an different people. Military service is an incredible thing because it's going to incredible thing because it's going to incredible thing because it's going to put you in challenging places and the put you in challenging places and the put you in challenging places and the second you get comfortable, we're going second you get comfortable, we're going second you get comfortable, we're going to shake something up where the world is to shake something up where the world is to shake something up where the world is and you're going to you're going to just

48:22 and you're going to you're going to just and you're going to you're going to just naturally have those opportunities. And naturally have those opportunities. And naturally have those opportunities. And I think finding them in whatever part of I think finding them in whatever part of I think finding them in whatever part of your life allows you to grow and test your life allows you to grow and test your life allows you to grow and test your boundaries and make you feel like your boundaries and make you feel like your boundaries and make you feel like you're growing as a person. Um, for me, you're growing as a person. Um, for me, you're growing as a person. Um, for me, physical um, you know, physical fitness

48:37 physical um, you know, physical fitness physical um, you know, physical fitness was always a part of who I was. I didn't was always a part of who I was. I didn't was always a part of who I was. I didn't quite realize it was my coping quite realize it was my coping quite realize it was my coping mechanism. Whether I was going for a run mechanism. Whether I was going for a run mechanism. Whether I was going for a run when I hurt my back and I suddenly when I hurt my back and I suddenly when I hurt my back and I suddenly couldn't, that was a really hard turning couldn't, that was a really hard turning couldn't, that was a really hard turning point for me. And over the years,

48:49 point for me. And over the years, point for me. And over the years, figuring out how to build back in that figuring out how to build back in that figuring out how to build back in that physical challenge and pushing my physical challenge and pushing my physical challenge and pushing my comfort zone. I may never run a marathon comfort zone. I may never run a marathon comfort zone. I may never run a marathon again, but I can do a Spartan race where again, but I can do a Spartan race where again, but I can do a Spartan race where I get to take breaks, shake it off, and I get to take breaks, shake it off, and I get to take breaks, shake it off, and you know, different modify my activities

48:59 you know, different modify my activities you know, different modify my activities through a lot of physical therapy and through a lot of physical therapy and through a lot of physical therapy and pushing myself beyond my comfort zone in pushing myself beyond my comfort zone in pushing myself beyond my comfort zone in that um to me is symbolic for all of the that um to me is symbolic for all of the that um to me is symbolic for all of the things we do in work. And the more things we do in work. And the more things we do in work. And the more comfortable I've been in life, the more comfortable I've been in life, the more comfortable I've been in life, the more dissatisfied I've been um and the more

49:13 dissatisfied I've been um and the more dissatisfied I've been um and the more stuck you feel, at least for me. And it stuck you feel, at least for me. And it stuck you feel, at least for me. And it doesn't have to look like I think the doesn't have to look like I think the doesn't have to look like I think the picture for that especially in the US is picture for that especially in the US is picture for that especially in the US is like this burnout culture where you just like this burnout culture where you just like this burnout culture where you just run really hard at something and people run really hard at something and people run really hard at something and people are pushing and you just never stop.

49:27 are pushing and you just never stop. are pushing and you just never stop. That's not always challenging yourself. That's not always challenging yourself. That's not always challenging yourself. That's just keeping those gears grinding That's just keeping those gears grinding That's just keeping those gears grinding to a point of extreme and it's a recipe to a point of extreme and it's a recipe to a point of extreme and it's a recipe for burnout. How do you do it in a way for burnout. How do you do it in a way for burnout. How do you do it in a way that you know how to push yourself that you know how to push yourself that you know how to push yourself really hard and recover and then step

49:38 really hard and recover and then step really hard and recover and then step back in and learn from it and try again back in and learn from it and try again back in and learn from it and try again or do something different? Um, I think or do something different? Um, I think or do something different? Um, I think our definition of that isn't always our definition of that isn't always our definition of that isn't always healthy. There's I mean there's so many healthy. There's I mean there's so many healthy. There's I mean there's so many amazing books and things out there amazing books and things out there amazing books and things out there showing us how to do it differently and

49:51 showing us how to do it differently and showing us how to do it differently and also to take care of ourselves and be also to take care of ourselves and be also to take care of ourselves and be mindful of um the recovery that's mindful of um the recovery that's mindful of um the recovery that's required when you are pushing yourself required when you are pushing yourself required when you are pushing yourself outside those comfort zones and taking outside those comfort zones and taking outside those comfort zones and taking the time to learn from the times you the time to learn from the times you the time to learn from the times you fail outside your comfort zone and step

50:03 fail outside your comfort zone and step fail outside your comfort zone and step back and figure out what you're what back and figure out what you're what back and figure out what you're what steps you're going to take next. Um I steps you're going to take next. Um I steps you're going to take next. Um I mean that's life wherever you find it. mean that's life wherever you find it. mean that's life wherever you find it. um and a career of service. Again, it it um and a career of service. Again, it it um and a career of service. Again, it it taught me what that felt like and and taught me what that felt like and and taught me what that felt like and and how to find it in those different arenas

50:14 how to find it in those different arenas how to find it in those different arenas in life, but also how to keep yourself in life, but also how to keep yourself in life, but also how to keep yourself at the center of it and your values at at the center of it and your values at at the center of it and your values at the center of it. And that looks the center of it. And that looks the center of it. And that looks different for everybody. And only you different for everybody. And only you different for everybody. And only you can, you know, only you can say if can, you know, only you can say if can, you know, only you can say if you're outside of that or not and

50:27 you're outside of that or not and you're outside of that or not and continuing to strive to live life to its continuing to strive to live life to its continuing to strive to live life to its fullest. You know, it's a it's a fullest. You know, it's a it's a fullest. You know, it's a it's a beautiful life. And if we only get one beautiful life. And if we only get one beautiful life. And if we only get one of them, might as well be pushing of them, might as well be pushing of them, might as well be pushing yourself to experience it in whatever yourself to experience it in whatever yourself to experience it in whatever ways life draws you, you know.

50:41 ways life draws you, you know. ways life draws you, you know. >> Thank you, Ang. I really appreciate it >> Thank you, Ang. I really appreciate it >> Thank you, Ang. I really appreciate it and I look forward to continuing to and I look forward to continuing to and I look forward to continuing to collaborate because I know you're doing collaborate because I know you're doing collaborate because I know you're doing great things with the Bush Institute and great things with the Bush Institute and great things with the Bush Institute and with um Victory Strategies and I look with um Victory Strategies and I look with um Victory Strategies and I look forward to working with you in the

50:51 forward to working with you in the forward to working with you in the future. future. future. >> Yeah, you too. I appreciate it. >> Yeah, you too. I appreciate it. >> Yeah, you too. I appreciate it. >> Absolutely.