She Had It All. Then She Walked Away

Full transcript

10,289 words · 57:38 runtime

00:00 Cold Open — Supposed to Have It Figured Out

0:00 do you ever feel like you're supposed to have it all figured out so did retired army colonel jody brown until she didn't after 26 years of service multiple master's degrees and leading 800 personnel across the east coast this 93-pound powerhouse who commanded rooms full of infantry soldiers who spent 15 months in iraq as a brigade nurse who went from failing her nursing boards to earning a doctorate who crushed the series 7 exam and landed her dream job she made a decision that shocked everyone she stopped no plan no apologies just honest truth because here's what nobody tells you about military retirement the uniform comes off but the expectations don't the mission ends

0:48 but the identity crisis begins in this episode jody opens up about if you've ever felt stuck on

01:00 Introduction & The Identity Crisis

1:12 someone else's timeline if you've ever questioned whether you've ever been the one to say i'm not the one to say that pausing means failing if you're wondering what happens when you stop chasing the next promotion the next degree the next milestone this conversation is for you welcome to voice for valor honestly jody welcome to the voice for valor as you know mike camores and we served together in what 2019 while we were at eisenhower but uh for the audience jody brown retired colonel from the united states army yeah and i had a have a few questions that kind of start with your origins okay and then we go off to the purpose and where you were on those front lines of service and then transitioning to the you know so the business

2:04 world and then yeah and then some closing arguments to hear what you have to say for the for the rest of the folks how's that sound sounds perfect thing okay well to start off i i've said this before to you before but you are not the prototypical army colonel that i think most folks who grew up watching gi joe would ever think of so how as a colonel what first sparked the idea that the army could be a fit for you in your life yeah i get asked that question a lot or i did when i was serving i uh my father he was you know vietnam vet uh served in the national guard so i was exposed to the military world growing up my aunts was a west point grad i didn't really understand west point but i knew that was a prestigious military school and

2:54 i had some thoughts about going into the military right out of high school and my dad was like absolutely not if you're going to go in the military you're going to be an officer because he was the list in and he thought as a small female that he wanted to protect me so i kind of put it on hold i went to college and you know we didn't come from a wealthy family my dad didn't have money to you know pay for school so as i was going to my third year i didn't really have the funds and to be you know i'm an honest broker there was a cute uh army uh cadet who had invited me to a party and said hey come learn about this rotc uh deal and i went and they were really fun people and he introduced me to some of the

3:37 other cadets and then i found myself you know before the instructors or whomever i had to talk to to you know learn about the program and getting a scholarship and and so i went for forth to get a scholarship and uh i was in the nursing program so i was going you know to pursue being an army nurse okay what did your dad do in the you said the army national guard yeah which state was he from was he serving as an army national guard massachusetts okay and what was he doing for the army so he hadn't done a few different mos's but what is an mos for the laymans that don't understand our military acronyms military occupation specialty i think is what the okay so basically what specialty did he have and it was different in

4:24 vietnam but in the national guard he was a 92 golf which is a cook and i remember specifically hopefully you know he's retiring now so he won't get in trouble but he would bring home like extra food and uh i remember like the cereal boxes he would bring home and whenever he cooked he'd cook for you know 100 people it would seem like even though there was four of us uh he'd have the big you know pans and make a he cooked beret but that's what he had to be good at while i was growing then okay and then you said it not me so this will allow me to ask you in your diminutive size can you explain to us size wise i mean now i don't think it's possible that

05:00 Growing Up Small — 4'10" and Determined

5:01 you're even 100 pounds so in college what are we what are we talking what are you 4 foot 10 4 foot 11 85 pounds in college where were you no i actually so i've held on to uh probably five feet in maybe a half or a quarter inch i you know when you're small quarter and half inches go a long way less than i did in in college i weighed probably 97 pounds i weigh 93 now so i like to say i'm a pint-sized human with a gallon-sized personality it's just and you i mean you have to be i was i was interviewing amanda evans who was just now retired as a one-star general in the air force and the same thing she's this petite woman you know blonde hair comes across as very sweet and

5:43 kind but i'm like you have to have that tiger personality to to make up for that for that dimmy native size yes oh absolutely my husband who's a bigger man says don't be afraid of me be afraid of her so uh it's that that adage of don't confuse kindness with weakness i had frequently in my positions because you know i wanted to stay my authentic self and sometimes that does come across as oh well maybe she's just too kind and she doesn't have a backbone but they learned that wasn't the case so that was your junior year in college when you started to understand about the rotc part of it or did you start to understand about the rotc part of it or did you start to

6:19 understand about the rotc part of it or did you start to understand about the rotc part yes the last two years is when i got the scholarship to do rotc okay so there's a lot of kids that are interested in the military and a lot of them think well all i can do is just enlist in the army and that's and that's the the path for me can you explain what rotc actually is and how that supplement your college programs absolutely rotc is is a commissioning source that allows individuals that are pursuing a degree uh you could you can do it as early as freshman year up through really junior year for a scholarship uh they pay for for school there is a contract that you would uh have on the other side but they they teach you all the basics of basically like

7:01 that 11 bravo that infantryman uh of what it's like to be in the army at least rotc you can do any branch but specifically as an as an army cadet i learned about the basics of being in the military they really coach you uh to stand out in leadership and to make decisions be decisive definitely came out of my comfort zone with that one um but then you know you can commission after duty or reserve so people that want to still be connected that don't want to go full time they can do reserves uh but if you want to go full time like i did then you would sign a contract usually it's four years long uh you come out you're a second lieutenant which uh for some

7:43 maybe pay-wise isn't where their peers would be but the experience is you know i've been to korea and hawaii and and gone to some you know fun assignments that you wouldn't get necessarily if you were in corporate america when i first joined as a second lieutenant in 2000 second

08:00 The Pay Cut to Become a Second Lieutenant

8:01 lieutenant pay was 1997 a month it was a big pay cut for me because i was a medic i was a medic at a trauma center and on my days off i was a waiter at a fine dining steakhouse so it was a it was a pretty significant cut for me to to join but my goodness the experiences they gave you and the responsibilities they put upon you on those young ages particularly in the army you're developing skills so much faster than the typical uh civilian corporate america job that how do we how do we tell kids hey it might be a little bit of a monetary sacrifice in the beginning but but in the end think of all the opportunities that you've had i i agree i if i could instill a policy that every

8:50 21 year old from 18 to 21 you spend some time in the military whether it's enlisted or officer i i never appreciated the enlisted side my husband started off that way and then became an officer so he does but the confidence that you get the skill sets the diversity i grew up in a little town in new hampshire i was around all white people i didn't know what diversity was we had one haitian uh family and that was as much as i was exposed to so ford hood texas uh when it was fort hood at the time that's our first duty station so i had a lot of diversity kids from all over the country and that samir those are valuable um skill sets and experiences you just aren't normally going to get yeah i you're absolutely right there's so many times that

9:41 for instance i went to school university of hawaii and i always thought that i lived in a diverse culture growing up in the seattle tacoma area we have a lot of asian americans particularly from and we have a lot of the southeast asia area samoan and so i always thought oh yeah i'm in a diverse area but when i went to university of hawaii and it switched over to the haole the haole population being you know probably more in the 10 realm that's when i really had an appreciation for what it was like to treat everybody equally and and understanding those differences so when you graduated through the rotc program what was your first job when you graduated from the university of new hampshire you said okay i don't know

10:21 i think i might have mentioned to this to you but i had a little twist i unfortunately being 21 although rgc did teach me a lot of responsibility i was still young minded and i went through the nursing program but unfortunately did not realize the n-class which is the board-certified exam you have to take to be a nurse is a skill all in itself and unfortunately i didn't take the right prep course and so i took the test twice i didn't pass it i ended up being very frustrated didn't want to be a nurse didn't want to be in the military and i just wanted to hide under a rock for a little while but uh my pan asked the

11:00 Failing the Nursing Boards — Twice

11:03 professional military specialist whatever we call those that are run the artificer program he said okay just go do your thing we'll get we'll look towards you know medical special team uh msc that can that can be you know nasalka or reserve so i ended up I was trying to think of what I wanted to do with my life now. I actually thought about being a flight attendant because my dad was real big in those kinds of trades. But I was short. And so I really... Are you not tall enough to be a flight attendant? Was tall enough for the smaller planes, but not for like the big United plane. I never thought about that. I know. I don't know if it's changed, but flat footed, you had to have a certain reach.

11:43 And I didn't need like that criteria area. But my best friend at the time, she worked for a financial company. And so I ended up going that route for a little while. That's where I got into getting my series six and being in the retirement division within the company. And I actually really liked it, was enjoying myself. I thought the army actually forgot about me. I was on my way to briefings. And then it was almost a year later that my ROTC leadership called me and said, Jodi, you're going to go after duty. And I was like, oh. Okay. I was like, as medical specialty at court. And he said, no, transportation. And I audibly laughed because I said at the time, I didn't even know how to put gas in my car.

12:34 And this is 1998, which, you know, GPS wasn't really a thing. And I'm like, I had to get around. Like, this is like, this is comical. And so after I went through the five stages of grief, I put my big girl pants on and off I went to OVC. At Fort Eustis, Virginia, and, uh, and ended up getting into the logistic world, I met my husband, which, you know, I'm forever grateful that that kind of turn of events led me to him. But, uh, then I went down to Fort hood and had my first, uh, platoon, which. As you have mentioned my petite size, I had, I was supporting an infantry battalion with all men. Um, a lot of my battalion. Uh, or my platoon was all men and here was little, um, Jody who is, you know,

13:31 trying to figure her way around. And my company commander was very much a, um, he did not want me to be a female. I remember walking in. This is funny. I walked in to my first day of PT, physical training at, you know, zero 600 and I don't know what I was thinking because I had done ROTC, but. I, for some reason, I thought I could have my hair in a ponytail.

14:00 Leading an All-Male Infantry Platoon

14:00 This is, you know, back when you couldn't. And I walk on in and I'm like, I'm here for a day date. And he, uh, we're on a podcast. So curse, but he was like, what the S Lieutenant, are you doing with your hair in a ponytail, fix yourself? And I looked. And so I fixed myself and he, I remember having conversations. He's like, Jody, you can't look like a girl. You gotta, you gotta kind of be a little bit rougher cause you got these infantry men and I need you. To get all these things done. And he, there were some things that just had been, you know, not going well in the platoon. So yeah, I had to definitely use my personality for good and, you know, for getting stuff done.

14:45 It sounds like he actually cared and it was, it wasn't kind of, it was, it wasn't this chauvinistic you're a woman. It sounds like he was trying to set you up for success. 100%. He's my, he's probably my favorite boss. He was, he was caring, but he was. He knew what I was up against and he wanted me to succeed. And so the only thing that we differed with that, I think he had great intention is he wanted me to kind of change my authenticness of who I was. And that wasn't, uh, that didn't bow well for me. I just needed to be able to, to be who I was and let the way my style flourish. And so, but, but he really just wanted me to, to understand that there were some challenges.

15:40 And if I wanted to be successful that I kind of had to, um, rise above. And so how long were you in the transportation world before you made the switch? Well, I was technically transportation for six years. I did six years, but a couple of them were in protocol. So I did the platoon time and then I was an S one, which is personnel. And then I went to division and was their support, uh, officer for the division. I actually did really well as a transportation officer. It was, you know, I was, I, well, yeah, I went to Korea and I was a, um, a detachment commander. I was all up and down Korea with all of our, uh, transportation assets. I was, I was actually, you know, doing well and liking it.

16:29 Uh, I think that after, you know, now we, we, we. We kind of got into Afghanistan and the whole nine 11 and things are starting to shift. And, uh, I was coming out of, of Korea. My husband was fiance at the time. He had said, you know, Jody, if you go back to a transportation unit, you're going to get deployed. You know, maybe this is a good time to transition a little bit. And he was able to tell me about a protocol position. He's like your personality, you'd be great. And so you was US Army Pacific, they had a protocol position and I was kind

17:00 US Army Pacific — The Protocol Position

17:04 of. Fearless and ruthless. And I left all kinds of messages on the bosses, on her voicemail. And so like, well, you were very persistent. So, um, let's take you on board. And, uh, and I loved it. It was great. You know, I got exposed to a lot and you know, it's, it's Sarah depth, Sarah depth, Sarah, indefinite, how things work out because, uh, this is kind of how I circled back into the medical world where I was supporting, uh, the us Asian military medicine. Uh, conference, however they say it. And the geo was a nurse. And so at the time I didn't realize that I just said, thought she was a geo for his general officer, which is important. But I had mentioned to her that I was a nurse because she said something.

17:53 And, uh, of course she was all confused on why it was protocol. And so long story short, she said, come talk to me in, uh, in my office when we get back. And at that time I was kind of looking at like, do I get out? What do I want to do? I didn't think with everything going on in the world, maybe staying transportation isn't the right thing for me anymore. And was, was kind of in that period of what, what did I want to do next? So she said, Jody, you know, I, she was a chief of the nurse corps. So if you had a lot of pull, she said, you pass your nursing boards and I will branch transfer you to the, to the, uh, nurse corps. And I was like, you are kidding me.

18:32 Like, this is, this is crazy that this opportunity was coming out of mind. You had been out of. For six years. Six years. Yeah. Uh, I was like, all right, we got to pass the test. So I ended up taking Kaplan, which I recommend to anybody who needs to have a structured plan, which is what I needed. I was smart. I just didn't understand the test. So I ended up passing with flying colors. All was great. I contacted general major general Gail Pollack, who I'm forever grateful for. Gave me her cell number. I called her and I was like, ma'am, I passed. She's like, okay, fantastic. So fast forward. She ended up. Uh, breast trans. So I passed my test. Uh, I took my test October 10th.

19:12 I passed it, or I found out October 15th and I was sworn in on January 6th. The of 20, 2005. That was it. That works so fast. You know, this leads into my next question about the power of mentorship. Would you, do you consider her the most powerful mentor who was the most powerful mentor during this whole path to get back to nursing? She was definitely a instrumental. I wouldn't say that. It turned out to be the most powerful mentor. And the three that stick in my head for my career, uh, was one captain at the time. Simon's guard, Craig Simon's guard, who was my company commander, who went on to be a Colonel and retired out of. Transportation. And then second would be major general Gail Pollack.

19:57 Who. Really. Taught me that there. where there's a will there's a way and and she would make it happen and then the third one which is quite funny is so during the time she had to work with you know hrc to be able to uh get this transfer done and so this was at the time lieutenant colonel anna carulli who was cursing my name because she was like who is this like captain that we have to be able to transfer so quickly what is going on well then she ends up being my boss at what not as a as my first assignment as a nurse but my second and so when we made that connection she's like you better make it so i don't regret doing this for you because i guess she had her jump do some serious

20:42 heaps to make it happen and she ended up being the third mentor who really just was there because i was a captain who had some leadership skills but in the medical world it's a it was a little bit different and and so she was just really instrumental in helping me grow as a as a medical leader so did any of those three people have a chance to attend your retirement ceremony so sadly i know you're probably going to curse me i did not have a retirement ceremony i i had a lot of plaque for this but the timing wasn't great and i felt like i had had all of my my promotions that were you know kind of over the top or you know there was a lot of gratitude with those and and i really felt like i

21:36 was able to thing the folks i needed to and my change of command is where i added in those that were you know pretty powerful for for my career and being able to shape me and and and be the the mentors that i needed you know throughout my career okay i won't be too hard on you because i know that your husband lived overseas yeah and so you didn't have that immediate family here that it's always been here to be part of that so I won't give you a hard time thank you you're welcome all right now I want to talk about grit and purpose you deployed to Iraq as a brigade nurse for 15 months I've never deployed from 15 months the longest I've gone is the longest I've gone

22:22 is six months the army is just a completely different animal than we are in the air force talk tell us 15 months what was what was that like well it wasn't great I funny enough I thought I thought it out because my husband was deploying and we didn't have kids and thought you know what better way than to deploy together so initially there wasn't an opportunity and then sadly the brigade nurse that is supposed to deploy he they found out in one of his exam physical exams that he had some sort of heart conditioning footage so then I got the call and and so I was excited at first and then when I found out it was 15 months of it he's serious so and then of course I do I am supporting Steve's brigade but he's the one

23:10 battalion that's not at the in the same location and and that was that was awesome but uh brigade nurse was actually probably one of the funnest jobs that I had because I had such autonomy to be able to impact in that the brigade and in the army so I was excited at first and then when I found out that I was in the community but it is a mental mind game it really you have got to wake up trying to just yeah look at like what am I going to impact today because if you start thinking about all the rest of the days all the holidays you will it will not be well and honestly one of the things that I started doing was looking at my bacon cow I was like okay we are saving money like something

23:51 to distract me to find good and you know what I was what I was doing uh because I I like money but anyway and then really just trying to figure out what I could do to impact the area like what else needed to be done the brigade uh nurse that I replaced she was not very involved and was was really kind of not utilizing the the role as well as it could be so I was able to kind of stay busy and and do a lot of things that I felt was necessary for the mission was she just kind of a behind the desk type of leader the person he replaced I think so I don't I just don't think that she looked for opportunity you know vaccines was one of the big things for us and the soldiers were were tired I noticed like our rate initially

24:43 weren't great and they were being expected to come to the clinic after their shifts and they're tired and I'm like well why are they coming to us let's pack up our vaccines we can do it like make sure that the cold chain Management is accurate and we'll go to them we'll figure out when they're you know coming back from their

25:00 Soldiers Coming Back From Deployment

25:00 their mission we'll get them all at once and then they can go to sleep though our numbers came up like super fast I was just trying to be mindful of of why things weren't working out and then what could I do to to make it easier and better um yeah kind of goes back to some of those logistic skills you're you're mentioning right you're doing process improvement and making it more efficient for for the soldiers which I imagine would increase morale for these guys and gals that are constantly going going outside the wire yes how many folks were you caring for on this location base if you want to call it that's a good question how many was there it was thousands I don't know if we I don't

25:45 know why five sticks in my mind I don't know that it was that many there was a lot though yeah and then I would fly out to where Steve was at purely just for the mission of course I'm not to see my husband because I also would teach BLS too so I would basic life support yes so I would get the medics recertified on on you know their their training uh so I would I would go out to the other outside um bases to be able to support those we talk about the 15 months and that's obviously a long time away from home and a tremendous sacrifice but what I try to tell kids today is the resilience piece I I say look some of the experiences in my life that I look back on

26:32 time I'm like oh my God this sucks this this is horrible and what why am I doing this but looking back on it when you're in those situations you develop a bond and a relationship with those folks that you're with that uh they're friends for life what about you did you develop any sort of friendships out there while you're out there for 15 months absolutely and and I think beyond the deployment I think what that's what the military does that's different than anywhere else is that you will put in multiple situations all the time and you have a give two choices you can either fall down and go in the fetal position and call it a day or you can you know push through get that grit why am I

27:16 doing this and text yourself and that is that's truly the probably the the piece of the military that's almost it's hard to put into words because it it just builds your character your your sense of confidence your sense of of being able to do things that you did not think you're capable of doing and I I remember coming home and uh going to take a shower and go to like use the restroom for the first time without having to put on like full battle rattled and you know have all of you know my weapon and everything and you just appreciate life you appreciate you know that what you've done and just being able to live in a world where you can put in such difficult situations be around people that would literally die for you and then come

28:13 back to a world where it's like i can freely just go do what i want to do it's you know it's hard to put into words sometimes i i know that you don't have kids but do any of your uh siblings have children do you have nieces and nephews and yeah the only ones that i really am close closer with is steve's brothers two girls okay um 14 16. the reason i ask is that i feel like we've become like these helicopter parents and we're just too coddling and you know that standard everybody gets a trophy everybody gets recognized everybody i get the intent behind it but at the same time how are you how are we developing resilience and grit uh you know in sports my coach used to yell

28:58 at me and make me run and do the do all these things and now i don't i don't even know if you would be able to coach that way anymore yeah i just i feel like we've kind of over corrected absolutely and because i don't have kids i'm mindful that even my friends because i do have you know now with with um people having kids later in life i have friends that are that you know five-year-old and if i see parents that are tough on their kids or or saying you know that's a life lesson you learned today i make sure that i commend them that i say good job like that is hard to do and you're gonna raise a phenomenal adult because you you have to i i don't know why we kind of we we swing the pendulum

29:43 we're really not good as humans as making small course corrections we seem to go way far on the other side when something isn't going well and that is absolutely created we people we like we have got to be able to to be resilient yeah to rise up and uh

30:00 Resilience — Rising Up After Every Hit

30:05 if if we don't get back there then i'm i'm scared for the future of our military my dad talks about he's like what is the future of our military going to look like if we can't be tough on them well we're having difficulty in the recruiting ranks of finding kids that can meet the physical standards of some of these more strenuous jobs special forces you know rings though it rings a bell you know navy seals all these type of very uh athletic folks to go through these scenarios i mean we're having a hard time i mean we're having a hard time we're having a hard time we're having a trouble recruiting into those into those jobs because a lot of these sports are going away and

30:40 like i said everybody gets a trophy but um you come home from your 15 months overseas and then you've had a chance to lead multiple medical clinics um aberdeen up here in in maryland tripler san antonio what was your leadership philosophy in balancing compassion mission and accountability yeah i think that i learned one thing that's really important is to share your leadership philosophy with your people i think it's really important for your people to understand you if you want somebody to follow you then they need to understand how you think how you act what are things that get you excited what are things that frustrate you uh and the more transparent you can be then they they understand

31:29 kind of where to where to um where you're coming from but i was always big on empowering and making people be uncomfortable like i want you i can give you the answer but i want you to go figure it out you guys go do your thing i'm here to support you i don't want to make the decisions that you're capable of making and i don't want a self a mediocre like we are not in this to be average so we're always like we always had goals we're always gonna get somewhere we're going somewhere we're not just going to do our job and i treated like the billion dollar group i worked for a visit the same way I treated my military. Like I included them in everything. I made them part of the decision-making.

32:17 It was important that there was unity, you know, among, because once I got into the medical world, there was a lot more civilians that I was exposed to. So it was really important. And I wanted to, I didn't do this initially, but one of the things I started to do as I kind of became more mature in my leadership was to show vulnerability. Vulnerability. I think as a leader, they need to understand that you're human and you put on your pants the same way that they do. And when you do that, I think that does, that helps them feel more comfortable to share. Engagement was a huge piece of my leadership philosophy. I mean, my last command, I had, you know, 800 folks all up and down the East Coast.

33:00 I was on a plane every other week because I needed to be in front of my people. I needed them to see me, even if it was for an hour, but at least I had eyes on them. I could walk and feel and, you know, be in the moment for a little bit. That's probably caring and engagement are the two biggest things that I think really were the top things that people would say about me. Which brings me to my next question. Looking back on your time in the Army, what was your proudest moment in uniform? Ooh, proudest moment. Oh, that's a good question. I would, I don't know if I'd say it was my proudest, but I'll say it was my most challenging, which maybe the way I handle it could be my proudest.

33:54 So it's interesting what things stick in your brain. But what comes to mind is when I was in battalion command, unfortunately, we lost a soldier to suicide. And that was, oh, it wasn't, it was also kind of a big deal. There was a task force involved. Like we thought he was still alive, like it was a big deal, like it was on the news and everything. It was, it wasn't just like we found out he, you know, died. And so I think the way I handled that and the impact that it had on me, on the staff, on the soldiers, I think that that was a very trying time. And that could have, that could have went a really bad way. And I think I'm proud of the way that I was able to deal with it,

34:46 the way that we kind of agreed. We've through together the way I interacted with his family. Just, I think all of that was something that, although not positive, I think that's what makes the military so wonderful is that you,

35:00 Being Exposed to Everything as a Leader

35:00 you are exposed to everything. There are no limits to what you're exposed to and they don't prepare you for that necessarily, but indirectly you are prepared for that because you're taught, you know, divert, not diversity, adversity, and like how to overcome tough things. And that was something that was super tough. And, um, I, that's kind of what stands up for me. Yeah. It seems as obviously the event itself is something that you would never wish happens to anyone, but your team came together. I mean, it created a little bit of a bond. Like you said, that grieving process, that must have been such a welcoming comfort to have a leader that they know that they can come to and have these, you know,

35:48 discuss these, these grieving issues. Exactly. I think that, um, you know, sometimes you're, you, you don't always know why you're put in the position you are, but I, you know, people have said that they couldn't have thought of any other commander that would've, you know, been the right person for that, you know, situation. That's gotta make you feel good. It was, I mean, it was super, super tough and you know, it's, it's heartbreaking, but if it had to happen, I'm glad that I was able to be there for them and, and kind of endure that kind of hurt together. Well, now we, we transitioned to your, to your follow on career here. You've recently had a social media post where you're talking about, you described

36:32 your transition from the army as rolling hills, not a cliff. What were some of those hills emotionally, mentally, or professionally? Yeah. It, and what's interesting is when you're in uniform, you just can't understand it. It, it, it truly can only be understood when you go through it and. Muck. I 100% was running to retire. I, you know, I actually was going to retire coming out of Italian command and I, I had a great, another great boss and due to his leadership stayed through, you know, my colonel years, but I had been in an organization for 26 years where I thought that, okay, I, I, I did my time. It was great. And now I'm gonna just, you know, go to my next adventure and I've learned a lot.

37:27 I wouldn't have changed. I wouldn't have changed anything. And then I kind of just starting to feel like, okay, wow, I'm, I'm really don't need to wear a uniform anymore. And then like, okay, what do I do with my next chapter? And then I was like, okay, I gotta have a plan. I've always had a plan. I've, I've always had to do something. And so I started to feel like I was spiraling into this expectation that I needed to continue to do something, you know, extra, not extravagant, but, um, you know, just. Yeah. Very striving. Right. Keep going. And while people don't intend to, there are people that are, you know, they're like, oh, you're gonna be great. Oh, are you gonna go, you know, lead a, a top hospital?

38:14 Are you gonna go, you know, everybody thinks you're just gonna be this, you know, over the top leader of something. And, and so that's kind of where I felt that I needed to, to go was like, I gotta continue to go 150 miles an hour. I've had a chance to meet a lot of people, like we were discussing earlier through my camera, through. Yeah. Membership through flying missions all over the world and some, some small businesses, some motivational speakers that I've chatted with over the last few months, they said that senior military leaders, just senior military as in like, you know, you're getting closer to that 20 year mark, not, not seniors based on rank, but senior based on time, time and service.

38:55 They said that professional athletes and senior military leaders create these amazing organizations because they're. They're looking for that next challenge. They've had this identity, the uniform being the identity, the professional athlete, their sport being their identity. And when they walk away, there's such, there's such a hole to fill. Right. Uh, so when you, when you had that post, I thought to myself, I wanted to reach out to you so bad and, and I, and I know I did, but, um, because I, I know what you're going through. And like you said, not everybody understands that. Not anybody, not everybody has. Committed themselves to so many years to one particular career.

39:41 It's not a job. It's a career. And I think folks that have a career is just, it's a totally different disconnect when it's time to transition then having a job. Right. So you joined hiring our heroes and that ended you up at Northwestern mutual, mutual Northwestern mutual, which is obviously a big pivot from being in the medical career field, particularly in the military.

40:00 Iraq — 15 Months and 800 Soldiers

40:06 Yeah. What was that? What was that learning curve like for someone coming out of a career field, divine by design by order and structure, and now it's, Hey, we're going to give you these box of skills and certificates and then here you go. Right. What was that like? Yeah, it definitely. Well, funny enough, you're a male, so you won't a hundred percent appreciate this as women do, but just the mere fact of having to get ready in the morning became much different. Putting your hair in a bun and throwing a uniform on is really easy. Shh. Having to take out an athlete to your hair like that in itself was a transition. So, uh, that was, uh, that was something that was, you know, not easy at first.

40:48 I was like, why can't we just all have uniforms? But that's not how it works. I, I was, first of all, I am a bit advocate of hiring our heroes. Anybody that is looking to be able to transition, they're a great, a skills bridge program to go with because they allow their program allows you to be exposed to a lot of. Companies. So I did go with a Northwestern mutual. They, they were great during the fellowship program. I was able to study for my exams and I think, you know, when I explained earlier that I was in the financial community for a little while before I went in the military, I was like, oh, I really have loved helping people with money. So being a financial advisor seems like a great pivot and, you know, studying for the exams, I'm used to being in school.

41:37 I got a few degrees, you know, I'm not a stranger to school. And I, I enjoyed that piece, but it was so nice that I could wake up and not set the alarm and I could study at 10 at night if I wanted. And that was fine. And then I get in so that I'm passing everything. I'm like, okay, I'm great. And I, and I kind of had that I'm on this high, right. Cause there's a girl in green and then I go into training. And so I really, I quickly realized that corporate America is a lot like the military. It really, in the sense that, you know, you were least what I was experiencing. And then I realized there was this, this force, you know, my co-скую with the American Conservatives right.

42:31 It was really hard for me because I was trying to figure out what the game was, what the game was and, and, you know, I, I had a lot of videos of people, you know, investing in the United States that were trading capital, that were making close 100 million dollars and then going and saying, Hey, guys, what is the best way for people to put money on the trade? And I'm like, what's good for me? And I'm like, okay, well, you know what? there was lots of goals and I'm very competitive. So I found myself working more hours than I was working before. And I was up at five in the morning. I just felt like I was going even faster than I was in the military and realized that I worked really hard in the military to be able to

43:03 retire from the military to not have to do this. If I wanted to do it, that's one thing. But I realized that it wasn't what I wanted to do and wanted to stop forcing myself to make decisions. Like it's okay not to have a plan. It's okay to not decide anything for a little while. And when I came to that realization, it's almost as if my 93 pound body became like 50 pounds. Yeah. I just felt a lot lighter. I was like, okay, we've made great financial decisions. We were in a spot where I was in a spot where I was in a spot where I was in a spot where I was in a spot where I was in like, I can, you know, I get a retirement check. I get VA, I get, you know, enough money

43:47 that I can and be saved. I'm like, I don't need to do this. Why am I, you know, running myself into the ground when I can, I can actually pause. And so that's when I decided. And I think that that's something that's really important for people to know is when you are in the military, and although you may not think you're going to make a career, act as though you are and then save yourself. money like put yourself in a situation so when you get to that point and you're still in your 40s and you can say i don't know that i want to work right now because a lot of people as you know unfortunately they have to work and so that's a that's it was nice to be able to say i don't

44:28 have to work and so now i am pausing and breathing well i wanted to give you kudos on the series 7. so many folks don't realize how difficult that testing is and how much you have to study for that test i i studied for geez i feel like a couple months before i actually took the exam and then the exam itself was three or four hours long i mean it's it's a really stressful environment i was fortunate enough to pass on my first time as you were on yours but i imagine there was folks in your community that did not pass that on their first time because absolutely yeah it's a very difficult test so that just that's just a testament to your work ethic because that is

45:00 The Hardest Test and the Work Ethic Behind It

45:04 that's stressful so yeah i mean you just jump through a bunch of hoops and then decide that you're not going to do it but that's okay right i mean there's so many things we do in our lives that we have this goal in mind and once we accomplish that goal we realize oh it's not as satisfying as i as i thought it would be so i i felt a similar way i after my series seven i'm working at a financial institution and uh it just happened to be 2008. and so everything is crashing around us economically speaking particularly in the housing market i'm like oh my gosh what have i done with my life and i'm like well you know I done? I walked away from flying airplanes to go be this, this financial advisor, you know,

45:46 collecting unemployment. I'm working 14 hour days. My wife saying that I was gone more doing the finance thing than I was flying missions all over the world. So it was really hard to say that, you know, maybe this isn't, maybe this isn't for me. Not that I couldn't do it. It's just that maybe this just isn't for me. So good on you for recognizing that at such an early stage in that, in that career change. Well, thank you for that. And I, and I had a lot of conversations with myself because my personality is I don't like to disappoint people. And I think that was one of the hardest things was to, to put out into the universe that I changed my mind because I also

46:28 didn't want to come across as indecisive or, you know, lazy or, you know, something else that people might construe as negative. But instead, I had overwhelming support and positivity to say, that was strong of you to do that. And, and I really felt, you know, pretty, it was very gratifying to know, okay. And, and if nothing else, I wanted to say, it's okay. Like you said, because I think that there are people that feel like they have to have it all together. They have to figure it out. And when you're helping somebody with your money, their money, when there's like, you're not charging them, you're out of your own kindness. It's a very different situation that when you're managing a

47:17 portfolio and you've gotten their, you know, you're responsible for all their assets, that's a little different. And I think I underestimated really kind of what that ship was going to look like. I felt terrible. I was so hard on myself. I kept thinking, thinking to myself, oh, I'm failing. I'm disappointing my family. I'm disappointing my friends because I wanted to do this. But once again, that resilience piece and looking back at those times now, I think to myself, yeah, it was hard. It sucked, but it allowed me to have financial acumen to train my airmen. As I progressed as a senior leader, they would come in asking questions about life insurance or

48:00 TSP, or at the time we had some like voluntary separation bonus. There was, there was things that the military was doing. And then the military just recently changed to that different retirement plan. Yeah. The blended retirement, uh, system, but a retirement plan. And as a, uh, and as a senior leader, I'm not allowed to provide that financial advice of, Hey, stick with the old plan, go with the new plan, which just hurt me so much inside. Cause I wanted to say the government never changes anything in your favor. It's always in their favor. But as a senior leader, I had to, you know, just command and explain and show the PowerPoint presentations. But yeah, I just had multiple conversations about finance and Hey, car

48:43 loans. And. Yeah. Why would you want to get a car loan? If you could do this or, you know, why would you rent something extravagant for $3,000 a month when you could get a mortgage for $2,000 a month? And just, so just having all those conversations, I look back and say, okay, it wasn't a failure. It was a personal at the time. It felt like a personal failure, but in the end it worked out to be another tool in my toolbox to allow me to mentor the youth. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, so where are we going? Where's next for Jodi? Well, so funny enough, I, Steve was a general's aid to, uh, Lieutenant general, uh, Rick Lynch. He was, he ended up being the installation commander, um, before he retired and Steve's was his aid. And so

49:30 he's, he's like one of them. Now, my recent mentors, he and I, after he saw my coast, he's like, thank you. Need some mentoring Jodi. And so I talked to him and he's like, Jodi, you know, cause I hadn't mentioned what I wanted to do. And, and he's like, I was gonna support you, but I thought you might've been rushing into things. And I'm really happy to hear that you decided to, to pause. And so he, yeah. And he told me, he's like, no decisions don't make any decisions right now. No more. And, uh, and, and so from a work

50:00 Life After the Uniform — Can't Sit Still

50:02 perspective, I'm not gonna make any decisions, but I can't necessarily just sit still. So I do have the GI bill that I haven't used all of because I did get my doctorate, but I, I did it. You know, quickly. So I still have a couple of years left and, uh, I will go back to school cuz we doesn't need another degree and I'm gonna do finance. So it's fine. So, so the, so the kids out there, I want the kids out there to think about this. Okay. Little Jodi joins the military, right? Goes through ROTC, joins the military, gets her undergraduate degree, gets her master's degree, gets her nurse practitioner, doctorate degree, finance, seven series, six, all these and, and two masters. So why do not more people wanna join the military?

50:54 I'm like, I know the opportunities that they have provided you. Yes. It's just, I, I know I will stand on every hill. Yes. And say the military hands down was the best decision I ever made in my life. Oh, best decision. 100%. If I, and I, people have, you know, the way that I have been in the military, many people think like I always, always wanted to make this a career, but I didn't. I mean, I really, until I became a nurse practitioner, I be getting out. And so what I did at every turn of when my contract was up is I said, what is it that I want to do? And is it, and is the military or the civilian sector, which one's gonna give me the opportunity to do that the best. And every time it was like,

51:42 well, the civilian sector, isn't gonna do X, Y, Z. Like the military is gonna give me the opportunity to go overseas. Give me the opportunity to go to schools. Give me opportunity to keep educating me from a leadership perspective, getting, putting me in situations that I'm uncomfortable. Every position I've had, I didn't know what I was doing and no position they gave me. They're like, oh, Jody, this is a really easy one. You're gonna sit back and just coast. No, I had to like fix everything. So, I mean, it's one of those things that I'm, I'm right there with you. I wish we could put our brain into somebody else and let them get a 20 second reel of our lives in the military and show them what they could be getting. Because when I was

52:26 in school, I got paid, got a six figure salary. Cause I was a major to go to Brad school. Where else do you ever get that? Uh, I had a hundred thousand dollar degree. Pretty sure that's how much it costs, you know, for them to send me and still got paid. Yeah. Then I yeah. Doctorate see there's that financial acumen right there. Oh, well I can quit my job and then go to grad school. Okay, great. So you're gonna quit your income. You're gonna stop your job. You're gonna go add a hundred thousand dollars more in debt while you're not generating income. So by the time it's all done, you could be $200,000 in the hole. And if w what's the, what, you know, what's the ROI on that? Right. I mean like, okay, well I was making a hundred

53:12 thousand dollars a year and this new job is gonna make me 125. Right. So it's gonna take eight years. Yeah. Great. Why, why does that make, why does that make financial sense? Yes. So it's interesting. So we've got soldier. Yes. Nurse leader, financial advisor. Now that you're on a new path, what does purpose mean to you today? There's um, four and off the top of my head, I can't remember the name of it, but it's from success to significance. And it's about being in a career that you, you were very successful and in everything you did was to get to an end point. Uh, and then the next chapter is really about significance of like, what is it that you wanna do on your terms?

54:00 Cuz I did a lot of greatness in the military, but it wasn't always on my terms and then that's okay. That was part of the deal. So, so really for me, I, I, I wanna make sure that whatever I'm doing and I don't know what that's gonna look like, but I would just wanna feel good about it. Uh, there's, I have a lot of love for animals. I would love to, to give back in, in that arena. I love the, you know, special Olympics, special needs from my. Brother, you know, giving back in that arena. So I, I really just wanna do something that is, is about just giving back and, and, and do it more from not, not necessarily tying money to it cuz that, that can change kind of things a little bit, but really just being able to,

54:47 and to say, you know, I, I, unfortunately there are people that get out of the military that don't have a good, you know, story to share. And, and I definitely wanna make sure that I continue to share my story and the great experience that, that I've had and, you know,

55:00 Sharing Her Story and Paying It Forward

55:04 make sure that those that are growing up in the world have, you know, have the knowledge because I think sometimes we just don't always know what's out there and being able to share that is important to me. When I think of purpose, I, I think the secret to happiness is a purpose driven life. And the fact that if you can find a way to serve others above yourself, beyond yourself, I, I think it creates a level of happiness that people just don't, they don't recognize anymore. Whether that's serving in your church, you know, we, we continue to talk about the military, but I mean, you being a nurse, once again, that's a, that's a profession that's serving others that I, I think so many people find

55:46 happiness in. So let me close with this. If you could go back and speak to that young Jodi, just starting ROTC at the University of New Hampshire, what would you tell her about the journey ahead? Be patient. The journey is just that. It is uh, not necessarily a straight line from A to B. There's going to be left turns and right turns. You're gonna go over hills. You're gonna go around, you know, sharp turns. Uh, but at each pivotal point, you'll learn something and then you'll move on. You'll learn something new and keep reflecting as you go through your journey, because. Each of it is teaching you something that's gonna prepare you for that next point of life and have

56:36 fun along the way. I, I think it's really important to, you know, that, that saying, smell the roses. You, you gotta be able to just stop being present in the moment and enjoy it. Learn from it. Even your bad days, learn why they're your bad days. Embrace your good days and just know that trust God. He has a plan. You gotta believe it. Uh, even when you don't understand it. So from the battlefield to the boardroom and back to the drawing boards, I truly believe that you are reminding us that service isn't uniform. It's a mindset. 100%. And so I want to thank you so much for coming to chat with us today. Thank you. Cause I truly believe there's, there's a young boy or girl out there that's struggling on what

57:25 that path's gonna be. And hopefully our conversation today provides them a realization that the military, and just service in general is a, is a great opportunity. Absolutely. So thank you, Jodi. Thank you for having me.