The Dragon of Afghanistan — An Apache Pilot's Story

Full transcript

28,514 words · 53:20 runtime

00:00 Introduction — Queens to West Point

0:02 Hey folks, welcome to today's episode. I Hey folks, welcome to today's episode. I am thrilled to introduce our special am thrilled to introduce our special am thrilled to introduce our special guest, Gerald Gangaram, a retired US guest, Gerald Gangaram, a retired US guest, Gerald Gangaram, a retired US Army major and decorated Apache Army major and decorated Apache Army major and decorated Apache helicopter pilot whose journey is helicopter pilot whose journey is helicopter pilot whose journey is nothing short of inspiring. nothing short of inspiring. nothing short of inspiring. Raised by a single mother in Queens, New Raised by a single mother in Queens, New

0:16 Raised by a single mother in Queens, New York, Gerald defied expectations and York, Gerald defied expectations and York, Gerald defied expectations and rose to become what enemies call the rose to become what enemies call the rose to become what enemies call the dragon during Operation Enduring Freedom dragon during Operation Enduring Freedom dragon during Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan. in Afghanistan. in Afghanistan. Gerald is a 2007 West Point graduate. He Gerald is a 2007 West Point graduate. He Gerald is a 2007 West Point graduate. He commanded the world's largest attack commanded the world's largest attack commanded the world's largest attack helicopter company and earned numerous

0:33 helicopter company and earned numerous helicopter company and earned numerous accolades, including the meritorious accolades, including the meritorious accolades, including the meritorious service medal and the Army Accommodation service medal and the Army Accommodation service medal and the Army Accommodation Medal with valor. But Gerald's story Medal with valor. But Gerald's story Medal with valor. But Gerald's story goes far beyond military achievements. goes far beyond military achievements. goes far beyond military achievements. After suffering a traumatic brain injury After suffering a traumatic brain injury After suffering a traumatic brain injury and navigating some dark periods, he

0:46 and navigating some dark periods, he and navigating some dark periods, he transformed these challenges into a transformed these challenges into a transformed these challenges into a philosophy of forging forward that now philosophy of forging forward that now philosophy of forging forward that now guides his civilian life. Today, as vice guides his civilian life. Today, as vice guides his civilian life. Today, as vice president of civil leadership president of civil leadership president of civil leadership development at the Bill of Rights development at the Bill of Rights development at the Bill of Rights Institute, Gerald continues his Institute, Gerald continues his

0:59 Institute, Gerald continues his commitment to service through commitment to service through commitment to service through educational initiatives and leadership educational initiatives and leadership educational initiatives and leadership development. Whether you're interested development. Whether you're interested development. Whether you're interested in military aviation, leadership in military aviation, leadership in military aviation, leadership philosophy, or personal resilience, philosophy, or personal resilience, philosophy, or personal resilience, Gerald's unique perspective as someone Gerald's unique perspective as someone Gerald's unique perspective as someone who went from challenging childhood to

1:14 who went from challenging childhood to who went from challenging childhood to the Pentagon strategic planning office the Pentagon strategic planning office the Pentagon strategic planning office offers valuable insights for us all. offers valuable insights for us all. offers valuable insights for us all. Gerald, thank you for joining us today. Gerald, thank you for joining us today. Gerald, thank you for joining us today. We are eager to hear your story. We are eager to hear your story. We are eager to hear your story. Thanks, Mike, and so happy to be here Thanks, Mike, and so happy to be here Thanks, Mike, and so happy to be here with you. with you. with you. Yes, sir. So, let me start off with the

1:31 Yes, sir. So, let me start off with the Yes, sir. So, let me start off with the first question here for you. first question here for you. first question here for you. Growing up in Queens with with a single Growing up in Queens with with a single Growing up in Queens with with a single mother, many didn't expect you to mother, many didn't expect you to mother, many didn't expect you to succeed. Can you walk us through your succeed. Can you walk us through your succeed. Can you walk us through your journey from skeptical beginnings to journey from skeptical beginnings to journey from skeptical beginnings to becoming an Apache helicopter pilot in becoming an Apache helicopter pilot in becoming an Apache helicopter pilot in the US Army? the US Army? the US Army? That's it's interesting that you uh you That's it's interesting that you uh you That's it's interesting that you uh you focused on that part in particular, but

1:50 focused on that part in particular, but focused on that part in particular, but you know that skepticism was across the you know that skepticism was across the you know that skepticism was across the board. Um it came from well I grew up board. Um it came from well I grew up board. Um it came from well I grew up around teachers even my biological around teachers even my biological around teachers even my biological fathers where I grew up in New York City fathers where I grew up in New York City fathers where I grew up in New York City and Queens. The zip code I lived in was and Queens. The zip code I lived in was and Queens. The zip code I lived in was one digit away from Riker's Island. And

2:09 one digit away from Riker's Island. And one digit away from Riker's Island. And so if you didn't do something right, it so if you didn't do something right, it so if you didn't do something right, it was always you're going to Riker. was always you're going to Riker. was always you're going to Riker. whether it was, hey, you didn't do good whether it was, hey, you didn't do good whether it was, hey, you didn't do good on this test, you're going to Rikers. on this test, you're going to Rikers. on this test, you're going to Rikers. You weren't fast enough for this game of You weren't fast enough for this game of You weren't fast enough for this game of tag, you're going to Rikers. And and

2:21 tag, you're going to Rikers. And and tag, you're going to Rikers. And and even at that point when very early on, even at that point when very early on, even at that point when very early on, too young for me to even remember, when too young for me to even remember, when too young for me to even remember, when my biological father had left my mother, my biological father had left my mother, my biological father had left my mother, he actually told her that, you know, he actually told her that, you know, he actually told her that, you know, he's not going to amount to anything cuz he's not going to amount to anything cuz he's not going to amount to anything cuz he's with you. He was referring to facts

2:37 he's with you. He was referring to facts he's with you. He was referring to facts that, you know, she didn't even have a that, you know, she didn't even have a that, you know, she didn't even have a high school education in in a classic high school education in in a classic high school education in in a classic sense. Um but obviously he was wrong sense. Um but obviously he was wrong sense. Um but obviously he was wrong because it was I learned more about because it was I learned more about because it was I learned more about leadership and resilience and grit leadership and resilience and grit leadership and resilience and grit determination values uh from my mom than

2:54 determination values uh from my mom than determination values uh from my mom than I did any other leader that I'm supposed I did any other leader that I'm supposed I did any other leader that I'm supposed to. to. to. [Music] Boy, you know, my mom um she did not get Boy, you know, my mom um she did not get her four-year degree either. She had a a her four-year degree either. She had a a her four-year degree either. She had a a two-year degree. Um and so she became two-year degree. Um and so she became two-year degree. Um and so she became she became a nurse and a phabotamist for she became a nurse and a phabotamist for she became a nurse and a phabotamist for years. And you know, in the back of her

3:11 years. And you know, in the back of her years. And you know, in the back of her mind, I think she was always, you know, mind, I think she was always, you know, mind, I think she was always, you know, thinking she was less than, but she had thinking she was less than, but she had thinking she was less than, but she had a heart of gold. You know, the standard a heart of gold. You know, the standard a heart of gold. You know, the standard uh shirt off your back kind of person. uh shirt off your back kind of person. uh shirt off your back kind of person. And it sounds like your mom was similar And it sounds like your mom was similar And it sounds like your mom was similar in that capacity.

3:24 in that capacity. in that capacity. Oh, without a doubt. Right. My mom had Oh, without a doubt. Right. My mom had Oh, without a doubt. Right. My mom had to do things that no woman should have to do things that no woman should have to do things that no woman should have to do to make sure that she would just to do to make sure that she would just to do to make sure that she would just provide the basic things that we did so provide the basic things that we did so provide the basic things that we did so easily take for granted and things that easily take for granted and things that easily take for granted and things that put me if it wasn't for all the put me if it wasn't for all the

3:42 put me if it wasn't for all the sacrifices my mom gave I wouldn't be sacrifices my mom gave I wouldn't be sacrifices my mom gave I wouldn't be where I am today especially and I I use where I am today especially and I I use where I am today especially and I I use that word sacrifice because I think so that word sacrifice because I think so that word sacrifice because I think so much about servant leadership right like much about servant leadership right like much about servant leadership right like we know the classic definition of we know the classic definition of we know the classic definition of leadership whenever I think about leadership whenever I think about

3:55 leadership whenever I think about servant leadership that's what my on servant leadership that's what my on servant leadership that's what my on top. We have certain leaders that can be top. We have certain leaders that can be top. We have certain leaders that can be out there that yes, you can possibly do out there that yes, you can possibly do out there that yes, you can possibly do things that you're trying to elevate things that you're trying to elevate things that you're trying to elevate yourself, your stature, you're looking yourself, your stature, you're looking yourself, your stature, you're looking for that next rung on the ladder, but a for that next rung on the ladder, but a

4:08 for that next rung on the ladder, but a true servant leader is just like my mom true servant leader is just like my mom true servant leader is just like my mom was. It was what can I do to put you on was. It was what can I do to put you on was. It was what can I do to put you on my back and make sure that your life is my back and make sure that your life is my back and make sure that your life is I think that's the call for a lot of I think that's the call for a lot of I think that's the call for a lot of parents, right? And and I remind people parents, right? And and I remind people parents, right? And and I remind people that whether you're in your community, that whether you're in your community,

4:21 that whether you're in your community, whether it's your church, your family, whether it's your church, your family, whether it's your church, your family, you're definitely able to be a leader to you're definitely able to be a leader to you're definitely able to be a leader to someone. You're someone that you have someone. You're someone that you have someone. You're someone that you have their ear and you're getting advice, their ear and you're getting advice, their ear and you're getting advice, counseling, and stuff. And uh we all can counseling, and stuff. And uh we all can counseling, and stuff. And uh we all can use that more servant leaders. use that more servant leaders.

4:36 use that more servant leaders. You mentioned servant leaderships. I You mentioned servant leaderships. I You mentioned servant leaderships. I also think about success and your also think about success and your also think about success and your metaphor for success is quite unique. metaphor for success is quite unique. metaphor for success is quite unique. Your definition is comparing success to Your definition is comparing success to Your definition is comparing success to a washer and dryer. Could you elaborate a washer and dryer. Could you elaborate a washer and dryer. Could you elaborate to our listeners of how you shaped your to our listeners of how you shaped your

4:50 to our listeners of how you shaped your perspective throughout your military perspective throughout your military perspective throughout your military career with this this washer and dryer career with this this washer and dryer career with this this washer and dryer narrative? narrative? narrative? Yeah, Mike. Um, so as as was previously Yeah, Mike. Um, so as as was previously Yeah, Mike. Um, so as as was previously mentioned, I didn't grow up in the same mentioned, I didn't grow up in the same mentioned, I didn't grow up in the same soio economic status I'm in now. And so soio economic status I'm in now. And so soio economic status I'm in now. And so after I even when I go to West Point,

5:08 after I even when I go to West Point, after I even when I go to West Point, the only reason I really got in was I the only reason I really got in was I the only reason I really got in was I had this mentor that did take an had this mentor that did take an had this mentor that did take an interest in me. I had three mentors interest in me. I had three mentors interest in me. I had three mentors while I was in high school. Uh I was in while I was in high school. Uh I was in while I was in high school. Uh I was in a Jerry C program and it was uh S first a Jerry C program and it was uh S first a Jerry C program and it was uh S first class bass Sergeant Bedilla and a first

5:22 class bass Sergeant Bedilla and a first class bass Sergeant Bedilla and a first sergeant go first sergeant comes up to sergeant go first sergeant comes up to sergeant go first sergeant comes up to me one day he's like oh what are you me one day he's like oh what are you me one day he's like oh what are you doing for college and I kind of laughed doing for college and I kind of laughed doing for college and I kind of laughed at him and I said first sergeant I can't at him and I said first sergeant I can't at him and I said first sergeant I can't afford to apply to college let alone go afford to apply to college let alone go afford to apply to college let alone go to college so I don't know what you're

5:34 to college so I don't know what you're to college so I don't know what you're talking about he told me about one talking about he told me about one talking about he told me about one school that didn't have an application school that didn't have an application school that didn't have an application fee that was West Point and that's how fee that was West Point and that's how fee that was West Point and that's how my path there really went and I still my path there really went and I still my path there really went and I still remember it to this day because he even remember it to this day because he even remember it to this day because he even gave me the money for Postit

5:46 gave me the money for Postit gave me the money for Postit And that was it. It blew my mind in that And that was it. It blew my mind in that And that was it. It blew my mind in that way that someone like this would take an way that someone like this would take an way that someone like this would take an interest in me. But I went to West interest in me. But I went to West interest in me. But I went to West Point, graduated thankfully, became an Point, graduated thankfully, became an Point, graduated thankfully, became an aviation officer, and then I went to aviation officer, and then I went to aviation officer, and then I went to live in uh go to flight school and I had

5:58 live in uh go to flight school and I had live in uh go to flight school and I had to find a place to live. And so I would to find a place to live. And so I would to find a place to live. And so I would tell everyone actually, Mike, that I was

06:00 Growing Up Without a Safety Net

6:03 tell everyone actually, Mike, that I was tell everyone actually, Mike, that I was going to LA, lower Alabama. I didn't going to LA, lower Alabama. I didn't going to LA, lower Alabama. I didn't want them to think any stereotypical want them to think any stereotypical want them to think any stereotypical thing of, oh, the New York City guy is thing of, oh, the New York City guy is thing of, oh, the New York City guy is not going to not going to not going to the middle of nowhere in my mind, right? the middle of nowhere in my mind, right? the middle of nowhere in my mind, right? And I I I had really been in a lot of And I I I had really been in a lot of

6:15 And I I I had really been in a lot of other parts of the country and so it was other parts of the country and so it was other parts of the country and so it was a culture shock for me in different ways a culture shock for me in different ways a culture shock for me in different ways is what I was expecting but in reality is what I was expecting but in reality is what I was expecting but in reality not really. And I I get there but I not really. And I I get there but I not really. And I I get there but I fight a roommate that I knew at West fight a roommate that I knew at West fight a roommate that I knew at West Point and we get a townhouse in lower

6:27 Point and we get a townhouse in lower Point and we get a townhouse in lower Alabama. And I actually thought at that Alabama. And I actually thought at that Alabama. And I actually thought at that point in my life I I was like no I'm I'm point in my life I I was like no I'm I'm point in my life I I was like no I'm I'm a man cuz this place had amenities. This a man cuz this place had amenities. This a man cuz this place had amenities. This had and I'm talking about central air had and I'm talking about central air had and I'm talking about central air conditioning. I mean even West Point conditioning. I mean even West Point conditioning. I mean even West Point have central air conditions only. All

6:41 have central air conditions only. All have central air conditions only. All right. You know, I'm not starting off right. You know, I'm not starting off right. You know, I'm not starting off the projects. I'm not starting off the the projects. I'm not starting off the the projects. I'm not starting off the apartment. This is great. I'm in a apartment. This is great. I'm in a apartment. This is great. I'm in a house. Yes, a townhouse in Little house. Yes, a townhouse in Little house. Yes, a townhouse in Little Alabama with a roommate. But I was past Alabama with a roommate. But I was past Alabama with a roommate. But I was past all the fine print. I did whatever

6:54 all the fine print. I did whatever all the fine print. I did whatever man at that point in their life is when man at that point in their life is when man at that point in their life is when they're really proud. I called my mom they're really proud. I called my mom they're really proud. I called my mom and and she was excited. Actually, she and and she was excited. Actually, she and and she was excited. Actually, she was so excited. She drove from New York was so excited. She drove from New York was so excited. She drove from New York City down to or Alabama to see this City down to or Alabama to see this City down to or Alabama to see this townhouse with my roommate. And you know

7:08 townhouse with my roommate. And you know townhouse with my roommate. And you know what? She got there after over 18 hours. what? She got there after over 18 hours. what? She got there after over 18 hours. take grand tour and like she was she was take grand tour and like she was she was take grand tour and like she was she was happy and she was proud. But then as we happy and she was proud. But then as we happy and she was proud. But then as we get out she notices there's a ridge she get out she notices there's a ridge she get out she notices there's a ridge she hadn't gone into yet. Right as we're hadn't gone into yet. Right as we're hadn't gone into yet. Right as we're getting towards the door she opens it

7:21 getting towards the door she opens it getting towards the door she opens it up, sees the washer in the dryer. up, sees the washer in the dryer. up, sees the washer in the dryer. Like my mom got very emotional at this. Like my mom got very emotional at this. Like my mom got very emotional at this. Grabs me. She says, "Boy, made it. Made Grabs me. She says, "Boy, made it. Made Grabs me. She says, "Boy, made it. Made it boy." it boy." it boy." I may or may not have got emotional at I may or may not have got emotional at I may or may not have got emotional at the same time if you ask my roommate. He the same time if you ask my roommate. He the same time if you ask my roommate. He was probably very confused. But what was was probably very confused. But what was was probably very confused. But what was going on at that point is I realized my

7:42 going on at that point is I realized my going on at that point is I realized my mom still didn't have a washer and a mom still didn't have a washer and a mom still didn't have a washer and a dryer for life. The washer and and I dryer for life. The washer and and I dryer for life. The washer and and I thought that was so important for me to thought that was so important for me to thought that was so important for me to recognize. I hadn't yet become that recognize. I hadn't yet become that recognize. I hadn't yet become that Apache pilot. I hadn't yet commanded. I Apache pilot. I hadn't yet commanded. I Apache pilot. I hadn't yet commanded. I hadn't yet strategist got my masters.

8:01 hadn't yet strategist got my masters. hadn't yet strategist got my masters. None of that. But it didn't matter to my None of that. But it didn't matter to my None of that. But it didn't matter to my my mom reminded me that I already had my mom reminded me that I already had my mom reminded me that I already had achieved success just by virtue of that achieved success just by virtue of that achieved success just by virtue of that one act that I I had achieved. And I I one act that I I had achieved. And I I one act that I I had achieved. And I I decided I needed to really carry that decided I needed to really carry that decided I needed to really carry that with me because as leaders, it's so easy

8:18 with me because as leaders, it's so easy with me because as leaders, it's so easy to get to another rung on the ladder as to get to another rung on the ladder as to get to another rung on the ladder as you go through life and you keep you go through life and you keep you go through life and you keep reaching for another thing and success. reaching for another thing and success. reaching for another thing and success. And that's good. You should keep moving And that's good. You should keep moving And that's good. You should keep moving the goalpost, but you should also make the goalpost, but you should also make the goalpost, but you should also make sure to celebrate all those victories

8:30 sure to celebrate all those victories sure to celebrate all those victories cuz every one of us has had success in cuz every one of us has had success in cuz every one of us has had success in our life. I don't care if it was our life. I don't care if it was our life. I don't care if it was learning to tie your shoes, asking learning to tie your shoes, asking learning to tie your shoes, asking someone out on a date, doing well on a someone out on a date, doing well on a someone out on a date, doing well on a test, job you finally wanted, you name test, job you finally wanted, you name test, job you finally wanted, you name it. And there's been some measures of

8:43 it. And there's been some measures of it. And there's been some measures of success in your life. And we just have success in your life. And we just have success in your life. And we just have to remember that as we really go into to remember that as we really go into to remember that as we really go into times that maybe it's not so clear what times that maybe it's not so clear what times that maybe it's not so clear what those who successes are. And it's it's those who successes are. And it's it's those who successes are. And it's it's doesn't mean that you're a failure. It doesn't mean that you're a failure. It doesn't mean that you're a failure. It just means that maybe today's not a

8:54 just means that maybe today's not a just means that maybe today's not a successful day, right? successful day, right? successful day, right? Brother, I love that story because we Brother, I love that story because we Brother, I love that story because we are always seeking that that next thing are always seeking that that next thing are always seeking that that next thing to validate ourselves as a young to validate ourselves as a young to validate ourselves as a young captain. Okay, how many years do I have captain. Okay, how many years do I have captain. Okay, how many years do I have to be a captain before I can become a to be a captain before I can become a

9:07 to be a captain before I can become a major? Okay, I've made major and you major? Okay, I've made major and you major? Okay, I've made major and you know, if I want to be a commander in the know, if I want to be a commander in the know, if I want to be a commander in the Air Force, I got to be a lieutenant Air Force, I got to be a lieutenant Air Force, I got to be a lieutenant colonel. Okay, well, I need to rank this colonel. Okay, well, I need to rank this colonel. Okay, well, I need to rank this this or that on my performance report this or that on my performance report this or that on my performance report and I have to do this level of fitness and I have to do this level of fitness

9:17 and I have to do this level of fitness test otherwise I'm somehow a failure in test otherwise I'm somehow a failure in test otherwise I'm somehow a failure in my own mind. And so it's not it's so my own mind. And so it's not it's so my own mind. And so it's not it's so nice to hear your mom bring you back to nice to hear your mom bring you back to nice to hear your mom bring you back to what success is um is defined in her what success is um is defined in her what success is um is defined in her capacity. A lot of folks that are capacity. A lot of folks that are capacity. A lot of folks that are listeners, you know, they've perhaps listeners, you know, they've perhaps

9:32 listeners, you know, they've perhaps never been to New York City or these never been to New York City or these never been to New York City or these large cities where a lot of folks are large cities where a lot of folks are large cities where a lot of folks are going to the laundromat. So you have to going to the laundromat. So you have to going to the laundromat. So you have to be pretty wealthy to have those types of be pretty wealthy to have those types of be pretty wealthy to have those types of things in your apartment complex in New things in your apartment complex in New things in your apartment complex in New York City. So good for your mom to keep

9:45 York City. So good for your mom to keep York City. So good for your mom to keep you grounded and allow you to measure you grounded and allow you to measure you grounded and allow you to measure success in a different capacity. Oh, I'm success in a different capacity. Oh, I'm success in a different capacity. Oh, I'm I'm so grateful for the lesson. I'm so grateful for the lesson. I'm so grateful for the lesson. Yeah. Well, you know, you me you Yeah. Well, you know, you me you Yeah. Well, you know, you me you mentioned the West Point and I don't mentioned the West Point and I don't mentioned the West Point and I don't want to gloss over your experience there

9:59 want to gloss over your experience there want to gloss over your experience there because you said, "Hey, I've never even because you said, "Hey, I've never even because you said, "Hey, I've never even considered myself considered myself considered myself worthy of going to college. You worthy of going to college. You worthy of going to college. You obviously were a pretty sharp student obviously were a pretty sharp student obviously were a pretty sharp student because our servicemies are unbelievably because our servicemies are unbelievably because our servicemies are unbelievably competitive. The folks that follow the competitive. The folks that follow the

10:14 competitive. The folks that follow the US news reports of all the rankings of US news reports of all the rankings of US news reports of all the rankings of the schools, our servicemies tend to be the schools, our servicemies tend to be the schools, our servicemies tend to be in that top 20 year after year. So, you in that top 20 year after year. So, you in that top 20 year after year. So, you must have been a pretty sharp student. must have been a pretty sharp student. must have been a pretty sharp student. What What did you What did he see in you What What did you What did he see in you What What did you What did he see in you or what were you specializing in that um

10:28 or what were you specializing in that um or what were you specializing in that um would allow you to even go to the would allow you to even go to the would allow you to even go to the service academy cuz you have to get service academy cuz you have to get service academy cuz you have to get congressional um sponsorship. Who was congressional um sponsorship. Who was congressional um sponsorship. Who was your sponsor to get you into the your sponsor to get you into the your sponsor to get you into the academy? academy? academy? You know, my sponsor actually was uh You know, my sponsor actually was uh You know, my sponsor actually was uh President Bush. So, President Bush, I

10:43 President Bush. So, President Bush, I President Bush. So, President Bush, I didn't even realize that presidents didn't even realize that presidents didn't even realize that presidents could could uh have appointments. I could could uh have appointments. I could could uh have appointments. I thought it was always the Senate, the thought it was always the Senate, the thought it was always the Senate, the Congress, you know. I didn't either. Um Congress, you know. I didn't either. Um Congress, you know. I didn't either. Um that was one of those things. President that was one of those things. President that was one of those things. President Bush gave me my nomination. I I had also

10:57 Bush gave me my nomination. I I had also Bush gave me my nomination. I I had also applied to Senator Representatives. And applied to Senator Representatives. And applied to Senator Representatives. And it was one of those things for me that it was one of those things for me that it was one of those things for me that looking back on it, I didn't appreciate looking back on it, I didn't appreciate looking back on it, I didn't appreciate that that that [Music] West Point was the hardest school in the West Point was the hardest school in the world to get into that. It was really world to get into that. It was really world to get into that. It was really because of September 11.

11:16 because of September 11. because of September 11. I knew that I wanted to serve. I knew that I wanted to serve. I knew that I wanted to serve. Knew I wanted to go into the military. Knew I wanted to go into the military. Knew I wanted to go into the military. I knew what it meant to be a citizen. I knew what it meant to be a citizen. I knew what it meant to be a citizen. My mom when September 11th happens My mom when September 11th happens My mom when September 11th happens she went out and she got this flag like she went out and she got this flag like she went out and she got this flag like kind of banner on the bottom of it said kind of banner on the bottom of it said

11:37 kind of banner on the bottom of it said America love and she always believed in America love and she always believed in America love and she always believed in those words. She always believed that those words. She always believed that those words. She always believed that so many people wanted to come into this so many people wanted to come into this so many people wanted to come into this country just like she did and they country just like she did and they country just like she did and they wanted to have wanted to have wanted to have opportunity. opportunity. opportunity. America is not perfect, but America is not perfect, but America is not perfect, but we also the constitution that this

12:00 we also the constitution that this we also the constitution that this country is founded on gives us the country is founded on gives us the country is founded on gives us the ability to strive for that perfection to ability to strive for that perfection to ability to strive for that perfection to always improve ourselves. All the always improve ourselves. All the always improve ourselves. All the iterations that we can have to continue iterations that we can have to continue iterations that we can have to continue to model our government, the checks and to model our government, the checks and to model our government, the checks and balances that are in place. And the way

12:13 balances that are in place. And the way balances that are in place. And the way she saw it was any attack on the she saw it was any attack on the she saw it was any attack on the country, we had to rally around each country, we had to rally around each country, we had to rally around each other, our community, and support other, our community, and support other, our community, and support anything that was going on. She did not anything that was going on. She did not anything that was going on. She did not want me to go into the military. Let's want me to go into the military. Let's want me to go into the military. Let's be clear about that. I don't think any

12:25 be clear about that. I don't think any be clear about that. I don't think any mother really does. mother really does. mother really does. But that really drove all my thinking But that really drove all my thinking But that really drove all my thinking about going to the servicemies uh or about going to the servicemies uh or about going to the servicemies uh or going into the military. And when this going into the military. And when this going into the military. And when this mentor told me about the servicemies and mentor told me about the servicemies and mentor told me about the servicemies and saw this inkling of leadership in me, it saw this inkling of leadership in me, it saw this inkling of leadership in me, it really changed things for me. And it it really changed things for me. And it it really changed things for me. And it it reminded me that yeah, it's one thing to

12:46 reminded me that yeah, it's one thing to reminded me that yeah, it's one thing to say, oh, I'm good at singing and I'm say, oh, I'm good at singing and I'm say, oh, I'm good at singing and I'm just singing to the shout. It's another just singing to the shout. It's another just singing to the shout. It's another thing when other people tell you, hey, thing when other people tell you, hey, thing when other people tell you, hey, you know, you have this gift and you you know, you have this gift and you you know, you have this gift and you should use it. And that's what should use it. And that's what should use it. And that's what leadership was for me. And it was those

12:55 leadership was for me. And it was those leadership was for me. And it was those teachers that took that interest in me teachers that took that interest in me teachers that took that interest in me that didn't see it as, yeah, you're

13:00 West Point and the Making of a Pilot

13:00 that didn't see it as, yeah, you're that didn't see it as, yeah, you're going to prison, just do what you're going to prison, just do what you're going to prison, just do what you're doing. Uh, they really invested in me doing. Uh, they really invested in me doing. Uh, they really invested in me and I'm very thankful for them. What and I'm very thankful for them. What and I'm very thankful for them. What grade were you in when 911 happened? grade were you in when 911 happened? grade were you in when 911 happened? I was a It was in 2001. I was I was a It was in 2001. I was I was a It was in 2001. I was a sophomore. You're a sophomore in high a sophomore. You're a sophomore in high a sophomore. You're a sophomore in high school being in Queens, New York. What school being in Queens, New York. What school being in Queens, New York. What was what was what was the reaction? Can

13:22 was what was what was the reaction? Can was what was what was the reaction? Can you describe what the city was like you describe what the city was like you describe what the city was like while this was happening in those while this was happening in those while this was happening in those immediate 72 hours afterwards, uncertainty, uncertainty, um disbelief. um disbelief. um disbelief. It was everyone was wondering where It was everyone was wondering where It was everyone was wondering where people were. people were. people were. the the towers had are communications the the towers had are communications the the towers had are communications for cell phones and and that structure

13:49 for cell phones and and that structure for cell phones and and that structure as well. Not like everyone had a cell as well. Not like everyone had a cell as well. Not like everyone had a cell phone like they could even now. Phones phone like they could even now. Phones phone like they could even now. Phones were working in certain areas, but lines were working in certain areas, but lines were working in certain areas, but lines were incredibly long. They had shut down were incredibly long. They had shut down were incredibly long. They had shut down the subways and everything. So in in our the subways and everything. So in in our the subways and everything. So in in our case, people that we knew that were

14:02 case, people that we knew that were case, people that we knew that were coming coming coming back had to walk back from wherever they back had to walk back from wherever they back had to walk back from wherever they were in the city. Anyone that was were in the city. Anyone that was were in the city. Anyone that was working around area had to walk back working around area had to walk back working around area had to walk back across the bridges. traffic was only across the bridges. traffic was only across the bridges. traffic was only going like with military vehicles and going like with military vehicles and going like with military vehicles and emergency vehicles into the city or or

14:18 emergency vehicles into the city or or emergency vehicles into the city or or even out of the city. Nothing was really even out of the city. Nothing was really even out of the city. Nothing was really going out. Things were just going in um going out. Things were just going in um going out. Things were just going in um whatever resources they needed. And it whatever resources they needed. And it whatever resources they needed. And it was just was just was just what was going to happen, what would the what was going to happen, what would the what was going to happen, what would the response be? What is this going to mean response be? What is this going to mean

14:31 response be? What is this going to mean for life in general? I've still to this for life in general? I've still to this for life in general? I've still to this day never seen something that really day never seen something that really day never seen something that really just had everyone glued to whatever TV just had everyone glued to whatever TV just had everyone glued to whatever TV or radio and stuff just trying to get or radio and stuff just trying to get or radio and stuff just trying to get more information, see what was going to more information, see what was going to more information, see what was going to happen, what the next steps were going happen, what the next steps were going

14:46 happen, what the next steps were going to be. But then there was this to be. But then there was this to be. But then there was this overwhelming overwhelming overwhelming you remember Mike, there was this you remember Mike, there was this you remember Mike, there was this overwhelming sense of patriotism about overwhelming sense of patriotism about overwhelming sense of patriotism about like, you know, an attack on one of us like, you know, an attack on one of us like, you know, an attack on one of us like this is an attack on all of us. And like this is an attack on all of us. And like this is an attack on all of us. And that rallying feeling that wasn't

15:01 that rallying feeling that wasn't that rallying feeling that wasn't specific to just a small little town or specific to just a small little town or specific to just a small little town or anything, but was the nation that was anything, but was the nation that was anything, but was the nation that was also inspiring. also inspiring. also inspiring. Specifically remember the Yankees game. Specifically remember the Yankees game. Specifically remember the Yankees game. There was a lot of back and forth about There was a lot of back and forth about There was a lot of back and forth about oh we shouldn't play we we need to oh we shouldn't play we we need to

15:18 oh we shouldn't play we we need to cancel this because I mean they were cancel this because I mean they were cancel this because I mean they were using the field to uh for triaging using the field to uh for triaging using the field to uh for triaging bodies and it was a very traumatic bodies and it was a very traumatic bodies and it was a very traumatic experience of what the field was used experience of what the field was used experience of what the field was used for. But when they actually had that for. But when they actually had that for. But when they actually had that game I feel like it brought the whole game I feel like it brought the whole

15:33 game I feel like it brought the whole country together. I just that baseball country together. I just that baseball country together. I just that baseball game provided just so much pride in me game provided just so much pride in me game provided just so much pride in me when I when I watched them actually play when I when I watched them actually play when I when I watched them actually play recently after the towers fell. You recently after the towers fell. You recently after the towers fell. You know, I think that that is a sentiment know, I think that that is a sentiment know, I think that that is a sentiment that a lot of leaders that are very in that a lot of leaders that are very in

15:52 that a lot of leaders that are very in tune with their communities know when tune with their communities know when tune with their communities know when it's time to I don't want to say move it's time to I don't want to say move it's time to I don't want to say move forward callously but time to forward callously but time to forward callously but time to bring people together not even for a bring people together not even for a bring people together not even for a sense of normaly or things but just to sense of normaly or things but just to sense of normaly or things but just to have people have those victories and have people have those victories and

16:09 have people have those victories and things right it's almost giving those things right it's almost giving those things right it's almost giving those even if it's a small victory and another even if it's a small victory and another even if it's a small victory and another measure of success to show that yeah, measure of success to show that yeah, measure of success to show that yeah, this may have happened. Look, we can this may have happened. Look, we can this may have happened. Look, we can successfully have this one thing happen successfully have this one thing happen successfully have this one thing happen and we can show not that we're and we can show not that we're

16:21 and we can show not that we're forgetting what happened and we're forgetting what happened and we're forgetting what happened and we're dismissing it or anything, but we can do dismissing it or anything, but we can do dismissing it or anything, but we can do multiple things. We can mourn, we can multiple things. We can mourn, we can multiple things. We can mourn, we can rebuild, and we can still forge. rebuild, and we can still forge. rebuild, and we can still forge. So 9/11 really puts a fire in your belly So 9/11 really puts a fire in your belly So 9/11 really puts a fire in your belly and you go to the service academy. How and you go to the service academy. How

16:37 and you go to the service academy. How were you selected to be an Apache were you selected to be an Apache were you selected to be an Apache helicopter pilot? Me being a C7 guy in helicopter pilot? Me being a C7 guy in helicopter pilot? Me being a C7 guy in the Air Force, it was a very competitive the Air Force, it was a very competitive the Air Force, it was a very competitive process. I imagine it's similar in the process. I imagine it's similar in the process. I imagine it's similar in the army. army. army. I mean, brother, it's probably nothing I mean, brother, it's probably nothing I mean, brother, it's probably nothing different from from your journey. What

16:50 different from from your journey. What different from from your journey. What what we did was it's an order of merit what we did was it's an order of merit what we did was it's an order of merit list for everything in the military, list for everything in the military, list for everything in the military, right? So, when we go to the service right? So, when we go to the service right? So, when we go to the service academy, it's an order of merit list. academy, it's an order of merit list. academy, it's an order of merit list. You're getting racked and sacked against You're getting racked and sacked against You're getting racked and sacked against everyone for what your bra is going to

16:59 everyone for what your bra is going to everyone for what your bra is going to be. Then you get to flight school, that be. Then you get to flight school, that be. Then you get to flight school, that order of merit list is white. Then you order of merit list is white. Then you order of merit list is white. Then you start a new one. While you're going start a new one. While you're going start a new one. While you're going through flight school, you have a new through flight school, you have a new through flight school, you have a new order of merilians. And that's in the order of merilians. And that's in the order of merilians. And that's in the end what ended up being whoever was at

17:11 end what ended up being whoever was at end what ended up being whoever was at the top of the class and stuff. As we go the top of the class and stuff. As we go the top of the class and stuff. As we go through, you all get it. Come into a through, you all get it. Come into a through, you all get it. Come into a room at your primary aircraft room at your primary aircraft room at your primary aircraft graduation. They put all the aircraft on graduation. They put all the aircraft on graduation. They put all the aircraft on a board. What slots are there? They call a board. What slots are there? They call a board. What slots are there? They call you by name and you order a merit list.

17:24 you by name and you order a merit list. you by name and you order a merit list. You go up to the board, you take which You go up to the board, you take which You go up to the board, you take which aircraft is going to be yours. And in my aircraft is going to be yours. And in my aircraft is going to be yours. And in my case, I was just hoping not only that case, I was just hoping not only that case, I was just hoping not only that they would have Apache slots, but I was they would have Apache slots, but I was they would have Apache slots, but I was hoping that I was going to be hoping that I was going to be hoping that I was going to be competitively enough ranked to be one of

17:35 competitively enough ranked to be one of competitively enough ranked to be one of them because especially at the time that them because especially at the time that them because especially at the time that I was going through, it was a very I was going through, it was a very I was going through, it was a very competitive aircraft. Yet, thankfully competitive aircraft. Yet, thankfully competitive aircraft. Yet, thankfully worked out for me. That thing, the worked out for me. That thing, the worked out for me. That thing, the Apache is an absolute beast. Uh I I Apache is an absolute beast. Uh I I Apache is an absolute beast. Uh I I spent 5 years flying the MQ1 uh the

17:50 spent 5 years flying the MQ1 uh the spent 5 years flying the MQ1 uh the unmanned aircraft out of Las Vegas and unmanned aircraft out of Las Vegas and unmanned aircraft out of Las Vegas and we carry two Hellfire missiles, but I we carry two Hellfire missiles, but I we carry two Hellfire missiles, but I know you guys carry Hellfire missiles as know you guys carry Hellfire missiles as know you guys carry Hellfire missiles as well. Can you describe the armament that well. Can you describe the armament that well. Can you describe the armament that you guys are loaded down with for for you guys are loaded down with for for you guys are loaded down with for for missions?

18:01 missions? missions? Oh, can I describe the the aircraft that Oh, can I describe the the aircraft that Oh, can I describe the the aircraft that I like it's not that I don't admire that I like it's not that I don't admire that I like it's not that I don't admire that they actually is a that background image they actually is a that background image they actually is a that background image is a painting that one of my soldiers is a painting that one of my soldiers is a painting that one of my soldiers made for me when I left command. You made for me when I left command. You made for me when I left command. You know, that's a painting, not a photo. Uh

18:16 know, that's a painting, not a photo. Uh know, that's a painting, not a photo. Uh he was an instructor pilot that just had he was an instructor pilot that just had he was an instructor pilot that just had such an attention to detail, a true such an attention to detail, a true such an attention to detail, a true gift, like always threatened to fire it. gift, like always threatened to fire it. gift, like always threatened to fire it. Uh that aircraft is awesome. Just like Uh that aircraft is awesome. Just like Uh that aircraft is awesome. Just like they're saying something that been they're saying something that been they're saying something that been ranked the most advanced helicopter in

18:28 ranked the most advanced helicopter in ranked the most advanced helicopter in the world by even Discovery Channel. the world by even Discovery Channel. the world by even Discovery Channel. There are movies about this today. I There are movies about this today. I There are movies about this today. I think they wanted to make it a think they wanted to make it a think they wanted to make it a transformer at one point with good transformer at one point with good transformer at one point with good reason, right? Has the smallest argument reason, right? Has the smallest argument reason, right? Has the smallest argument I have on is a 30 mm cannon. And this

18:42 I have on is a 30 mm cannon. And this I have on is a 30 mm cannon. And this thing is cap. It's about the 30 mm is thing is cap. It's about the 30 mm is thing is cap. It's about the 30 mm is about that long, about that round. And about that long, about that round. And about that long, about that round. And when it makes contact with something when it makes contact with something when it makes contact with something like the ground or a target, it blows up like the ground or a target, it blows up like the ground or a target, it blows up into a 15 m radius. It's not Yeah, it's into a 15 m radius. It's not Yeah, it's into a 15 m radius. It's not Yeah, it's a it's a steel slug that also has

18:59 a it's a steel slug that also has a it's a steel slug that also has penetrating power of 2 in of rolled penetrating power of 2 in of rolled penetrating power of 2 in of rolled homogous armor where you're think. homogous armor where you're think. homogous armor where you're think. But then it's like a grenade and But then it's like a grenade and But then it's like a grenade and anywhere that I move my head gun can anywhere that I move my head gun can anywhere that I move my head gun can move with my hand. I pull the trigger move with my hand. I pull the trigger move with my hand. I pull the trigger and again that thing is one lethal and again that thing is one lethal and again that thing is one lethal grenade. Not one of those come out. at grenade. Not one of those come out. at grenade. Not one of those come out. at least 20 if not 100 come out when I pull

19:17 least 20 if not 100 come out when I pull least 20 if not 100 come out when I pull that trigger. that trigger. that trigger. I mean, talk about munition right there. I mean, talk about munition right there. I mean, talk about munition right there. And that's the smallest thing. That And that's the smallest thing. That And that's the smallest thing. That doesn't that's not on top of the rockets doesn't that's not on top of the rockets doesn't that's not on top of the rockets that we have that come in all different that we have that come in all different that we have that come in all different varieties. Everything from blow things varieties. Everything from blow things

19:30 varieties. Everything from blow things up, light up the sky, the shets that are up, light up the sky, the shets that are up, light up the sky, the shets that are nails really on battlefields. Uh and nails really on battlefields. Uh and nails really on battlefields. Uh and then you have those hellfire missiles then you have those hellfire missiles then you have those hellfire missiles again, same types that you guys carried again, same types that you guys carried again, same types that you guys carried on those unmanned aircraft. And I mean, on those unmanned aircraft. And I mean, on those unmanned aircraft. And I mean, fully armed Apache has 16 of them. just fully armed Apache has 16 of them. just

19:44 fully armed Apache has 16 of them. just one patches, flying teams of two. Um, a one patches, flying teams of two. Um, a one patches, flying teams of two. Um, a battalion is eight of them. You start battalion is eight of them. You start battalion is eight of them. You start doing the math and that's a lot of doing the math and that's a lot of doing the math and that's a lot of hellfire missiles that can lock on to hellfire missiles that can lock on to hellfire missiles that can lock on to different targets. And as quickly as you different targets. And as quickly as you different targets. And as quickly as you can do, this is how quickly notes can go

19:58 can do, this is how quickly notes can go can do, this is how quickly notes can go to their primary targets and secondary. to their primary targets and secondary. to their primary targets and secondary. Unbelievably impressive aircraft. So, Unbelievably impressive aircraft. So, Unbelievably impressive aircraft. So, just like the A-10 in the Air Force, just like the A-10 in the Air Force, just like the A-10 in the Air Force, which creates immediate fear, I imagine which creates immediate fear, I imagine which creates immediate fear, I imagine you guys are the you guys are the same you guys are the you guys are the same you guys are the you guys are the same way. So tell us how you got this um this

20:13 way. So tell us how you got this um this way. So tell us how you got this um this term this call sign the closer. term this call sign the closer. term this call sign the closer. Oh closer. Oh closer. Oh closer. Oh that's that's an interesting one. You Oh that's that's an interesting one. You Oh that's that's an interesting one. You know that was a name given to me by a know that was a name given to me by a know that was a name given to me by a major that I served with uh when I was a major that I served with uh when I was a major that I served with uh when I was a penitent and then rising captain. Uh penitent and then rising captain. Uh penitent and then rising captain. Uh they knew me while I was a captain. my

20:34 they knew me while I was a captain. my they knew me while I was a captain. my first unit. I first unit. I first unit. I at some point started doing things where at some point started doing things where at some point started doing things where if there was some no fail mission um if there was some no fail mission um if there was some no fail mission um that needed others may have tried to do that needed others may have tried to do that needed others may have tried to do or didn't get enough attention and there or didn't get enough attention and there or didn't get enough attention and there had to be a short time to get it done, I had to be a short time to get it done, I had to be a short time to get it done, I was brought in to finish it off. And was brought in to finish it off. And was brought in to finish it off. And once I started getting reputation for

20:54 once I started getting reputation for once I started getting reputation for that, I actually thought it was a name that, I actually thought it was a name that, I actually thought it was a name he was only using just with me. And then he was only using just with me. And then he was only using just with me. And then finally, not only did he start writing finally, not only did he start writing finally, not only did he start writing it in my evaluations for different

21:00 Afghanistan — The Dragon Callsign

21:02 it in my evaluations for different it in my evaluations for different things, but I've heard him use it in things, but I've heard him use it in things, but I've heard him use it in different staff meetings and otherwise different staff meetings and otherwise different staff meetings and otherwise we're just like, "Oh, yeah, now we know we're just like, "Oh, yeah, now we know we're just like, "Oh, yeah, now we know who we were talking to." And so that was who we were talking to." And so that was who we were talking to." And so that was that was a uh interesting thing for me that was a uh interesting thing for me that was a uh interesting thing for me to even realize at that moment that I

21:16 to even realize at that moment that I to even realize at that moment that I kind of had this without trying to get kind of had this without trying to get kind of had this without trying to get it. And I mean it and started off just a it. And I mean it and started off just a it. And I mean it and started off just a lot of investigations that need to get lot of investigations that need to get lot of investigations that need to get done and one point even became taking done and one point even became taking done and one point even became taking over a staff section that needed to get over a staff section that needed to get over a staff section that needed to get reformed. Um, and I was I was actually

21:29 reformed. Um, and I was I was actually reformed. Um, and I was I was actually grateful for all the weird positions it grateful for all the weird positions it grateful for all the weird positions it put me in. Things that really had put me in. Things that really had put me in. Things that really had nothing to do with my job as a Apache nothing to do with my job as a Apache nothing to do with my job as a Apache pilot or a direct leader. Uh, all of a pilot or a direct leader. Uh, all of a pilot or a direct leader. Uh, all of a sudden meant that I got a very wide sudden meant that I got a very wide sudden meant that I got a very wide range of experience.

21:44 range of experience. range of experience. When we when we evacuated Afghanistan, When we when we evacuated Afghanistan, When we when we evacuated Afghanistan, which still hurts me to this day, I was which still hurts me to this day, I was which still hurts me to this day, I was watching the PRD feed of some C7s that watching the PRD feed of some C7s that watching the PRD feed of some C7s that were taking off, evacuating all the were taking off, evacuating all the were taking off, evacuating all the refugees, and there were so many people refugees, and there were so many people refugees, and there were so many people surrounding the the airfield. People surrounding the the airfield. People

22:01 surrounding the the airfield. People were climbing onto the C7. They were were climbing onto the C7. They were were climbing onto the C7. They were walking in front of the airplane as it's walking in front of the airplane as it's walking in front of the airplane as it's taxing out. There was hundreds if not taxing out. There was hundreds if not taxing out. There was hundreds if not thousands of people all over the runway thousands of people all over the runway thousands of people all over the runway to the point where they called in to the point where they called in to the point where they called in Apaches to clear the runway. Not not to Apaches to clear the runway. Not not to

22:16 Apaches to clear the runway. Not not to shoot at anybody. No one was harmed, but shoot at anybody. No one was harmed, but shoot at anybody. No one was harmed, but the Apache was used as as a clearing the Apache was used as as a clearing the Apache was used as as a clearing mechanism just so these C17s could take mechanism just so these C17s could take mechanism just so these C17s could take off. Do you have any friends in that off. Do you have any friends in that off. Do you have any friends in that community that were part of the community that were part of the community that were part of the Afghanistan evacuation? Afghanistan evacuation? Afghanistan evacuation? Yes. Um, again, being having the

22:35 Yes. Um, again, being having the Yes. Um, again, being having the positions that I did meant that I was positions that I did meant that I was positions that I did meant that I was able to touch a wide variety of people able to touch a wide variety of people able to touch a wide variety of people for the two years that I was in charge for the two years that I was in charge for the two years that I was in charge of flight school. You couldn't graduate of flight school. You couldn't graduate of flight school. You couldn't graduate and become a pilot unless I signed a and become a pilot unless I signed a and become a pilot unless I signed a certificate. Pretty much given you that

22:47 certificate. Pretty much given you that certificate. Pretty much given you that license. license. license. And and I I did have people that were I And and I I did have people that were I And and I I did have people that were I wasn't directly above it, but I had I wasn't directly above it, but I had I wasn't directly above it, but I had I had people that I know that were part of had people that I know that were part of had people that I know that were part of those operations and assistant. those operations and assistant. those operations and assistant. Whenever you went through flight school, Whenever you went through flight school, Whenever you went through flight school, while I was the commander there, I made

23:04 while I was the commander there, I made while I was the commander there, I made sure to at least try and get to every sure to at least try and get to every sure to at least try and get to every class at least six times, right? Once a class at least six times, right? Once a class at least six times, right? Once a month and attaching course. month and attaching course. month and attaching course. And my reason for that, I always told And my reason for that, I always told And my reason for that, I always told them was, I have no idea what you're them was, I have no idea what you're them was, I have no idea what you're going to face. I don't know what the

23:22 going to face. I don't know what the going to face. I don't know what the moral thing might be in front of you, moral thing might be in front of you, moral thing might be in front of you, what tactical thing in front of you, what tactical thing in front of you, what tactical thing in front of you, what scenario in general. There's no way what scenario in general. There's no way what scenario in general. There's no way I can train you for everything. I hope I can train you for everything. I hope I can train you for everything. I hope that we can talk through some different that we can talk through some different that we can talk through some different vignettes and some different things that

23:34 vignettes and some different things that vignettes and some different things that have happened with me. So, you can have happened with me. So, you can have happened with me. So, you can definitely arch your quarterback like definitely arch your quarterback like definitely arch your quarterback like break it down as much as you want here break it down as much as you want here break it down as much as you want here where it's a safe environment and we can where it's a safe environment and we can where it's a safe environment and we can talk through it. And I hope the one talk through it. And I hope the one talk through it. And I hope the one thing you take out of it is do whatever

23:48 thing you take out of it is do whatever thing you take out of it is do whatever works for you in that moment. You could works for you in that moment. You could works for you in that moment. You could come back home, look at yourself in the come back home, look at yourself in the come back home, look at yourself in the mirror, no matter what that that may mirror, no matter what that that may mirror, no matter what that that may mean at the time. Again, battle that mean at the time. Again, battle that mean at the time. Again, battle that that fog of war is real and that limited that fog of war is real and that limited that fog of war is real and that limited information and and you know this going

24:05 information and and you know this going information and and you know this going from as as low ranking as you were at from as as low ranking as you were at from as as low ranking as you were at different points to looking at very high different points to looking at very high different points to looking at very high ranks that you have been considered for ranks that you have been considered for ranks that you have been considered for with Hano. It doesn't matter how high with Hano. It doesn't matter how high with Hano. It doesn't matter how high you get. You have to trust the person you get. You have to trust the person you get. You have to trust the person that is closest to the bottom, closest

24:21 that is closest to the bottom, closest that is closest to the bottom, closest to the action to make the decision, even to the action to make the decision, even to the action to make the decision, even if it's not what you would have told if it's not what you would have told if it's not what you would have told them to do otherwise, cuz they have the them to do otherwise, cuz they have the them to do otherwise, cuz they have the most relevant information. And we most relevant information. And we most relevant information. And we rightfully have to train our subordinate rightfully have to train our subordinate rightfully have to train our subordinate commanders to do that. We need to make

24:33 commanders to do that. We need to make commanders to do that. We need to make sure that they are armed as much as they sure that they are armed as much as they sure that they are armed as much as they can with that commander's tip that we can with that commander's tip that we can with that commander's tip that we can give them. But why, right? I hate can give them. But why, right? I hate can give them. But why, right? I hate whenever I always heard people, and I whenever I always heard people, and I whenever I always heard people, and I know you you remember this, Mike. How know you you remember this, Mike. How know you you remember this, Mike. How many times did you hear? Don't don't ask

24:45 many times did you hear? Don't don't ask many times did you hear? Don't don't ask why. Like we don't have time to tell you why. Like we don't have time to tell you why. Like we don't have time to tell you why. If there's one question you need to why. If there's one question you need to why. If there's one question you need to have time to give, it's why. Because have time to give, it's why. Because have time to give, it's why. Because without the wine, the management when without the wine, the management when without the wine, the management when the mission goes out a window and that the mission goes out a window and that the mission goes out a window and that whole plan means if I know why you are

24:58 whole plan means if I know why you are whole plan means if I know why you are doing it, I can change and make doing it, I can change and make doing it, I can change and make different directions. my time in OSD policy, uh, office of my time in OSD policy, uh, office of secretary of defense policy, I was secretary of defense policy, I was secretary of defense policy, I was working force development and I had this working force development and I had this working force development and I had this really good boss. He said, "Mike, we can really good boss. He said, "Mike, we can really good boss. He said, "Mike, we can come up with the greatest strategy and

25:16 come up with the greatest strategy and come up with the greatest strategy and ideas possible that we think of here in ideas possible that we think of here in ideas possible that we think of here in this, you know, in this this castle on this, you know, in this this castle on this, you know, in this this castle on the hill." But he said, "If it's not the hill." But he said, "If it's not the hill." But he said, "If it's not executable executable executable for the the, you know, the soldier, the for the the, you know, the soldier, the for the the, you know, the soldier, the sailor, or the airmen, all the strategy sailor, or the airmen, all the strategy

25:28 sailor, or the airmen, all the strategy is completely pointless." So it was nice is completely pointless." So it was nice is completely pointless." So it was nice to have somebody there to always remind to have somebody there to always remind to have somebody there to always remind you, hey, don't forget that policy you, hey, don't forget that policy you, hey, don't forget that policy actually has to be executable. actually has to be executable. actually has to be executable. So that was always helpful to remember. So that was always helpful to remember. So that was always helpful to remember. And so you know, you you mentioned And so you know, you you mentioned And so you know, you you mentioned leadership. While you were the commander leadership. While you were the commander leadership. While you were the commander of the Firebirds, you developed a

25:46 of the Firebirds, you developed a of the Firebirds, you developed a leadership philosophy of don't serve leadership philosophy of don't serve leadership philosophy of don't serve fires, know your people, draw fires so fires, know your people, draw fires so fires, know your people, draw fires so others can maneuver. Can you can you others can maneuver. Can you can you others can maneuver. Can you can you describe that? describe that? describe that? Yeah. So that that became my command Yeah. So that that became my command Yeah. So that that became my command philosophy and that grew out of me not philosophy and that grew out of me not philosophy and that grew out of me not knowing what the hell I was doing when I knowing what the hell I was doing when I knowing what the hell I was doing when I was young. I thankfully had all those was young. I thankfully had all those

26:06 was young. I thankfully had all those different experiences where I didn't different experiences where I didn't different experiences where I didn't fail thankfully but I made mistakes and fail thankfully but I made mistakes and fail thankfully but I made mistakes and I learned different things about myself, I learned different things about myself, I learned different things about myself, how I could operate as a leader um and how I could operate as a leader um and how I could operate as a leader um and just leadership in general and what was just leadership in general and what was just leadership in general and what was required to build consensus and teams.

26:23 required to build consensus and teams. required to build consensus and teams. That first part, don't serve fires. So That first part, don't serve fires. So That first part, don't serve fires. So much of my time leading, no matter what much of my time leading, no matter what much of my time leading, no matter what my job was at different points, became my job was at different points, became my job was at different points, became what emergency is happening right now what emergency is happening right now what emergency is happening right now that need my attention. And I to that need my attention. And I to that need my attention. And I to remember that wasn't the fires that

26:37 remember that wasn't the fires that remember that wasn't the fires that brought me into this, man. It was the brought me into this, man. It was the brought me into this, man. It was the people. Anytime something negative was people. Anytime something negative was people. Anytime something negative was happening or emergency was happening, I happening or emergency was happening, I happening or emergency was happening, I actually made it my goal that for every actually made it my goal that for every actually made it my goal that for every one of those, I tried to single out one of those, I tried to single out one of those, I tried to single out three different people in my

26:50 three different people in my three different people in my organization to thank them for whether organization to thank them for whether organization to thank them for whether it was having to do with that fire it was having to do with that fire it was having to do with that fire incident or something else. I would call incident or something else. I would call incident or something else. I would call someone's wife and say, "Hey, thanks so someone's wife and say, "Hey, thanks so someone's wife and say, "Hey, thanks so much for letting Joe stay late today." much for letting Joe stay late today." much for letting Joe stay late today." At first, it threw them off because they

27:04 At first, it threw them off because they At first, it threw them off because they they got a phone call from the command. they got a phone call from the command. they got a phone call from the command. They're like, "Oh my gosh, is Joe okay?" They're like, "Oh my gosh, is Joe okay?" They're like, "Oh my gosh, is Joe okay?" And I was like, "Okay, we need to get And I was like, "Okay, we need to get And I was like, "Okay, we need to get past if the commander call or something past if the commander call or something past if the commander call or something bad might be happening to your spouse." bad might be happening to your spouse." bad might be happening to your spouse." Um, so once we did that, uh, it was

27:16 Um, so once we did that, uh, it was Um, so once we did that, uh, it was something that I just wanted to try and something that I just wanted to try and something that I just wanted to try and find a way to reward them, whether it's find a way to reward them, whether it's find a way to reward them, whether it's picking up the phone and reward picking up the phone and reward picking up the phone and reward something like that. um knowing your something like that. um knowing your something like that. um knowing your people really knowing your people help people really knowing your people help people really knowing your people help with that where I try to as much as

27:29 with that where I try to as much as with that where I try to as much as possible and I've done this whether I've possible and I've done this whether I've possible and I've done this whether I've been on different boards or otherwise I been on different boards or otherwise I been on different boards or otherwise I try to have lunch or dinner or stuff try to have lunch or dinner or stuff try to have lunch or dinner or stuff with them and their families if I could with them and their families if I could with them and their families if I could um kind of get away from that office um kind of get away from that office um kind of get away from that office environment or just know hey what's

27:41 environment or just know hey what's environment or just know hey what's really important to you what are those really important to you what are those really important to you what are those goals everyone's going to have goals everyone's going to have goals everyone's going to have professional fine great but what are professional fine great but what are professional fine great but what are those personal goals at some point those personal goals at some point those personal goals at some point you're going to take off the uniform you're going to take off the uniform you're going to take off the uniform you're going to take off whatever suit you're going to take off whatever suit you're going to take off whatever suit you're having at that office and stuff you're having at that office and stuff you're having at that office and stuff and then what do you want later on with

27:54 and then what do you want later on with and then what do you want later on with that? I really wanted to try to figure that? I really wanted to try to figure that? I really wanted to try to figure out what like personal or family goals out what like personal or family goals out what like personal or family goals can I help with? Um or can I hold can I help with? Um or can I hold can I help with? Um or can I hold someone accountable to um and then someone accountable to um and then someone accountable to um and then finally that draw fire so others can finally that draw fire so others can finally that draw fire so others can maneuver. Uh knew I have to be in the

28:06 maneuver. Uh knew I have to be in the maneuver. Uh knew I have to be in the front seat of the match and draw fire front seat of the match and draw fire front seat of the match and draw fire for others. What I mean by that is there for others. What I mean by that is there for others. What I mean by that is there are so many times I realized my job as a are so many times I realized my job as a are so many times I realized my job as a leader was to just take someone yelling leader was to just take someone yelling leader was to just take someone yelling at me or some take some type of heat off at me or some take some type of heat off at me or some take some type of heat off of the people that I that worked with me

28:21 of the people that I that worked with me of the people that I that worked with me on things because they had a job to do on things because they had a job to do on things because they had a job to do and I almost needed to be that shield and I almost needed to be that shield and I almost needed to be that shield and buffer for them. Just do whatever and buffer for them. Just do whatever and buffer for them. Just do whatever they needed. Sometimes it was falling on they needed. Sometimes it was falling on they needed. Sometimes it was falling on my sword. Other times it was just having my sword. Other times it was just having my sword. Other times it was just having the courage to be able to say no or can

28:35 the courage to be able to say no or can the courage to be able to say no or can we do it another way? Can it happen we do it another way? Can it happen we do it another way? Can it happen another time? um you're always going to another time? um you're always going to another time? um you're always going to have to answer your bosses and that's have to answer your bosses and that's have to answer your bosses and that's that's part of a lot of things but I saw that's part of a lot of things but I saw that's part of a lot of things but I saw it as you know I'm not doing this for an it as you know I'm not doing this for an it as you know I'm not doing this for an evaluation I'm doing it I serve with and

28:47 evaluation I'm doing it I serve with and evaluation I'm doing it I serve with and I think it was Truman that said do your I think it was Truman that said do your I think it was Truman that said do your duty and history will be justice and I duty and history will be justice and I duty and history will be justice and I thought about that it was about the thought about that it was about the thought about that it was about the evaluation my men and women that serve evaluation my men and women that serve evaluation my men and women that serve that's where the army excels and the air that's where the army excels and the air that's where the army excels and the air force lags behind the the air force is

29:02 force lags behind the the air force is force lags behind the the air force is so focused on the weapon system expert so focused on the weapon system expert so focused on the weapon system expert and thankfully over the last couple and thankfully over the last couple and thankfully over the last couple decades they've they've been starting to decades they've they've been starting to decades they've they've been starting to recognize that, hey, taking care of that recognize that, hey, taking care of that recognize that, hey, taking care of that airman. So, for you providing that top airman. So, for you providing that top airman. So, for you providing that top cover and really getting to know them on

29:14 cover and really getting to know them on cover and really getting to know them on a personal level, they will go to the a personal level, they will go to the a personal level, they will go to the ends of the earth for you. And I don't ends of the earth for you. And I don't ends of the earth for you. And I don't know if we learned that from the army, know if we learned that from the army, know if we learned that from the army, but we've really started to embrace that but we've really started to embrace that but we've really started to embrace that now in the Air Force. And it it just now in the Air Force. And it it just now in the Air Force. And it it just pays dividends. People I I reach out to

29:26 pays dividends. People I I reach out to pays dividends. People I I reach out to folks that work for me years ago on a folks that work for me years ago on a folks that work for me years ago on a regular basis just because of that those regular basis just because of that those regular basis just because of that those relationships. They make a difference. relationships. They make a difference. relationships. They make a difference. So, good on you, brother. So, good on you, brother. So, good on you, brother. I mean, you you know it firsthand. You I mean, you you know it firsthand. You I mean, you you know it firsthand. You make friends for life with that common

29:40 make friends for life with that common make friends for life with that common struggle that we go through at different struggle that we go through at different struggle that we go through at different points, right? Like all of that. You points, right? Like all of that. You points, right? Like all of that. You think back to how we even choose to do think back to how we even choose to do think back to how we even choose to do basic training. Yes, everyone hates the basic training. Yes, everyone hates the basic training. Yes, everyone hates the drill sergeant, but they all bond drill sergeant, but they all bond drill sergeant, but they all bond together hating the drill sergeant,

29:52 together hating the drill sergeant, together hating the drill sergeant, right? And there's so many moments that right? And there's so many moments that right? And there's so many moments that you have like that when you're in the you have like that when you're in the you have like that when you're in the military and also outside of the military and also outside of the military and also outside of the military when you're going through some military when you're going through some military when you're going through some project, some deadline, some type of project, some deadline, some type of project, some deadline, some type of adversities together really can bring

30:00 Commanding the World's Largest Attack Helicopter Company

30:03 adversities together really can bring adversities together really can bring people together. I think that's that's people together. I think that's that's people together. I think that's that's such a good thing. Yes, the Air Force is such a good thing. Yes, the Air Force is such a good thing. Yes, the Air Force is full of technical and tactical experts. full of technical and tactical experts. full of technical and tactical experts. That is the whole mission of the Air That is the whole mission of the Air That is the whole mission of the Air Force in different ways and officers are Force in different ways and officers are Force in different ways and officers are groomed so much towards it where on the

30:17 groomed so much towards it where on the groomed so much towards it where on the army side it's the exact opposite. It's army side it's the exact opposite. It's army side it's the exact opposite. It's all about leadership and that's what you all about leadership and that's what you all about leadership and that's what you need to be and we really rely more on need to be and we really rely more on need to be and we really rely more on our non-commission officers to have that our non-commission officers to have that our non-commission officers to have that but how to get things done as is as but how to get things done as is as but how to get things done as is as their role and and we're we're going to

30:30 their role and and we're we're going to their role and and we're we're going to try to meet more in the middle with try to meet more in the middle with try to meet more in the middle with different things and figure all that different things and figure all that different things and figure all that stuff out. But I I think leadership for stuff out. But I I think leadership for stuff out. But I I think leadership for me always me always me always so your career you're crushing it. so your career you're crushing it. so your career you're crushing it. You're you're flying helicopters. You've You're you're flying helicopters. You've You're you're flying helicopters. You've been a commander. been a commander. been a commander. You're you're on the the upward path for You're you're on the the upward path for You're you're on the the upward path for future opportunities.

30:49 future opportunities. future opportunities. What happened? Oh, that that is a I ask myself that all Oh, that that is a I ask myself that all the time. Um the time. Um the time. Um said I was that patchy helicopter pilot said I was that patchy helicopter pilot said I was that patchy helicopter pilot and then one day I went from soaring to and then one day I went from soaring to and then one day I went from soaring to all of a sudden being flat on my face. all of a sudden being flat on my face. all of a sudden being flat on my face. Um prison impact. Um prison impact. Um prison impact. Um, all of a sudden I realized I'm going Um, all of a sudden I realized I'm going

31:17 Um, all of a sudden I realized I'm going in and out of consciousness. I'm getting in and out of consciousness. I'm getting in and out of consciousness. I'm getting wheeled through some hospital corridors. wheeled through some hospital corridors. wheeled through some hospital corridors. I wake up and there's a nurse finishing I wake up and there's a nurse finishing I wake up and there's a nurse finishing some stitches on my face. I had a some stitches on my face. I had a some stitches on my face. I had a traumatic brain injury. I axial facial traumatic brain injury. I axial facial traumatic brain injury. I axial facial fracture. I uh lost teeth. Um, couldn't

31:33 fracture. I uh lost teeth. Um, couldn't fracture. I uh lost teeth. Um, couldn't move my arm, move my right arm, my left move my arm, move my right arm, my left move my arm, move my right arm, my left arm. Um, arm. Um, arm. Um, feet weren't responding to me. And I I feet weren't responding to me. And I I feet weren't responding to me. And I I started off with just asking her, started off with just asking her, started off with just asking her, "Where's my where's my co-pilot? Uh "Where's my where's my co-pilot? Uh "Where's my where's my co-pilot? Uh where's my wingman? Are they okay? Uh where's my wingman? Are they okay? Uh where's my wingman? Are they okay? Uh who was I with? Was it was it this guy? who was I with? Was it was it this guy? who was I with? Was it was it this guy? I'm all over the place." She's just I'm all over the place." She's just

31:52 I'm all over the place." She's just looking at me and this this expression looking at me and this this expression looking at me and this this expression comes over her and she finally says, comes over her and she finally says, comes over her and she finally says, "You weren't in the aircraft." Still the "You weren't in the aircraft." Still the "You weren't in the aircraft." Still the man answers. You weren't in the man answers. You weren't in the man answers. You weren't in the aircraft. aircraft. aircraft. Wasn't the Taliban. You're not even in Wasn't the Taliban. You're not even in Wasn't the Taliban. You're not even in Afghanistan. Afghanistan.

32:07 Afghanistan. You were on the streets of DC. You were on the streets of DC. You were on the streets of DC. and you got taken out by a cop that was and you got taken out by a cop that was and you got taken out by a cop that was a pain. a pain. a pain. I'm tremendously confused at this point. I'm tremendously confused at this point. I'm tremendously confused at this point. I don't know what year it is, obviously. I don't know what year it is, obviously. I don't know what year it is, obviously. I didn't realize how bad things were. Um I didn't realize how bad things were. Um I didn't realize how bad things were. Um yeah, uh a cop that it was in a lights

32:27 yeah, uh a cop that it was in a lights yeah, uh a cop that it was in a lights and siren situation. He wasn't paying and siren situation. He wasn't paying and siren situation. He wasn't paying attention for whatever reason. And uh he attention for whatever reason. And uh he attention for whatever reason. And uh he got a traffic um ticket in the end for got a traffic um ticket in the end for got a traffic um ticket in the end for it. um he was found in vault, but it was it. um he was found in vault, but it was it. um he was found in vault, but it was it was something that destroyed my life. it was something that destroyed my life. it was something that destroyed my life. I felt it would eventually destroy my

32:42 I felt it would eventually destroy my I felt it would eventually destroy my military career. It destroyed my family military career. It destroyed my family military career. It destroyed my family setting at the time. It destroyed my setting at the time. It destroyed my setting at the time. It destroyed my health. um injuries that I sustained. health. um injuries that I sustained. health. um injuries that I sustained. And when I hadn't realized in that exact And when I hadn't realized in that exact And when I hadn't realized in that exact moment, but I would a few minutes later moment, but I would a few minutes later moment, but I would a few minutes later when they were bringing me to get some

32:57 when they were bringing me to get some when they were bringing me to get some core X-rays and MRIs done because I told core X-rays and MRIs done because I told core X-rays and MRIs done because I told them I couldn't move my arms. Um they them I couldn't move my arms. Um they them I couldn't move my arms. Um they asked me what my name and date of birth asked me what my name and date of birth asked me what my name and date of birth was. Again, the standard question you was. Again, the standard question you was. Again, the standard question you ask anyone right before they get some ask anyone right before they get some ask anyone right before they get some type of scand. I just started crying. Um

33:11 type of scand. I just started crying. Um type of scand. I just started crying. Um I didn't know my name. Person next to me I didn't know my name. Person next to me I didn't know my name. Person next to me says, "Gerald, it's going to be okay." I says, "Gerald, it's going to be okay." I says, "Gerald, it's going to be okay." I didn't realize at that point is that was didn't realize at that point is that was didn't realize at that point is that was a friend that had got a message about my a friend that had got a message about my a friend that had got a message about my GPS location. My friends, my watch had GPS location. My friends, my watch had GPS location. My friends, my watch had sent out a GPS signal actually to my

33:28 sent out a GPS signal actually to my sent out a GPS signal actually to my friends and let them know where I was. friends and let them know where I was. friends and let them know where I was. It didn't say what was happening. Just It didn't say what was happening. Just It didn't say what was happening. Just kind of gave an emer said emergency. It kind of gave an emer said emergency. It kind of gave an emer said emergency. It gave a GPS location and this group of gave a GPS location and this group of gave a GPS location and this group of friends tracked it down to the hospital. friends tracked it down to the hospital. friends tracked it down to the hospital. Hospital didn't even have my name on

33:42 Hospital didn't even have my name on Hospital didn't even have my name on file actually. Um, but they were saying, file actually. Um, but they were saying, file actually. Um, but they were saying, "No, he's here." And they they got to "No, he's here." And they they got to "No, he's here." And they they got to me. Um, and me. Um, and me. Um, and thankfully thankfully thankfully they were rotating through who was they were rotating through who was they were rotating through who was staying with me and and this person staying with me and and this person staying with me and and this person reminded me of who I was. And I actually reminded me of who I was. And I actually

33:59 reminded me of who I was. And I actually started repeating my name, rank, and started repeating my name, rank, and started repeating my name, rank, and serial number over and over myself when serial number over and over myself when serial number over and over myself when she reached over. she reached over. she reached over. You're a P. You're a P. You're a P. Sier training kicked in. Like that's Sier training kicked in. Like that's Sier training kicked in. Like that's exactly what it was probably. And and exactly what it was probably. And and exactly what it was probably. And and yeah, maybe it was a little bit of yeah, maybe it was a little bit of

34:15 yeah, maybe it was a little bit of thinking I was a P, but honestly, when I thinking I was a P, but honestly, when I thinking I was a P, but honestly, when I looked back on that moment a little, I looked back on that moment a little, I looked back on that moment a little, I kept worrying that if I didn't repeat it kept worrying that if I didn't repeat it kept worrying that if I didn't repeat it to myself over and over and over again, to myself over and over and over again, to myself over and over and over again, I would forget it again. The truth of I would forget it again. The truth of I would forget it again. The truth of the matter is, I would I would forget my

34:31 the matter is, I would I would forget my the matter is, I would I would forget my name again on several occasions. that name again on several occasions. that name again on several occasions. that would be found in I was found in a would be found in I was found in a would be found in I was found in a subway station, a metro station in DC subway station, a metro station in DC subway station, a metro station in DC crying one day uh even months later um crying one day uh even months later um crying one day uh even months later um here years later uh because I forgot who here years later uh because I forgot who here years later uh because I forgot who I was and I thought I was supposed to be

34:49 I was and I thought I was supposed to be I was and I thought I was supposed to be in Alabama. Alabama doesn't have a metro in Alabama. Alabama doesn't have a metro in Alabama. Alabama doesn't have a metro system. So I was very confused when I system. So I was very confused when I system. So I was very confused when I came to saw myself in uniform and I was came to saw myself in uniform and I was came to saw myself in uniform and I was like what the heck is going on? Just like what the heck is going on? Just like what the heck is going on? Just crying. I was I was confused so much crying. I was I was confused so much crying. I was I was confused so much that I was just weeping. People thought

35:05 that I was just weeping. People thought that I was just weeping. People thought I was having some PTSD episode on the I was having some PTSD episode on the I was having some PTSD episode on the train and stuff like that. Just couldn't train and stuff like that. Just couldn't train and stuff like that. Just couldn't explain where I was or what I was. My explain where I was or what I was. My explain where I was or what I was. My goodness. You're you're on the metro goodness. You're you're on the metro goodness. You're you're on the metro system. You've forgotten where you are. system. You've forgotten where you are. system. You've forgotten where you are. You're in uniform. talk us through what

35:20 You're in uniform. talk us through what You're in uniform. talk us through what it was like when the army said that you it was like when the army said that you it was like when the army said that you weren't going to fly anymore. I mean, I wish that's all they said. The I mean, I wish that's all they said. The army actually said you can't be in the army actually said you can't be in the army actually said you can't be in the army anymore. army anymore. army anymore. Um, so I couldn't even process just not Um, so I couldn't even process just not Um, so I couldn't even process just not flying as much as my entire flying as much as my entire flying as much as my entire career was done. I had worn that career was done. I had worn that career was done. I had worn that uniform. uniform. uniform. I had worn that uniform for years. I had worn that uniform for years.

35:47 I had worn that uniform for years. I worn the uniform for I mean if you I worn the uniform for I mean if you I worn the uniform for I mean if you count the time that I was in high school count the time that I was in high school count the time that I was in high school wearing a JRTC uniform it was like 20 wearing a JRTC uniform it was like 20 wearing a JRTC uniform it was like 20 years at that point with West Point and years at that point with West Point and years at that point with West Point and all it was was part of my identity all it was was part of my identity all it was was part of my identity and so that really messed with and so that really messed with

36:02 and so that really messed with really I had a doctor actually ask me at one I had a doctor actually ask me at one point you know you've lost so much what point you know you've lost so much what point you know you've lost so much what do you have left to live for this do you have left to live for this do you have left to live for this oh my god oh my god oh my god Dr. Walter Reed. Um, army doctors at Dr. Walter Reed. Um, army doctors at Dr. Walter Reed. Um, army doctors at their finest, right? But I remember just their finest, right? But I remember just their finest, right? But I remember just I didn't even think about his question I didn't even think about his question I didn't even think about his question much. I just said, "Well, my eyes still

36:21 much. I just said, "Well, my eyes still much. I just said, "Well, my eyes still work." Right? And I was trying to think work." Right? And I was trying to think work." Right? And I was trying to think of something that I had. I said, "My of something that I had. I said, "My of something that I had. I said, "My eyes still work. My my vision wasn't eyes still work. My my vision wasn't eyes still work. My my vision wasn't impaired like other people can." I was impaired like other people can." I was impaired like other people can." I was like, "Wait, that's all I have left to like, "Wait, that's all I have left to like, "Wait, that's all I have left to live for." And I kept thinking about

36:32 live for." And I kept thinking about live for." And I kept thinking about that that night. Thinking about, that that night. Thinking about, that that night. Thinking about, hey, what what is there left for? And hey, what what is there left for? And hey, what what is there left for? And that that that that drove me into severe depression. that drove me into severe depression. that drove me into severe depression. that drove me into that drove me into that drove me into I I didn't I hadn't had any issues with I I didn't I hadn't had any issues with I I didn't I hadn't had any issues with depression before this incident and it depression before this incident and it

36:49 depression before this incident and it just it spiraled. just it spiraled. just it spiraled. You lost your identity. I mean I you You lost your identity. I mean I you You lost your identity. I mean I you were an Apache helicopter pilot who was were an Apache helicopter pilot who was were an Apache helicopter pilot who was a commander and now all of a sudden this a commander and now all of a sudden this a commander and now all of a sudden this freak accident that didn't even happen freak accident that didn't even happen freak accident that didn't even happen in combat. It happens on the streets of in combat. It happens on the streets of in combat. It happens on the streets of Washington DC getting accidentally hit

37:07 Washington DC getting accidentally hit Washington DC getting accidentally hit by a police officer in his vehicle. I by a police officer in his vehicle. I by a police officer in his vehicle. I mean, how could you not be depressed? mean, how could you not be depressed? mean, how could you not be depressed? You know, I think what exacerbates it You know, I think what exacerbates it You know, I think what exacerbates it even more is that even more is that even more is that I didn't want to get any help. I mean, I I didn't want to get any help. I mean, I I didn't want to get any help. I mean, I didn't want to even tell people that my didn't want to even tell people that my

37:24 didn't want to even tell people that my injuries were coming from not combat, injuries were coming from not combat, injuries were coming from not combat, right? I have combat injuries. Like, right? I have combat injuries. Like, right? I have combat injuries. Like, that should be what I get help for. But that should be what I get help for. But that should be what I get help for. But what took me out was what took me out was what took me out was I'm straight to easy. And so I was like, I'm straight to easy. And so I was like, I'm straight to easy. And so I was like, "No, that that treatment and everything "No, that that treatment and everything "No, that that treatment and everything else. That needs to go to the true

37:42 else. That needs to go to the true else. That needs to go to the true warriors that deserve it. That's not me. warriors that deserve it. That's not me. warriors that deserve it. That's not me. I don't want to take up resources from I don't want to take up resources from I don't want to take up resources from the war fighters. Don't give it to me." the war fighters. Don't give it to me." the war fighters. Don't give it to me." And I I didn't want any. I didn't want And I I didn't want any. I didn't want And I I didn't want any. I didn't want help. I denied getting help for a really help. I denied getting help for a really help. I denied getting help for a really long time because I think something that

37:55 long time because I think something that long time because I think something that all of us are prone to do, yes, in the all of us are prone to do, yes, in the all of us are prone to do, yes, in the military and even outside, is we compare military and even outside, is we compare military and even outside, is we compare ourselves to everyone else and we're ourselves to everyone else and we're ourselves to everyone else and we're like, "My thing isn't as bad as this. like, "My thing isn't as bad as this. like, "My thing isn't as bad as this. I'm not worthy of this. I know someone I'm not worthy of this. I know someone I'm not worthy of this. I know someone else that eats this more than I do. And

38:08 else that eats this more than I do. And else that eats this more than I do. And whatever stupid excuse I had in my own whatever stupid excuse I had in my own whatever stupid excuse I had in my own head at that point that kept me from head at that point that kept me from head at that point that kept me from doing things, I realized after years doing things, I realized after years doing things, I realized after years afterwards looking back on it, the afterwards looking back on it, the afterwards looking back on it, the hardest thing I've ever had to do is ask hardest thing I've ever had to do is ask hardest thing I've ever had to do is ask for help. And I my ego got in the way

38:24 for help. And I my ego got in the way for help. And I my ego got in the way maybe in a lot of ways. Um besides me maybe in a lot of ways. Um besides me maybe in a lot of ways. Um besides me try to be say whatever else it was with try to be say whatever else it was with try to be say whatever else it was with others needing this. Um, there might others needing this. Um, there might others needing this. Um, there might have been a pride thing there, too. I have been a pride thing there, too. I have been a pride thing there, too. I just I didn't want to accept that I just I didn't want to accept that I just I didn't want to accept that I wasn't the same person. Um, after my

38:41 wasn't the same person. Um, after my wasn't the same person. Um, after my injuries, that I need help. I needed to injuries, that I need help. I needed to injuries, that I need help. I needed to recover. This wasn't Gerald anymore. I recover. This wasn't Gerald anymore. I recover. This wasn't Gerald anymore. I had to realize it was Gerald 2.0. I may had to realize it was Gerald 2.0. I may had to realize it was Gerald 2.0. I may not I now I'm always in pain. I can't not I now I'm always in pain. I can't not I now I'm always in pain. I can't run as fast as I used. Thankfully, I can run as fast as I used. Thankfully, I can run as fast as I used. Thankfully, I can walk again now and I my arms and that's

38:55 walk again now and I my arms and that's walk again now and I my arms and that's probably even why I'm more animated with probably even why I'm more animated with probably even why I'm more animated with them now because I can beat. But I'm not

39:00 The Traumatic Brain Injury and the Dark Period After

39:01 them now because I can beat. But I'm not them now because I can beat. But I'm not who I was pre-injjured. That's okay. And who I was pre-injjured. That's okay. And who I was pre-injjured. That's okay. And I had to realize that's okay. And I also I had to realize that's okay. And I also I had to realize that's okay. And I also had to be okay saying that I needed had to be okay saying that I needed had to be okay saying that I needed help. And finally getting to the point help. And finally getting to the point help. And finally getting to the point where I can tell other people, not just, where I can tell other people, not just, where I can tell other people, not just, hey, it's okay to get help, but

39:15 hey, it's okay to get help, but hey, it's okay to get help, but admitting to them I did get help. I was admitting to them I did get help. I was admitting to them I did get help. I was one of those people that needed help. one of those people that needed help. one of those people that needed help. And no shade in that. Of course, once again, like you said, in Of course, once again, like you said, in the military, we're always achieving for the military, we're always achieving for the military, we're always achieving for that for that next level that that that that for that next level that that that that for that next level that that that next criteria of excellence. And so,

39:35 next criteria of excellence. And so, next criteria of excellence. And so, when it comes to injuries, like you when it comes to injuries, like you when it comes to injuries, like you said, oh, well, I'm not missing a leg or said, oh, well, I'm not missing a leg or said, oh, well, I'm not missing a leg or I'm not missing an arm. I I just had a I'm not missing an arm. I I just had a I'm not missing an arm. I I just had a traumatic brain injury, so I I must be traumatic brain injury, so I I must be traumatic brain injury, so I I must be fine. I'll get over this. We've got to fine. I'll get over this. We've got to fine. I'll get over this. We've got to get beyond this

39:48 get beyond this get beyond this this thought process that we aren't this thought process that we aren't this thought process that we aren't deserving of this help. I mean, and how do you do that, right? I mean, and how do you do that, right? How do you I I've wrestled with this so How do you I I've wrestled with this so How do you I I've wrestled with this so much. Was there a way that I could have much. Was there a way that I could have much. Was there a way that I could have done it sooner? And there's no way to done it sooner? And there's no way to done it sooner? And there's no way to really know that, but I've decided now. really know that, but I've decided now.

40:11 really know that, but I've decided now. I I at one point had a I was asked to I I at one point had a I was asked to I I at one point had a I was asked to speak on a on a mental health. I I did speak on a on a mental health. I I did speak on a on a mental health. I I did so but right before they were so but right before they were so but right before they were introducing me they gave my walk on introducing me they gave my walk on introducing me they gave my walk on water resume right all these great water resume right all these great water resume right all these great things I've done and this is a mental things I've done and this is a mental things I've done and this is a mental health panel and the first question they health panel and the first question they health panel and the first question they asked me first question is to me first asked me first question is to me first

40:31 asked me first question is to me first question they asked me is what do you question they asked me is what do you question they asked me is what do you think is wrong with mental health today think is wrong with mental health today think is wrong with mental health today and I told them I was like really the and I told them I was like really the and I told them I was like really the way you introduced me what you needed to way you introduced me what you needed to way you introduced me what you needed to actually say is I've suffered from actually say is I've suffered from actually say is I've suffered from depression I was suicidal depression I was suicidal depression I was suicidal and let people know that we are We every

40:46 and let people know that we are We every and let people know that we are We every single person if I asked anyone in a single person if I asked anyone in a single person if I asked anyone in a room to be like hey how many people room to be like hey how many people room to be like hey how many people would if you're mentoring someone you would if you're mentoring someone you would if you're mentoring someone you would tell them hey if you need help would tell them hey if you need help would tell them hey if you need help like get help and I want you to get help like get help and I want you to get help like get help and I want you to get help and I'll be there for you and you can

40:58 and I'll be there for you and you can and I'll be there for you and you can call me and all that other stuff call me and all that other stuff call me and all that other stuff everyone raised their hands right but I everyone raised their hands right but I everyone raised their hands right but I was like how many of you actually tell was like how many of you actually tell was like how many of you actually tell people that you have gotten help and you people that you have gotten help and you people that you have gotten help and you needed to do that and you will do that needed to do that and you will do that needed to do that and you will do that and you will call them those things a

41:10 and you will call them those things a and you will call them those things a lot of hands went down right like we we lot of hands went down right like we we lot of hands went down right like we we still have some stigmas around it Um, still have some stigmas around it Um, still have some stigmas around it Um, there's this thing of, yeah, it's good there's this thing of, yeah, it's good there's this thing of, yeah, it's good for you, but maybe not for me, cuz I'm for you, but maybe not for me, cuz I'm for you, but maybe not for me, cuz I'm different in some type of way. I I don't different in some type of way. I I don't different in some type of way. I I don't need it the same way I know other people

41:22 need it the same way I know other people need it the same way I know other people do. Whatever the reason, that's why it's do. Whatever the reason, that's why it's do. Whatever the reason, that's why it's become part of me to just let people become part of me to just let people become part of me to just let people know. Yeah, I'm I'm not immune to it. know. Yeah, I'm I'm not immune to it. know. Yeah, I'm I'm not immune to it. Yeah, I might have a walk on water Yeah, I might have a walk on water Yeah, I might have a walk on water resume, but don't forget the parts that resume, but don't forget the parts that resume, but don't forget the parts that suffer from depression inside and hit

41:39 suffer from depression inside and hit suffer from depression inside and hit any one of us. any one of us. any one of us. So I think a lot of that depression uh So I think a lot of that depression uh So I think a lot of that depression uh comes from losing your purpose and comes from losing your purpose and comes from losing your purpose and unfortunately you had to go through this unfortunately you had to go through this unfortunately you had to go through this traumatic experience to find that second traumatic experience to find that second traumatic experience to find that second chapter of service to find that next chapter of service to find that next chapter of service to find that next level of purpose. This the Bill of

41:58 level of purpose. This the Bill of level of purpose. This the Bill of Rights Institute that you work at now. Rights Institute that you work at now. Rights Institute that you work at now. Did you find them or did they find you? Did you find them or did they find you? Did you find them or did they find you? You know it was a it was a combination You know it was a it was a combination You know it was a it was a combination really. they they had some things listed really. they they had some things listed really. they they had some things listed and and I was looking through their and and I was looking through their and and I was looking through their stuff and then uh they they started

42:13 stuff and then uh they they started stuff and then uh they they started learning some more about me and and the learning some more about me and and the learning some more about me and and the position they had listed was something position they had listed was something position they had listed was something that didn't fit me at all but they that didn't fit me at all but they that didn't fit me at all but they realized that there could be something realized that there could be something realized that there could be something here really because of the life I've here really because of the life I've here really because of the life I've I've had and then they saw some of the

42:24 I've had and then they saw some of the I've had and then they saw some of the things I've I've worked on I've talked things I've I've worked on I've talked things I've I've worked on I've talked about in my my speaking side of things about in my my speaking side of things about in my my speaking side of things and they realized there's a lot of and they realized there's a lot of and they realized there's a lot of similarities there because what the Bill similarities there because what the Bill similarities there because what the Bill of Rights Institute does is we provide of Rights Institute does is we provide of Rights Institute does is we provide at no cost to teachers. We provide

42:40 at no cost to teachers. We provide at no cost to teachers. We provide teachers and students teachers and students teachers and students what they need to teach civics. And that what they need to teach civics. And that what they need to teach civics. And that sounds like such a basic thing, but you sounds like such a basic thing, but you sounds like such a basic thing, but you have to realize that some schools don't have to realize that some schools don't have to realize that some schools don't even have civics as part of their even have civics as part of their even have civics as part of their curriculum. So, anything a teacher wants curriculum. So, anything a teacher wants curriculum. So, anything a teacher wants to do to teach civics is on their own to do to teach civics is on their own to do to teach civics is on their own dime. And so, we provide civics,

43:00 dime. And so, we provide civics, dime. And so, we provide civics, American history, things that a social American history, things that a social American history, things that a social studies teacher would use at no cost to studies teacher would use at no cost to studies teacher would use at no cost to them. We make lesson plans, everything. them. We make lesson plans, everything. them. We make lesson plans, everything. We have over 80,000 educators using our We have over 80,000 educators using our We have over 80,000 educators using our materials right now. That means 8 materials right now. That means 8 materials right now. That means 8 million students are being served up by

43:14 million students are being served up by million students are being served up by as far as feds. as far as feds. as far as feds. 6,000 6,000 6,000 nocost civics history resources are nocost civics history resources are nocost civics history resources are available to them on our website. Anyone available to them on our website. Anyone available to them on our website. Anyone can look at it. We make sure it's can look at it. We make sure it's can look at it. We make sure it's nonpartisan, which is extremely hard to nonpartisan, which is extremely hard to nonpartisan, which is extremely hard to do. So what we do is we make sure that do. So what we do is we make sure that

43:31 do. So what we do is we make sure that hey we know whatever your preference is hey we know whatever your preference is hey we know whatever your preference is going to be, what bias you might be going to be, what bias you might be going to be, what bias you might be leaning into one way or another so that leaning into one way or another so that leaning into one way or another so that we can actually make sure that we can we can actually make sure that we can we can actually make sure that we can have two people work on this that are of have two people work on this that are of have two people work on this that are of different point of views and we have different point of views and we have

43:43 different point of views and we have something straight down the middle that something straight down the middle that something straight down the middle that everyone can beat up on. Right? And it everyone can beat up on. Right? And it everyone can beat up on. Right? And it does so many things that we've been able does so many things that we've been able does so many things that we've been able to see where now it doesn't matter what to see where now it doesn't matter what to see where now it doesn't matter what zip code you're in. I always think about zip code you're in. I always think about zip code you're in. I always think about that zip code that I was in, right?

43:56 that zip code that I was in, right? that zip code that I was in, right? Doesn't matter what zip code that you Doesn't matter what zip code that you Doesn't matter what zip code that you might be in or your school's financial might be in or your school's financial might be in or your school's financial position or anything like that. We want position or anything like that. We want position or anything like that. We want every student and every teacher to have every student and every teacher to have every student and every teacher to have access to quality civics curriculum access to quality civics curriculum access to quality civics curriculum because for me it's personal, right? I

44:10 because for me it's personal, right? I because for me it's personal, right? I want to make sure that the next Gerald want to make sure that the next Gerald want to make sure that the next Gerald that's out there isn't lucky because of that's out there isn't lucky because of that's out there isn't lucky because of their zip code. They're lucky because their zip code. They're lucky because their zip code. They're lucky because their teacher is dedicated to them and their teacher is dedicated to them and their teacher is dedicated to them and has the resources that are going to make has the resources that are going to make has the resources that are going to make sure that stand out the way they need to

44:24 sure that stand out the way they need to sure that stand out the way they need to without them having to break their without them having to break their without them having to break their backs. backs. backs. It's so important, Gerald. I mean, local It's so important, Gerald. I mean, local It's so important, Gerald. I mean, local politics politics politics are the foundation of our federal level are the foundation of our federal level are the foundation of our federal level politics. And so, so many people just politics. And so, so many people just politics. And so, so many people just assume, ah, somebody else will do it. I assume, ah, somebody else will do it. I

44:39 assume, ah, somebody else will do it. I don't need to participate. and my time don't need to participate. and my time don't need to participate. and my time on Capitol Hill. My last three years in on Capitol Hill. My last three years in on Capitol Hill. My last three years in the Pentagon, I worked on Capitol Hill. the Pentagon, I worked on Capitol Hill. the Pentagon, I worked on Capitol Hill. And I noticed myself educating people on And I noticed myself educating people on And I noticed myself educating people on all of these very basic civil liberties, all of these very basic civil liberties, all of these very basic civil liberties, what the Constitution is, what the Bill

44:55 what the Constitution is, what the Bill what the Constitution is, what the Bill of Rights is. Uh, for instance, a lot of of Rights is. Uh, for instance, a lot of of Rights is. Uh, for instance, a lot of people don't realize that if you're people don't realize that if you're people don't realize that if you're watching CNBC or whatever the channel is watching CNBC or whatever the channel is watching CNBC or whatever the channel is that shows them standing at the podium that shows them standing at the podium that shows them standing at the podium and they're giving a speech, right? and they're giving a speech, right? and they're giving a speech, right? That's them allowing that's their

45:09 That's them allowing that's their That's them allowing that's their talking head moment for these sound talking head moment for these sound talking head moment for these sound bites that will be pushed on their TV bites that will be pushed on their TV bites that will be pushed on their TV channels, whether they're left or channels, whether they're left or channels, whether they're left or they're right. You know, they they they they're right. You know, they they they they're right. You know, they they they say, "Oh, look, you know, look what um say, "Oh, look, you know, look what um say, "Oh, look, you know, look what um so and so is saying, you know, the the

45:21 so and so is saying, you know, the the so and so is saying, you know, the the hard charger." And you're like, "There's hard charger." And you're like, "There's hard charger." And you're like, "There's no one actually there. They're not no one actually there. They're not no one actually there. They're not submitting a bill. This is just a a submitting a bill. This is just a a submitting a bill. This is just a a chance for talking head speak. Another chance for talking head speak. Another chance for talking head speak. Another example is um Jackson, Ronnie Jackson example is um Jackson, Ronnie Jackson example is um Jackson, Ronnie Jackson from Texas. He he put forward a bill

45:37 from Texas. He he put forward a bill from Texas. He he put forward a bill calling uh Kamla the borders are right. calling uh Kamla the borders are right. calling uh Kamla the borders are right. Well, that bill never got a sponsor. It Well, that bill never got a sponsor. It Well, that bill never got a sponsor. It it it died at step one, but now it's it it died at step one, but now it's it it died at step one, but now it's written. It's in congress.gov. You can written. It's in congress.gov. You can written. It's in congress.gov. You can see it. But nobody actually asks the see it. But nobody actually asks the see it. But nobody actually asks the critical questions of what what is a

45:53 critical questions of what what is a critical questions of what what is a borders are? And then when you actually borders are? And then when you actually borders are? And then when you actually go to congress.gov and you do some go to congress.gov and you do some go to congress.gov and you do some research, you're like, "Oh, this is just research, you're like, "Oh, this is just research, you're like, "Oh, this is just some guy that stood on the floor and some guy that stood on the floor and some guy that stood on the floor and said, you know, I I have a proposal and said, you know, I I have a proposal and said, you know, I I have a proposal and nobody seconded it. Nobody nobody

46:05 nobody seconded it. Nobody nobody nobody seconded it. Nobody nobody sponsors it and it dies." But then all sponsors it and it dies." But then all sponsors it and it dies." But then all of a sudden it's this talking point of of a sudden it's this talking point of of a sudden it's this talking point of well, she's the borders are she's the well, she's the borders are she's the well, she's the borders are she's the borders are they Capitol Hill said she's borders are they Capitol Hill said she's borders are they Capitol Hill said she's the borders are. And I'm just giving the borders are. And I'm just giving the borders are. And I'm just giving that example of her. There's plenty of

46:17 that example of her. There's plenty of that example of her. There's plenty of examples from the other side as well. examples from the other side as well. examples from the other side as well. This is just the one that's coming to This is just the one that's coming to This is just the one that's coming to mind of recent. But uh and then these mind of recent. But uh and then these mind of recent. But uh and then these executive orders. I mean, every executive orders. I mean, every executive orders. I mean, every president has executive orders. president has executive orders. president has executive orders. But people don't realize that that's not But people don't realize that that's not But people don't realize that that's not a law. That's just the president writing a law. That's just the president writing a law. That's just the president writing down on a piece of paper what they want

46:37 down on a piece of paper what they want down on a piece of paper what they want to do. I mean, during the Obama to do. I mean, during the Obama to do. I mean, during the Obama administration, he knew he wasn't going administration, he knew he wasn't going administration, he knew he wasn't going to get a lot of people confirmed through to get a lot of people confirmed through to get a lot of people confirmed through Congress. So he started having executive Congress. So he started having executive Congress. So he started having executive orders naming ZARS for particular orders naming ZARS for particular orders naming ZARS for particular offices. So once again, the left does it

46:50 offices. So once again, the left does it offices. So once again, the left does it as well as the right. But people on TV as well as the right. But people on TV as well as the right. But people on TV just think, oh well, the president said just think, oh well, the president said just think, oh well, the president said that and they signed that document. So that and they signed that document. So that and they signed that document. So executive orders go forth and conquer. executive orders go forth and conquer. executive orders go forth and conquer. Like civics, civics, you guys, you, your Like civics, civics, you guys, you, your Like civics, civics, you guys, you, your team, help me explain this to people.

47:00 Forging Forward — A Philosophy Born in Pain

47:06 team, help me explain this to people. team, help me explain this to people. Okay, I'm off my I'm off my soap box. Okay, I'm off my I'm off my soap box. Okay, I'm off my I'm off my soap box. No, Mike, stay on there, brother. No, Mike, stay on there, brother. No, Mike, stay on there, brother. Because you know what? That's what Because you know what? That's what Because you know what? That's what people are asking when people were using people are asking when people were using people are asking when people were using our websites like we were always our websites like we were always our websites like we were always checking websites stats what people are

47:18 checking websites stats what people are checking websites stats what people are searching for what terms right and one searching for what terms right and one searching for what terms right and one of the things that has been glaring of the things that has been glaring of the things that has been glaring since the beginning of the year was since the beginning of the year was since the beginning of the year was exactly what you said what are executive exactly what you said what are executive exactly what you said what are executive orders was a big question we're asking orders was a big question we're asking orders was a big question we're asking on our website uh another one was what

47:31 on our website uh another one was what on our website uh another one was what does Congress do and so these are does Congress do and so these are does Congress do and so these are legitimate things what are checks and legitimate things what are checks and legitimate things what are checks and balances being a third one and people balances being a third one and people balances being a third one and people are watching our content and whether are watching our content and whether are watching our content and whether they're videos and otherwise. They're they're videos and otherwise. They're they're videos and otherwise. They're not all teachers. Also, anyone can look

47:44 not all teachers. Also, anyone can look not all teachers. Also, anyone can look at our stuff. You can go right now, log at our stuff. You can go right now, log at our stuff. You can go right now, log on to our website and you can make your on to our website and you can make your on to our website and you can make your own account. Again, no cost at all. own account. Again, no cost at all. own account. Again, no cost at all. It's going to ask if you're a teacher It's going to ask if you're a teacher It's going to ask if you're a teacher just cuz I want to be able to count how just cuz I want to be able to count how just cuz I want to be able to count how many teachers we have so I can I report

47:55 many teachers we have so I can I report many teachers we have so I can I report that accurately, but I want everyone to that accurately, but I want everyone to that accurately, but I want everyone to use it. But people want information and use it. But people want information and use it. But people want information and they want to know what works in our they want to know what works in our they want to know what works in our government and why isn't it maybe government and why isn't it maybe government and why isn't it maybe working the way and also how should it working the way and also how should it working the way and also how should it work? Because again, that constitution,

48:08 work? Because again, that constitution, work? Because again, that constitution, that ideal that we should strive for, I that ideal that we should strive for, I that ideal that we should strive for, I mean, every time I hear anyone say, and mean, every time I hear anyone say, and mean, every time I hear anyone say, and I've heard it so many times, especially I've heard it so many times, especially I've heard it so many times, especially over the last 12 years in different over the last 12 years in different over the last 12 years in different ways, like, is this the end of the ways, like, is this the end of the ways, like, is this the end of the Constitution? You know what? As long as

48:21 Constitution? You know what? As long as Constitution? You know what? As long as you got people like me and you, Mike, you got people like me and you, Mike, you got people like me and you, Mike, and the people we've served with, both and the people we've served with, both and the people we've served with, both of us say no. Right? Like, as soon as of us say no. Right? Like, as soon as of us say no. Right? Like, as soon as you hear that, it's like, no, because you hear that, it's like, no, because you hear that, it's like, no, because even the oath of office we took wasn't even the oath of office we took wasn't even the oath of office we took wasn't to a office or anything like that. It's

48:35 to a office or anything like that. It's to a office or anything like that. It's to the Constitution and it's to support to the Constitution and it's to support to the Constitution and it's to support and defend that document, that founding and defend that document, that founding and defend that document, that founding document, those ideals that yeah, we document, those ideals that yeah, we document, those ideals that yeah, we don't have it all together all the time, don't have it all together all the time, don't have it all together all the time, but we can. And it's worth protecting. but we can. And it's worth protecting. but we can. And it's worth protecting. It's worth preserving.

48:52 It's worth preserving. It's worth preserving. And this is something that even recently And this is something that even recently And this is something that even recently I've been trying to highlight. We have I I've been trying to highlight. We have I I've been trying to highlight. We have I have my my own series, our honoring have my my own series, our honoring have my my own series, our honoring service series at BRRI where I bring in service series at BRRI where I bring in service series at BRRI where I bring in veterans and we talk about what service veterans and we talk about what service veterans and we talk about what service and defending the constitution means to

49:08 and defending the constitution means to and defending the constitution means to them. These videos have already gotten them. These videos have already gotten them. These videos have already gotten thousands of views, just started this thousands of views, just started this thousands of views, just started this year and it's something that we use to year and it's something that we use to year and it's something that we use to remind students especially that service remind students especially that service remind students especially that service comes in all shapes of things. Yes, we comes in all shapes of things. Yes, we comes in all shapes of things. Yes, we highlight veterans, but that's the

49:23 highlight veterans, but that's the highlight veterans, but that's the thing. In most cases, they're veterans. thing. In most cases, they're veterans. thing. In most cases, they're veterans. They're doing something else now, but They're doing something else now, but They're doing something else now, but they can't stop serving. Because when we they can't stop serving. Because when we they can't stop serving. Because when we took that uniform off, it didn't mean took that uniform off, it didn't mean took that uniform off, it didn't mean that we took the values off. It didn't that we took the values off. It didn't that we took the values off. It didn't mean that we stopped living up to the

49:37 mean that we stopped living up to the mean that we stopped living up to the oath of office. And the truth of the oath of office. And the truth of the oath of office. And the truth of the matter is, even though me and you wore matter is, even though me and you wore matter is, even though me and you wore the uniform, we all could wear the the uniform, we all could wear the the uniform, we all could wear the values. And that, I think, is the beauty values. And that, I think, is the beauty values. And that, I think, is the beauty of how our warrior class has continued of how our warrior class has continued of how our warrior class has continued to develop and will always serve this

49:51 to develop and will always serve this to develop and will always serve this country. country. country. Well, I'm glad that your your new Well, I'm glad that your your new Well, I'm glad that your your new platform is getting views because sadly platform is getting views because sadly platform is getting views because sadly all the clickbait is focused on um you all the clickbait is focused on um you all the clickbait is focused on um you know, traumatic crazy this person died know, traumatic crazy this person died know, traumatic crazy this person died or this blew up or so all these good or this blew up or so all these good or this blew up or so all these good news stories, you know, the algorithms

50:07 news stories, you know, the algorithms news stories, you know, the algorithms keep them at the bottom. So, I'm really keep them at the bottom. So, I'm really keep them at the bottom. So, I'm really glad to hear that you are making a glad to hear that you are making a glad to hear that you are making a difference and it's your footprint is difference and it's your footprint is difference and it's your footprint is growing from that perspective. And I I growing from that perspective. And I I growing from that perspective. And I I just wanted to leave you with this, you just wanted to leave you with this, you just wanted to leave you with this, you know, uh being being a a kid from

50:23 know, uh being being a a kid from know, uh being being a a kid from Queens, New York, who had a chance to go Queens, New York, who had a chance to go Queens, New York, who had a chance to go to, you know, to West Point, one of the to, you know, to West Point, one of the to, you know, to West Point, one of the most elitemies, most elitemies, most elitemies, gets his MBA from Georgetown, gets his MBA from Georgetown, gets his MBA from Georgetown, was an Apache was an Apache was an Apache helicopter pilot. helicopter pilot. helicopter pilot. That's that's I mean, that's one hell of That's that's I mean, that's one hell of That's that's I mean, that's one hell of a career.

50:43 a career. a career. What advice do you have to those kids What advice do you have to those kids What advice do you have to those kids that look at you and think, "Man, I I that look at you and think, "Man, I I that look at you and think, "Man, I I wish I could do that someday, but I wish I could do that someday, but I wish I could do that someday, but I don't I don't have the money to go to don't I don't have the money to go to don't I don't have the money to go to school, but I don't have the the school, but I don't have the the school, but I don't have the the capacity to learn how to fly a capacity to learn how to fly a capacity to learn how to fly a helicopter." What kind of what kind of

50:58 helicopter." What kind of what kind of helicopter." What kind of what kind of stories What kind of inspiration can you stories What kind of inspiration can you stories What kind of inspiration can you provide to those kids? provide to those kids? provide to those kids? Yeah, Mike, I don't care how old you Yeah, Mike, I don't care how old you Yeah, Mike, I don't care how old you are, my advice is the same. Porch are, my advice is the same. Porch are, my advice is the same. Porch forward. You can go through life and you forward. You can go through life and you forward. You can go through life and you know what I'll tell you. What if three know what I'll tell you. What if three

51:15 know what I'll tell you. What if three stages is where you are right now? My stages is where you are right now? My stages is where you are right now? My friend would always tell me you're friend would always tell me you're friend would always tell me you're either right in the middle of some type either right in the middle of some type either right in the middle of some type of trouble, you're getting out of some of trouble, you're getting out of some of trouble, you're getting out of some type of trial or tribulation or you're type of trial or tribulation or you're type of trial or tribulation or you're about to get into some type of trial about to get into some type of trial

51:26 about to get into some type of trial tribulation and struggle. The universal tribulation and struggle. The universal tribulation and struggle. The universal truth of life. I'm sorry to be the truth of life. I'm sorry to be the truth of life. I'm sorry to be the person to spoil that for you. You hadn't person to spoil that for you. You hadn't person to spoil that for you. You hadn't known that. But you can go into these known that. But you can go into these known that. But you can go into these furnaces and yeah, you can absolutely furnaces and yeah, you can absolutely furnaces and yeah, you can absolutely melt. That's an option. Or you can go melt. That's an option. Or you can go

51:42 melt. That's an option. Or you can go through this hot period in life and you through this hot period in life and you through this hot period in life and you can get heated up. You can even be can get heated up. You can even be can get heated up. You can even be banged against an anvil. banged against an anvil. banged against an anvil. Hopefully, if you do it the right way, Hopefully, if you do it the right way, Hopefully, if you do it the right way, you can come out, go in steel and come you can come out, go in steel and come you can come out, go in steel and come out this refined sword, something out this refined sword, something out this refined sword, something sharper. You may not even know why you

51:58 sharper. You may not even know why you sharper. You may not even know why you have developed this sword yet. May not have developed this sword yet. May not have developed this sword yet. May not manifest itself for years. may ever

52:00 Civic Leadership and the Bill of Rights Institute

52:02 manifest itself for years. may ever manifest itself for years. may ever manifest itself to you. But it's there manifest itself to you. But it's there manifest itself to you. But it's there for a reason. I get asked all the time for a reason. I get asked all the time for a reason. I get asked all the time haters are border made. I'll also say haters are border made. I'll also say haters are border made. I'll also say I'll always say they're for I'll always say they're for I'll always say they're for is that trial or tribulation you have is that trial or tribulation you have is that trial or tribulation you have will make you. Never teach someone will make you. Never teach someone will make you. Never teach someone empathy. Hopefully they can recognize empathy. Hopefully they can recognize empathy. Hopefully they can recognize that those pivotal moments in their life

52:22 that those pivotal moments in their life that those pivotal moments in their life are the ones that really created who are the ones that really created who are the ones that really created who they can be as leaders. That's why my they can be as leaders. That's why my they can be as leaders. That's why my advice is always for people to remember advice is always for people to remember advice is always for people to remember all those successful points they've had all those successful points they've had all those successful points they've had along the way. Use that to forge. along the way. Use that to forge. along the way. Use that to forge. Brother, thank you so much for coming on

52:37 Brother, thank you so much for coming on Brother, thank you so much for coming on the show because even though we have not the show because even though we have not the show because even though we have not met in person and we served in met in person and we served in met in person and we served in completely different capacities in completely different capacities in completely different capacities in different services, we are cut from the different services, we are cut from the different services, we are cut from the same cloth. And there's so many of us same cloth. And there's so many of us same cloth. And there's so many of us out there that we need to continue to

52:51 out there that we need to continue to out there that we need to continue to have our voices heard to try and make a have our voices heard to try and make a have our voices heard to try and make a difference. And man, I love what you difference. And man, I love what you difference. And man, I love what you guys are doing at the Bill of Rights guys are doing at the Bill of Rights guys are doing at the Bill of Rights Institute. I would love to hear more. Institute. I would love to hear more. Institute. I would love to hear more. Heck, I would love to be on your show. Heck, I would love to be on your show. Heck, I would love to be on your show. So, let's let's connect afterwards. And

53:05 So, let's let's connect afterwards. And So, let's let's connect afterwards. And I really do appreciate everything you're I really do appreciate everything you're I really do appreciate everything you're doing, Gerald. doing, Gerald. doing, Gerald. That's right, Mike. Again, you we That's right, Mike. Again, you we That's right, Mike. Again, you we haven't met yet, but there's still still haven't met yet, but there's still still haven't met yet, but there's still still time. We'll make sure to do that. And time. We'll make sure to do that. And time. We'll make sure to do that. And you definitely will be on our show. you definitely will be on our show.

53:15 you definitely will be on our show. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Take Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Take Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Take your ring.