He Led Hundreds of Thousands. Then Everything Stopped

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00:00 Introduction — 40 Years to a Quiet Room

0:03 What happens when the highest ranking What happens when the highest ranking enlisted voice in the National Guard enlisted voice in the National Guard enlisted voice in the National Guard suddenly doesn't have a mission anymore? suddenly doesn't have a mission anymore? suddenly doesn't have a mission anymore? After more than 40 years of service, After more than 40 years of service, After more than 40 years of service, from security forces to advising the from security forces to advising the from security forces to advising the Chief of National Guard Bureau, Tony Chief of National Guard Bureau, Tony Chief of National Guard Bureau, Tony Whitehead helped shape decisions

0:17 Whitehead helped shape decisions Whitehead helped shape decisions affecting hundreds of thousands of affecting hundreds of thousands of affecting hundreds of thousands of service members. But this isn't a service members. But this isn't a service members. But this isn't a conversation about medals or titles. conversation about medals or titles. conversation about medals or titles. It's about identity, purpose, and what It's about identity, purpose, and what It's about identity, purpose, and what leadership looks like when [music] the leadership looks like when [music] the leadership looks like when [music] the uniform comes off. We talk about uniform comes off. We talk about uniform comes off. We talk about retirement, about humility at the retirement, about humility at the retirement, about humility at the highest levels of power, [music] and

0:32 highest levels of power, [music] and highest levels of power, [music] and about the quiet reality many leaders about the quiet reality many leaders about the quiet reality many leaders face when the spotlight disappears. face when the spotlight disappears. face when the spotlight disappears. [music] This isn't a history lesson, it's a conversation about service after it's a conversation about service after service. service. service. I'm Mike Camorosa, this I'm Mike Camorosa, this I'm Mike Camorosa, this is Voices for Valor. is Voices for Valor. is Voices for Valor. >> [music] >> Thank you for having me. It's really >> Thank you for having me. It's really It's a a privilege to be here. And I got It's a a privilege to be here. And I got It's a a privilege to be here. And I got to tell you now, I'm going to slip up

1:04 to tell you now, I'm going to slip up to tell you now, I'm going to slip up and call you sir every now and again and call you sir every now and again and call you sir every now and again because because because >> Don't do it. >> Don't do it. >> Don't do it. Word actually It's It's hard. It's Word actually It's It's hard. It's Word actually It's It's hard. It's really hard. But I'm excited to be here really hard. But I'm excited to be here really hard. But I'm excited to be here and and the the brand that you carried, and and the the brand that you carried, and and the the brand that you carried, I could not be more humble to be a part

1:15 I could not be more humble to be a part I could not be more humble to be a part of it. of it. of it. Well, I'm so honored to have you on the Well, I'm so honored to have you on the Well, I'm so honored to have you on the show today and I do the same thing, you show today and I do the same thing, you show today and I do the same thing, you know, working for General Sasserville, know, working for General Sasserville, know, working for General Sasserville, even though we're we're retired and out even though we're we're retired and out even though we're we're retired and out of uniform, I'm still calling him sir at of uniform, I'm still calling him sir at of uniform, I'm still calling him sir at work. So So I understand.

1:28 work. So So I understand. work. So So I understand. But let's start off with When you look But let's start off with When you look But let's start off with When you look back across your life before rank, back across your life before rank, back across your life before rank, before titles before titles before titles how do you define service? Wow. It's It's one of those things where Wow. It's It's one of those things where to me service is to me service is to me service is using the background that you you have using the background that you you have using the background that you you have and you've had and put it into put it and you've had and put it into put it

1:48 and you've had and put it into put it into put it into play, put it into into put it into play, put it into into put it into play, put it into motion, and then understand exactly what motion, and then understand exactly what motion, and then understand exactly what it can do for others. And and I I guess it can do for others. And and I I guess it can do for others. And and I I guess I need to preface that I should I say I need to preface that I should I say I need to preface that I should I say explain that by by saying that you know, explain that by by saying that you know, explain that by by saying that you know, growing up the way I did, you know, growing up the way I did, you know,

1:59 growing up the way I did, you know, there was uh there's eight of us, you there was uh there's eight of us, you there was uh there's eight of us, you know, so and seven of us still remain. know, so and seven of us still remain. know, so and seven of us still remain. And there were five different fathers And there were five different fathers And there were five different fathers between us eight kids. And the one thing between us eight kids. And the one thing between us eight kids. And the one thing that my mother told us and and she was that my mother told us and and she was that my mother told us and and she was not married, so I not married, so I not married, so I think that's important, too. One thing

2:13 think that's important, too. One thing think that's important, too. One thing she told us that, you know, you know, she told us that, you know, you know, she told us that, you know, you know, based on you know, our foundation, you based on you know, our foundation, you based on you know, our foundation, you know, we don't have the the room to know, we don't have the the room to know, we don't have the the room to judge anyone. judge anyone. judge anyone. Uh Uh Uh but what we do have is an opportunity to but what we do have is an opportunity to but what we do have is an opportunity to be one thing as a family be one thing as a family be one thing as a family and two, look out for each other.

2:26 and two, look out for each other. and two, look out for each other. And and I never thought that going into And and I never thought that going into And and I never thought that going into the Armed Forces that that would matter. the Armed Forces that that would matter. the Armed Forces that that would matter. But when you and I heard you talk about But when you and I heard you talk about But when you and I heard you talk about the other day on that other podcast, the other day on that other podcast, the other day on that other podcast, when you think about your background and when you think about your background and when you think about your background and the the different walks of life that we

2:38 the the different walks of life that we the the different walks of life that we come in contact with, I think our come in contact with, I think our come in contact with, I think our background sets us up for service, not background sets us up for service, not background sets us up for service, not only for service to our community, but only for service to our community, but only for service to our community, but more importantly, when we join the Armed more importantly, when we join the Armed more importantly, when we join the Armed Forces, it's like we were meant to go Forces, it's like we were meant to go Forces, it's like we were meant to go there and to use where we came from to

2:50 there and to use where we came from to there and to use where we came from to not only impact the lives of others, but not only impact the lives of others, but not only impact the lives of others, but to let them know that where they where to let them know that where they where to let them know that where they where they were or where they're from doesn't they were or where they're from doesn't they were or where they're from doesn't have to be the end all be all to where have to be the end all be all to where have to be the end all be all to where they can be. And and I tell you I am they can be. And and I tell you I am they can be. And and I tell you I am blessed because I I had that that

3:02 blessed because I I had that that blessed because I I had that that foundation. Even though anybody would foundation. Even though anybody would foundation. Even though anybody would say, "Hey, who wanted to grow up poor? say, "Hey, who wanted to grow up poor? say, "Hey, who wanted to grow up poor? Who wanted to grow up where, you know, Who wanted to grow up where, you know, Who wanted to grow up where, you know, you had, you know, eight to nine people you had, you know, eight to nine people you had, you know, eight to nine people in a very small, compact, you know, in a very small, compact, you know, in a very small, compact, you know, space?" But hey, when you think about it

3:13 space?" But hey, when you think about it space?" But hey, when you think about it in retrospect, that's how we started our in retrospect, that's how we started our in retrospect, that's how we started our Armed Forces career and it just blossoms Armed Forces career and it just blossoms Armed Forces career and it just blossoms from there. And and I'll say that's from there. And and I'll say that's from there. And and I'll say that's that's how my life started and that's that's how my life started and that's that's how my life started and that's how my career started and I believe both how my career started and I believe both how my career started and I believe both of them began the way they did because

3:24 of them began the way they did because of them began the way they did because it was supposed to happen to get me to it was supposed to happen to get me to it was supposed to happen to get me to where I am. where I am. where I am. Eight eight brothers and sisters, I just Eight eight brothers and sisters, I just Eight eight brothers and sisters, I just had a conversation yesterday with a very had a conversation yesterday with a very had a conversation yesterday with a very prominent nonprofit here in the prominent nonprofit here in the prominent nonprofit here in the Washington, D.C. area that does a lot of Washington, D.C. area that does a lot of

3:36 Washington, D.C. area that does a lot of veteran related issues. veteran related issues. veteran related issues. And they focus on that that hero, that And they focus on that that hero, that And they focus on that that hero, that that World War II hero, that that that World War II hero, that that that World War II hero, that that trigger puller that does some of the trigger puller that does some of the trigger puller that does some of the most most most amazing things in society that are that amazing things in society that are that amazing things in society that are that are are are youth, you know, look up to as these youth, you know, look up to as these youth, you know, look up to as these heroes. And I told them that

3:54 heroes. And I told them that heroes. And I told them that my channel, my message is more about how my channel, my message is more about how my channel, my message is more about how do we show that everybody is welcome in do we show that everybody is welcome in do we show that everybody is welcome in service and service isn't just that that service and service isn't just that that service and service isn't just that that prototypical hero that you see in the in prototypical hero that you see in the in prototypical hero that you see in the in the movie. It's It's all walks of life. the movie. It's It's all walks of life. the movie. It's It's all walks of life. You know, you've seen many of my

4:09 You know, you've seen many of my You know, you've seen many of my podcasts. I've I've podcasts. I've I've podcasts. I've I've spoken to people from the trans spoken to people from the trans spoken to people from the trans community. I've spoken to people that community. I've spoken to people that community. I've spoken to people that that came from wealth, that came from that came from wealth, that came from that came from wealth, that came from poverty, but really just came down to poverty, but really just came down to poverty, but really just came down to service. And so that's what I love about service. And so that's what I love about service. And so that's what I love about you is that you look at those times

4:26 you is that you look at those times you is that you look at those times where you were struggling as a young kid where you were struggling as a young kid where you were struggling as a young kid and your mother was trying to make ends and your mother was trying to make ends and your mother was trying to make ends meet and you use those as tools meet and you use those as tools meet and you use those as tools for your leadership. And that It's for your leadership. And that It's for your leadership. And that It's striking how similar we are. striking how similar we are. striking how similar we are. It really It really It really is. It really It really It really is.

4:41 It really It really It really is. You're spot on. You know, working with You're spot on. You know, working with You're spot on. You know, working with I'm I'm at Veterans United now as a as I'm I'm at Veterans United now as a as I'm I'm at Veterans United now as a as military advisor. And so I work with military advisor. And so I work with military advisor. And so I work with some other service enlisted advisors, some other service enlisted advisors, some other service enlisted advisors, obviously retired. obviously retired. obviously retired. And the one thing we did we were And the one thing we did we were And the one thing we did we were introducing ourselves to

4:55 introducing ourselves to introducing ourselves to to the to the president of the company to the to the president of the company to the to the president of the company was that we talked about our backgrounds was that we talked about our backgrounds was that we talked about our backgrounds and we started looking at each other and we started looking at each other and we started looking at each other like like like how did I not know this? But at the same how did I not know this? But at the same how did I not know this? But at the same time it was like they're pretty similar. time it was like they're pretty similar. time it was like they're pretty similar. You know, humble beginnings, you know, You know, humble beginnings, you know, You know, humble beginnings, you know, there were struggles, there were there were struggles, there were

5:09 there were struggles, there were challenges, but there were things about challenges, but there were things about challenges, but there were things about our our our our past that helped us to our our our our past that helped us to our our our our past that helped us to to be more insightful, more caring, to to be more insightful, more caring, to to be more insightful, more caring, to have emotional intelligence even though have emotional intelligence even though have emotional intelligence even though we didn't have a title for it then, and we didn't have a title for it then, and we didn't have a title for it then, and and to understand that we could actually

5:21 and to understand that we could actually and to understand that we could actually bring the best out of people by letting bring the best out of people by letting bring the best out of people by letting know that where they're from, again like know that where they're from, again like know that where they're from, again like I said a few moments ago, isn't the end I said a few moments ago, isn't the end I said a few moments ago, isn't the end all be all. It's just a probably all be all. It's just a probably all be all. It's just a probably foundation to what's going to make them foundation to what's going to make them foundation to what's going to make them a better service member themselves.

5:32 a better service member themselves. a better service member themselves. Boy, we're already off the rails from Boy, we're already off the rails from Boy, we're already off the rails from the questions I wanted to ask you and the questions I wanted to ask you and the questions I wanted to ask you and and that's where this honest That's and that's where this honest That's and that's where this honest That's where No, that's where this honest where No, that's where this honest where No, that's where this honest conversation comes from and I'm so conversation comes from and I'm so conversation comes from and I'm so thankful that we're that we're having

5:41 thankful that we're that we're having thankful that we're that we're having this today. this today. this today. That's where I think you and I think That's where I think you and I think That's where I think you and I think alike from a transparency perspective. alike from a transparency perspective. alike from a transparency perspective. I've worked for many senior leaders that I've worked for many senior leaders that I've worked for many senior leaders that hey, don't show your weaknesses, don't hey, don't show your weaknesses, don't hey, don't show your weaknesses, don't show your emotions. When you're in show your emotions. When you're in show your emotions. When you're in charge, you need to be you need to fit a

5:56 charge, you need to be you need to fit a charge, you need to be you need to fit a particular mold. And I butted heads with particular mold. And I butted heads with particular mold. And I butted heads with a lot of folks that I worked with a lot of folks that I worked with a lot of folks that I worked with because I was sharing those emotional because I was sharing those emotional because I was sharing those emotional weaknesses, you know, hey, Airman weaknesses, you know, hey, Airman weaknesses, you know, hey, Airman so-and-so, you know, I'm having a really so-and-so, you know, I'm having a really so-and-so, you know, I'm having a really bad day and here's why. And just

6:10 bad day and here's why. And just bad day and here's why. And just providing that transparency that we're providing that transparency that we're providing that transparency that we're all human and and talking about some of all human and and talking about some of all human and and talking about some of my weaknesses growing up as a kid, it my weaknesses growing up as a kid, it my weaknesses growing up as a kid, it created this level of trust where you created this level of trust where you created this level of trust where you get so much more out of your out of your get so much more out of your out of your get so much more out of your out of your troops. And hearing you and I've heard

6:27 troops. And hearing you and I've heard troops. And hearing you and I've heard many of your speeches and talking about many of your speeches and talking about many of your speeches and talking about your transparency, your transparency, your transparency, oh, oh, oh, you know, once again, if we were to look you know, once again, if we were to look you know, once again, if we were to look at this from a psychological perspective at this from a psychological perspective at this from a psychological perspective and what kind of performance you get out and what kind of performance you get out and what kind of performance you get out of folks, of folks, of folks, you can rest assured that you're getting you can rest assured that you're getting you can rest assured that you're getting more out of your Airmen by being honest more out of your Airmen by being honest

6:43 more out of your Airmen by being honest with them than fitting this perfect with them than fitting this perfect with them than fitting this perfect Chief Master Sergeant, you know, I'm the Chief Master Sergeant, you know, I'm the Chief Master Sergeant, you know, I'm the big dog on the hill in charge of the big dog on the hill in charge of the big dog on the hill in charge of the whole Guard Bureau enlisted force. So we whole Guard Bureau enlisted force. So we whole Guard Bureau enlisted force. So we got off the rails. got off the rails. got off the rails. Yes. Sorry about that. Yes. Sorry about that. Yes. Sorry about that. >> No problem. But that brings me to, you

6:58 >> No problem. But that brings me to, you >> No problem. But that brings me to, you know, what drew you to the Air Force in know, what drew you to the Air Force in know, what drew you to the Air Force in 1982 and what kept you saying yes for so

07:00 Advising the Chief of the National Guard Bureau

7:02 1982 and what kept you saying yes for so 1982 and what kept you saying yes for so many years? Because as an enlisted many years? Because as an enlisted many years? Because as an enlisted troop, you know, every two to four to troop, you know, every two to four to troop, you know, every two to four to six years you're asked, "Hey, would you six years you're asked, "Hey, would you six years you're asked, "Hey, would you like to continue this service?" So where like to continue this service?" So where like to continue this service?" So where did 1982 and all this come about? did 1982 and all this come about? did 1982 and all this come about? So obviously I gave you a little little

7:16 So obviously I gave you a little little So obviously I gave you a little little tidbit of the background. So you know, tidbit of the background. So you know, tidbit of the background. So you know, growing up in a in a in a household growing up in a in a in a household growing up in a in a in a household where again there's a whole bunch of where again there's a whole bunch of where again there's a whole bunch of folks. So here was a here was the the folks. So here was a here was the the folks. So here was a here was the the mantra that you you had or you heard is mantra that you you had or you heard is mantra that you you had or you heard is that all right, you're graduating from

7:26 that all right, you're graduating from that all right, you're graduating from high school, you can go to college, but high school, you can go to college, but high school, you can go to college, but you're going to work. you're going to work. you're going to work. Are you going to work? Are you going to work? Are you going to work? You're not going to go to college You're not going to go to college You're not going to go to college full-time and not work. That's just not full-time and not work. That's just not full-time and not work. That's just not going to happen because you got to going to happen because you got to going to happen because you got to contribute to the household.

7:37 contribute to the household. contribute to the household. And so both of my brothers had joined And so both of my brothers had joined And so both of my brothers had joined the United States Army. the United States Army. the United States Army. Yeah, their choice. But go Army just in case you guys watch. But go Army just in case you guys watch. So they both joined the Army and so when So they both joined the Army and so when So they both joined the Army and so when it was time for me, I was like, okay, it was time for me, I was like, okay, it was time for me, I was like, okay, what am I going to do? And I was like, what am I going to do? And I was like,

7:54 what am I going to do? And I was like, I'm going to go to the Air Force. But it I'm going to go to the Air Force. But it I'm going to go to the Air Force. But it was because we had That was when was because we had That was when was because we had That was when recruiters could come to your high recruiters could come to your high recruiters could come to your high school. And so the recruiters that came school. And so the recruiters that came school. And so the recruiters that came to our high school was from the United to our high school was from the United to our high school was from the United States Air Force. And I can still States Air Force. And I can still

8:03 States Air Force. And I can still remember their names. It was Staff remember their names. It was Staff remember their names. It was Staff Sergeant Melissa Outlaw and Staff Sergeant Melissa Outlaw and Staff Sergeant Melissa Outlaw and Staff Sergeant Charles Smart. Sergeant Charles Smart. Sergeant Charles Smart. Took the ASVAB test, didn't know any Took the ASVAB test, didn't know any Took the ASVAB test, didn't know any didn't think anything of it. And then of didn't think anything of it. And then of didn't think anything of it. And then of course, the follow-up was say, "Hey, you course, the follow-up was say, "Hey, you course, the follow-up was say, "Hey, you you did pretty good. You want to talk

8:17 you did pretty good. You want to talk you did pretty good. You want to talk about joining the military?" And then about joining the military?" And then about joining the military?" And then closer to the time guy was like, "Okay, closer to the time guy was like, "Okay, closer to the time guy was like, "Okay, I don't have a plan, so I've got to make I don't have a plan, so I've got to make I don't have a plan, so I've got to make one right now." one right now." one right now." So I go tell my mom I'm you know, I'm So I go tell my mom I'm you know, I'm So I go tell my mom I'm you know, I'm going to go in the military. Little did going to go in the military. Little did

8:27 going to go in the military. Little did I know she wasn't crazy about the idea I know she wasn't crazy about the idea I know she wasn't crazy about the idea because you know, I was the short guy in because you know, I was the short guy in because you know, I was the short guy in the house. the house. the house. And and so it it wasn't it wasn't what And and so it it wasn't it wasn't what And and so it it wasn't it wasn't what she thought it was going to be for me. she thought it was going to be for me. she thought it was going to be for me. But I was like, you know, hey, I got to But I was like, you know, hey, I got to But I was like, you know, hey, I got to do something, so I've got to go. And so

8:40 do something, so I've got to go. And so do something, so I've got to go. And so I go and look at the video tapes, VHS, I go and look at the video tapes, VHS, I go and look at the video tapes, VHS, and security specialist at the time and security specialist at the time and security specialist at the time looked really cool. Uh and then fast looked really cool. Uh and then fast looked really cool. Uh and then fast forward find myself in a missile field. forward find myself in a missile field. forward find myself in a missile field. But anyway, I decided I was going to But anyway, I decided I was going to But anyway, I decided I was going to join the United States Air Force and so

8:52 join the United States Air Force and so join the United States Air Force and so I did. I did. I did. And when I left, I left on December 2nd, And when I left, I left on December 2nd, And when I left, I left on December 2nd, 1982. It happened to be my mom's 1982. It happened to be my mom's 1982. It happened to be my mom's birthday. birthday. birthday. And dropped me off at MEPS and I'm gone. And dropped me off at MEPS and I'm gone. And dropped me off at MEPS and I'm gone. First time ever getting on a plane in my First time ever getting on a plane in my First time ever getting on a plane in my entire life and you know, leaving the entire life and you know, leaving the entire life and you know, leaving the state of Florida.

9:07 state of Florida. state of Florida. I I think I went to Georgia once, but so I I think I went to Georgia once, but so I I think I went to Georgia once, but so getting there and so this is a totally getting there and so this is a totally getting there and so this is a totally different different different culture to me. It was meeting all these culture to me. It was meeting all these culture to me. It was meeting all these people from different walks of life and people from different walks of life and people from different walks of life and it was like, how do I fit in? it was like, how do I fit in? it was like, how do I fit in? And what I realized is that they didn't

9:20 And what I realized is that they didn't And what I realized is that they didn't fit in either and we found a way to fit fit in either and we found a way to fit fit in either and we found a way to fit in together. in together. in together. Went through the you know, the process Went through the you know, the process Went through the you know, the process of basic training, technical training, of basic training, technical training, of basic training, technical training, getting my first assignment and coming getting my first assignment and coming getting my first assignment and coming from Jacksonville, Florida going to from Jacksonville, Florida going to

9:32 from Jacksonville, Florida going to Rapid City, South Dakota, Ellsworth Air Rapid City, South Dakota, Ellsworth Air Rapid City, South Dakota, Ellsworth Air Force Base. Eye-opening. Yeah. Force Base. Eye-opening. Yeah. Force Base. Eye-opening. Yeah. Yeah, December No, it was uh Sep- Yeah, December No, it was uh Sep- Yeah, December No, it was uh Sep- September 18th, 1983 is the first time I September 18th, 1983 is the first time I September 18th, 1983 is the first time I ever saw snow in my entire life. Freaked ever saw snow in my entire life. Freaked ever saw snow in my entire life. Freaked me out. 3 days later it was still me out. 3 days later it was still

9:44 me out. 3 days later it was still snowing. I was ready to leave. snowing. I was ready to leave. snowing. I was ready to leave. All right. All right. All right. Anyway, so I leave there and I go to Anyway, so I leave there and I go to Anyway, so I leave there and I go to Okinawa, Japan. Okinawa, Japan. Okinawa, Japan. And that's where things changed because And that's where things changed because And that's where things changed because I get there and I get there and I get there and I thought I wasn't going to like it, but I thought I wasn't going to like it, but I thought I wasn't going to like it, but I realized man, this is great. I realized man, this is great.

10:00 I realized man, this is great. I was making money, if you want to call I was making money, if you want to call I was making money, if you want to call it money back then. it money back then. it money back then. Um, life is starting to change, you Um, life is starting to change, you Um, life is starting to change, you know, thinking about family and things know, thinking about family and things know, thinking about family and things of that nature. of that nature. of that nature. I was like, this can work. I was sending I was like, this can work. I was sending I was like, this can work. I was sending money back home. So, I decided I'm going money back home. So, I decided I'm going

10:12 money back home. So, I decided I'm going to do it. to do it. to do it. Now, this is what made me decide to do Now, this is what made me decide to do Now, this is what made me decide to do my first re-enlistment. my first re-enlistment. my first re-enlistment. Shame, shame, shame, but they were Shame, shame, shame, but they were Shame, shame, shame, but they were offering an in-place COT at Kadena Air offering an in-place COT at Kadena Air offering an in-place COT at Kadena Air Base. Tell us what COT stands for. Base. Tell us what COT stands for. Base. Tell us what COT stands for. Thank you. And the the in-place COT or a Thank you. And the the in-place COT or a

10:28 Thank you. And the the in-place COT or a consecutive overseas tour is that if you consecutive overseas tour is that if you consecutive overseas tour is that if you decided to sign up for another 30 months decided to sign up for another 30 months decided to sign up for another 30 months or should I say enlist, then they would or should I say enlist, then they would or should I say enlist, then they would let you go home for 30 days and then you let you go home for 30 days and then you let you go home for 30 days and then you would come back and do another 2 and 1/2 would come back and do another 2 and 1/2 would come back and do another 2 and 1/2 years.

10:41 years. years. Yeah. And so, I was like, I'm in for it. Yeah. And so, I was like, I'm in for it. Yeah. And so, I was like, I'm in for it. I didn't have to pay for leave. I could I didn't have to pay for leave. I could I didn't have to pay for leave. I could stay over in Japan and and I said, all stay over in Japan and and I said, all stay over in Japan and and I said, all right, I'm going for it. And I right, I'm going for it. And I right, I'm going for it. And I And each time I started to spend more And each time I started to spend more And each time I started to spend more time getting to know some of my leaders, time getting to know some of my leaders,

10:55 time getting to know some of my leaders, um, I um, I um, I I I got to realize that this is this is I I got to realize that this is this is I I got to realize that this is this is not a bad place. This is where not a bad place. This is where not a bad place. This is where I belong because I'm not a misfit. Um, I belong because I'm not a misfit. Um, I belong because I'm not a misfit. Um, I'm part of a group of people that I'm part of a group of people that I'm part of a group of people that started to recognize things in me started to recognize things in me started to recognize things in me because I started to see things in them because I started to see things in them because I started to see things in them that I wanted to be. And and I'll give a that I wanted to be. And and I'll give a that I wanted to be. And and I'll give a name and I hope I I've got time to do a

11:15 name and I hope I I've got time to do a name and I hope I I've got time to do a little name dropping. His name was little name dropping. His name was little name dropping. His name was uh Tony Mira, senior master sergeant at uh Tony Mira, senior master sergeant at uh Tony Mira, senior master sergeant at the time, who retired as a chief master the time, who retired as a chief master the time, who retired as a chief master sergeant, um, working in the uh sergeant, um, working in the uh sergeant, um, working in the uh US Embassy over in Thailand. US Embassy over in Thailand. US Embassy over in Thailand. And And And he introduced to me into professionalism

11:29 he introduced to me into professionalism he introduced to me into professionalism as a security forces member. I mean, as a security forces member. I mean, as a security forces member. I mean, this guy came to work every day. I mean, this guy came to work every day. I mean, this guy came to work every day. I mean, his uniform looked sharp. Um, his uniform looked sharp. Um, his uniform looked sharp. Um, his family was sharp, uh but the way he his family was sharp, uh but the way he his family was sharp, uh but the way he carried himself, I mean, he was this carried himself, I mean, he was this carried himself, I mean, he was this great guy that just

11:43 great guy that just great guy that just everybody just looked up to because he everybody just looked up to because he everybody just looked up to because he was tall, too. was tall, too. was tall, too. But then But then But then when I started working for him directly, when I started working for him directly, when I started working for him directly, um, one of the Fridays he brought me um, one of the Fridays he brought me um, one of the Fridays he brought me into the office and he pulled out I into the office and he pulled out I into the office and he pulled out I guess it's now statute of limitations, guess it's now statute of limitations, guess it's now statute of limitations, but I was old enough to drink then. He but I was old enough to drink then. He but I was old enough to drink then. He put a a bottle on his desk. He said, put a a bottle on his desk. He said,

11:59 put a a bottle on his desk. He said, this is in the law of Friday. this is in the law of Friday. this is in the law of Friday. And I'm thinking, okay, what does that And I'm thinking, okay, what does that And I'm thinking, okay, what does that mean to me? He says, we're going to talk mean to me? He says, we're going to talk mean to me? He says, we're going to talk about what just happened this week and about what just happened this week and about what just happened this week and what what did that mean to you? And I'm what what did that mean to you? And I'm what what did that mean to you? And I'm like, like, like, all right, what are you asking me? I'm all right, what are you asking me? I'm all right, what are you asking me? I'm thinking, all right, what is he trying thinking, all right, what is he trying

12:13 thinking, all right, what is he trying to pull out of me? But he just wanted to to pull out of me? But he just wanted to to pull out of me? But he just wanted to know, you know, how I felt about one, my know, you know, how I felt about one, my know, you know, how I felt about one, my career, two, about the job that I was in career, two, about the job that I was in career, two, about the job that I was in right now and what I was going to do right now and what I was going to do right now and what I was going to do next. And he gave me a space to do that. next. And he gave me a space to do that. next. And he gave me a space to do that. And I I didn't know that the word safe

12:26 And I I didn't know that the word safe And I I didn't know that the word safe space, you know, was what that was, but space, you know, was what that was, but space, you know, was what that was, but that's exactly what it was was to talk that's exactly what it was was to talk that's exactly what it was was to talk openly and honestly about how I felt openly and honestly about how I felt openly and honestly about how I felt about where I was, what I wanted to do, about where I was, what I wanted to do, about where I was, what I wanted to do, and where I wanted to go. And of course, and where I wanted to go. And of course, and where I wanted to go. And of course, he would offer me advice as well.

12:36 he would offer me advice as well. he would offer me advice as well. And it just kept happening every time I And it just kept happening every time I And it just kept happening every time I went from one installation to the next. went from one installation to the next. went from one installation to the next. It was always a new experience, always It was always a new experience, always It was always a new experience, always different people that I met. different people that I met. different people that I met. Not realizing um and and if if I start Not realizing um and and if if I start Not realizing um and and if if I start to ramble, cut me off that, you know,

12:49 to ramble, cut me off that, you know, to ramble, cut me off that, you know, basic military training sets you up for basic military training sets you up for basic military training sets you up for success if you think about it, but often success if you think about it, but often success if you think about it, but often times we don't think about it until in times we don't think about it until in times we don't think about it until in retrospect. Is that they put you in a retrospect. Is that they put you in a retrospect. Is that they put you in a group of people that you don't know group of people that you don't know group of people that you don't know and they challenge you to start to get

13:00 and they challenge you to start to get and they challenge you to start to get to know them and start to look for to know them and start to look for to know them and start to look for strengths and weaknesses in the people strengths and weaknesses in the people strengths and weaknesses in the people that you do and build a team. that you do and build a team. that you do and build a team. And therein lies the the the genius of And therein lies the the the genius of And therein lies the the the genius of the armed forces is that every the armed forces is that every the armed forces is that every assignment that you go to, you do the assignment that you go to, you do the assignment that you go to, you do the same thing. But you do it quicker same thing. But you do it quicker same thing. But you do it quicker because often times it's about getting

13:17 because often times it's about getting because often times it's about getting there and getting to understand the there and getting to understand the there and getting to understand the mission and then boom, you're off to the mission and then boom, you're off to the mission and then boom, you're off to the races. But what you do, especially as races. But what you do, especially as races. But what you do, especially as become a leader, is that now I'm become a leader, is that now I'm become a leader, is that now I'm starting to think, not only do I have to starting to think, not only do I have to starting to think, not only do I have to get to know the people, but I've got to

13:28 get to know the people, but I've got to get to know the people, but I've got to understand what makes them tick and then understand what makes them tick and then understand what makes them tick and then let them see a little more of me to let them see a little more of me to let them see a little more of me to realize that, you know, if they think realize that, you know, if they think realize that, you know, if they think that I'm a Superman, there's a very good that I'm a Superman, there's a very good that I'm a Superman, there's a very good chance some of the best people in the chance some of the best people in the chance some of the best people in the organization are not going to give me

13:37 organization are not going to give me organization are not going to give me their best because they're they're their best because they're they're their best because they're they're thinking, hey, I'm not perfect. thinking, hey, I'm not perfect. thinking, hey, I'm not perfect. So, I'm not perfect, there's no way I So, I'm not perfect, there's no way I So, I'm not perfect, there's no way I can reach the standard of Tony can reach the standard of Tony can reach the standard of Tony Whitehead. And truth be told, as you Whitehead. And truth be told, as you Whitehead. And truth be told, as you just talked about and and and I mean, just talked about and and and I mean, just talked about and and and I mean, you're a great example of that, too, you're a great example of that, too, you're a great example of that, too, is that the reality of who we are, the

13:50 is that the reality of who we are, the is that the reality of who we are, the humanity of who we are, is what makes us humanity of who we are, is what makes us humanity of who we are, is what makes us the best leaders. the best leaders. the best leaders. You know, we bring out the best in You know, we bring out the best in You know, we bring out the best in people by not show by showing them that people by not show by showing them that people by not show by showing them that we're not the best in in every area of we're not the best in in every area of we're not the best in in every area of our life. our life. our life. So much to unpack there. So much to unpack there. So much to unpack there. First off, you started off with you First off, you started off with you First off, you started off with you know, you came from a family of eight. know, you came from a family of eight.

14:08 know, you came from a family of eight. So, you're already fighting for that So, you're already fighting for that So, you're already fighting for that identity to get the attention of your identity to get the attention of your identity to get the attention of your mother cuz you have competition amongst mother cuz you have competition amongst mother cuz you have competition amongst your siblings. Then, you know, you're your siblings. Then, you know, you're your siblings. Then, you know, you're the you're the Kevin Hart of the family. the you're the Kevin Hart of the family. the you're the Kevin Hart of the family. You're you're short in stature, but You're you're short in stature, but

14:21 You're you're short in stature, but you're this you know, this muscle-bound you're this you know, this muscle-bound you're this you know, this muscle-bound guy. So, you have to overcome the fact guy. So, you have to overcome the fact guy. So, you have to overcome the fact that as a youth, I imagine people, you that as a youth, I imagine people, you that as a youth, I imagine people, you know, teased you or gave you a hard know, teased you or gave you a hard know, teased you or gave you a hard time. time. time. Then you go off to South Dakota, right? Then you go off to South Dakota, right? Then you go off to South Dakota, right? This kid from Florida that's never seen

14:36 This kid from Florida that's never seen This kid from Florida that's never seen snow and you probably haven't snow and you probably haven't snow and you probably haven't experienced as much wind as you did experienced as much wind as you did experienced as much wind as you did in in South Dakota. in in South Dakota. in in South Dakota. But you go there and my first assignment But you go there and my first assignment But you go there and my first assignment was Cheyenne, Wyoming, FE Warren. was Cheyenne, Wyoming, FE Warren. was Cheyenne, Wyoming, FE Warren. And people are like, oh my gosh, I'm so And people are like, oh my gosh, I'm so And people are like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry for you. But sorry for you. But sorry for you. But those struggles of being in this foreign those struggles of being in this foreign those struggles of being in this foreign environment and embracing the suck, if

14:59 environment and embracing the suck, if environment and embracing the suck, if you will, you will, you will, developed best friendships that I still developed best friendships that I still developed best friendships that I still have to this day. And that was 25 25

15:00 What It Means to Lead at the Highest Level

15:05 have to this day. And that was 25 25 have to this day. And that was 25 25 years ago, right? So, it's been proven years ago, right? So, it's been proven years ago, right? So, it's been proven time and time again. You put people in time and time again. You put people in time and time again. You put people in uncomfortable situations, they come uncomfortable situations, they come uncomfortable situations, they come together. And it's the same thing with, together. And it's the same thing with, together. And it's the same thing with, you know, you going off to Japan and you know, you going off to Japan and you know, you going off to Japan and this this senior leader taking you aside

15:17 this this senior leader taking you aside this this senior leader taking you aside and and having that beverage and getting and and having that beverage and getting and and having that beverage and getting that time to mentor you. that time to mentor you. that time to mentor you. It's It's It's you know, basic training, all these you know, basic training, all these you know, basic training, all these things. It's just like sports, which I things. It's just like sports, which I things. It's just like sports, which I really wish, you know, more kids played really wish, you know, more kids played really wish, you know, more kids played sports today because

15:31 sports today because sports today because they break you down, right? And then they break you down, right? And then they break you down, right? And then they build you back up as a team. I they build you back up as a team. I they build you back up as a team. I remember football players complaining remember football players complaining remember football players complaining about in August before school started, about in August before school started, about in August before school started, you know, they're doing two-a-days or you know, they're doing two-a-days or you know, they're doing two-a-days or three-a-day practices and it's designed three-a-day practices and it's designed

15:43 three-a-day practices and it's designed to break them down so they're dreading to break them down so they're dreading to break them down so they're dreading that second and third practice. And by that second and third practice. And by that second and third practice. And by the, you know, the third or fourth day the, you know, the third or fourth day the, you know, the third or fourth day of doing this, the kids are hating the of doing this, the kids are hating the of doing this, the kids are hating the coach, but they're loving one another, coach, but they're loving one another, coach, but they're loving one another, right? And that's what it's all designed right? And that's what it's all designed

15:56 right? And that's what it's all designed to do. And so, to do. And so, to do. And so, I just I just I just you were literally living that recipe of you were literally living that recipe of you were literally living that recipe of proven success of breaking them down and proven success of breaking them down and proven success of breaking them down and building them back up. And so, that building them back up. And so, that building them back up. And so, that leads me to my next question for you is, leads me to my next question for you is, leads me to my next question for you is, you know, what leadership lessons from you know, what leadership lessons from you know, what leadership lessons from those early years never left you?

16:22 I think one of the first ones was and it I think one of the first ones was and it was a difficult one for me to see was a difficult one for me to see was a difficult one for me to see because you mentioned something a little because you mentioned something a little because you mentioned something a little nugget there. Uh, with you know, nugget there. Uh, with you know, nugget there. Uh, with you know, catching my mom's attention a group of catching my mom's attention a group of catching my mom's attention a group of eight was that eight was that eight was that I didn't know I was an introvert because I didn't know I was an introvert because I didn't know I was an introvert because I I kind of pulled back and it was I I kind of pulled back and it was I I kind of pulled back and it was always observing people. So, I never always observing people. So, I never

16:35 always observing people. So, I never realized that people were observing me. realized that people were observing me. realized that people were observing me. But I think the first one I I leadership But I think the first one I I leadership But I think the first one I I leadership uh lesson I learned was to be uh lesson I learned was to be uh lesson I learned was to be approachable. approachable. approachable. Because when you're you're dealing with Because when you're you're dealing with Because when you're you're dealing with and and of course to some of the and and of course to some of the and and of course to some of the positions you've had as well, you're

16:49 positions you've had as well, you're positions you've had as well, you're dealing with people from different walks dealing with people from different walks dealing with people from different walks of life, especially those that have gone of life, especially those that have gone of life, especially those that have gone on to the come from Ivy League schools on to the come from Ivy League schools on to the come from Ivy League schools and they're wearing the stars and and and they're wearing the stars and and and they're wearing the stars and and and so forth and so on. They seem and so forth and so on. They seem and so forth and so on. They seem unapproachable, but they're that's not

17:01 unapproachable, but they're that's not unapproachable, but they're that's not the case. the case. the case. And often times you're we're we're And often times you're we're we're And often times you're we're we're blessed when someone sees us and and blessed when someone sees us and and blessed when someone sees us and and maybe they even know that about us, too. maybe they even know that about us, too. maybe they even know that about us, too. Not that we're unapproachable, but that Not that we're unapproachable, but that Not that we're unapproachable, but that we need to to understand that they're we need to to understand that they're we need to to understand that they're approachable.

17:15 approachable. approachable. And and so, the folks that I I that I And and so, the folks that I I that I And and so, the folks that I I that I met young early in my career, they did met young early in my career, they did met young early in my career, they did that. And it was one of those lessons that. And it was one of those lessons that. And it was one of those lessons that stayed with me that, you know, as I that stayed with me that, you know, as I that stayed with me that, you know, as I progress, don't ever get to the point in progress, don't ever get to the point in progress, don't ever get to the point in my career or any position that I may

17:26 my career or any position that I may my career or any position that I may have in my career that I cut people off. have in my career that I cut people off. have in my career that I cut people off. Because those are the people that helped Because those are the people that helped Because those are the people that helped me to get to where I am and they're me to get to where I am and they're me to get to where I am and they're helping me to be successful where I am. helping me to be successful where I am. helping me to be successful where I am. So, how do I close the door on them? So, how do I close the door on them? So, how do I close the door on them? Yeah, I just that was one of the first

17:38 Yeah, I just that was one of the first Yeah, I just that was one of the first ones and and now that I look at it in ones and and now that I look at it in ones and and now that I look at it in retrospect, I sound like a grown-up now. retrospect, I sound like a grown-up now. retrospect, I sound like a grown-up now. But when I think about it in retrospect, But when I think about it in retrospect, But when I think about it in retrospect, that was probably one of the first that was probably one of the first that was probably one of the first leadership lessons I learned was to be leadership lessons I learned was to be leadership lessons I learned was to be approachable.

17:48 approachable. approachable. What point in your career did you have What point in your career did you have What point in your career did you have that courage to go out and ask that that courage to go out and ask that that courage to go out and ask that senior leader for mentorship advice? I would say when I was I would say when I was was I a staff sergeant? Yes, uh I was over in Korea. Um, and Yes, uh I was over in Korea. Um, and that's one of those places, too, where that's one of those places, too, where that's one of those places, too, where when you go to Osan Air Base where when you go to Osan Air Base where when you go to Osan Air Base where everybody's there for a remote

18:10 everybody's there for a remote everybody's there for a remote assignment. So, you you really get to assignment. So, you you really get to assignment. So, you you really get to know the people that you're you're know the people that you're you're know the people that you're you're living with and you're working with on a living with and you're working with on a living with and you're working with on a daily basis. And without families there, daily basis. And without families there, daily basis. And without families there, you you start to rely on each other. You you you start to rely on each other. You you you start to rely on each other. You start to talk to each other more.

18:23 start to talk to each other more. start to talk to each other more. And so, talking to one of the And so, talking to one of the And so, talking to one of the superintendents there, I wanted some superintendents there, I wanted some superintendents there, I wanted some advice about how do how do I how do I go advice about how do how do I how do I go advice about how do how do I how do I go about going to what's next? You know, about going to what's next? You know, about going to what's next? You know, because I'm having a great time. because I'm having a great time. because I'm having a great time. I'm starting to realize there's got to I'm starting to realize there's got to

18:37 I'm starting to realize there's got to be more to to to the military than just be more to to to the military than just be more to to to the military than just a great time. a great time. a great time. And so, the superintendent said, listen. And so, the superintendent said, listen. And so, the superintendent said, listen. One, he said, you know, this overseas One, he said, you know, this overseas One, he said, you know, this overseas stuff is fantastic. He was from uh the stuff is fantastic. He was from uh the stuff is fantastic. He was from uh the south and he had that accent. He says, south and he had that accent. He says, south and he had that accent. He says, overseas stuff is fantastic, he said,

18:51 overseas stuff is fantastic, he said, overseas stuff is fantastic, he said, but this can't be the end all and be all but this can't be the end all and be all but this can't be the end all and be all of your career. of your career. of your career. He said, you got to move on. And I He said, you got to move on. And I He said, you got to move on. And I wasn't thinking at the time that that wasn't thinking at the time that that wasn't thinking at the time that that was going to was going to was going to have a full career, but of course, I was have a full career, but of course, I was have a full career, but of course, I was just continuing to say yes every time an

19:02 just continuing to say yes every time an just continuing to say yes every time an enlistment came up. enlistment came up. enlistment came up. And so, when he talked to me about the And so, when he talked to me about the And so, when he talked to me about the fact that if you're going to have a fact that if you're going to have a fact that if you're going to have a career, there are certain things you got career, there are certain things you got career, there are certain things you got to do, certain places you got to go and to do, certain places you got to go and to do, certain places you got to go and he and I'd already done my first level he and I'd already done my first level

19:13 he and I'd already done my first level of PME. He says, but you got to add to of PME. He says, but you got to add to of PME. He says, but you got to add to it. it. it. Um, but if you don't, he says, then Um, but if you don't, he says, then Um, but if you don't, he says, then you're making a decision that where you you're making a decision that where you you're making a decision that where you are is where you're going to be. are is where you're going to be. are is where you're going to be. Didn't make sense to me because I'm Didn't make sense to me because I'm Didn't make sense to me because I'm thinking, I'm not going to be in Korea. thinking, I'm not going to be in Korea. thinking, I'm not going to be in Korea. But that's what he was talking about. But that's what he was talking about. But that's what he was talking about. He's saying, if you're going to be

19:28 He's saying, if you're going to be He's saying, if you're going to be stagnant, that's going to be your choice stagnant, that's going to be your choice stagnant, that's going to be your choice and that's where you're going to be. and that's where you're going to be. and that's where you're going to be. And I was like, wow. And I was like, wow. And I was like, wow. But I didn't realize also, Mike, ooh, I But I didn't realize also, Mike, ooh, I But I didn't realize also, Mike, ooh, I said it out loud. said it out loud. said it out loud. >> It's okay. Get get used to it. >> It's okay. Get get used to it. >> It's okay. Get get used to it. And that's, you know, some of those

19:41 And that's, you know, some of those And that's, you know, some of those those other little lessons, those those other little lessons, those those other little lessons, those nuggets that I was getting from from nuggets that I was getting from from nuggets that I was getting from from other leaders and even my peer about other leaders and even my peer about other leaders and even my peer about talking openly and honestly to other talking openly and honestly to other talking openly and honestly to other people about their careers was something people about their careers was something people about their careers was something that that that that would kind of come back to bite me that would kind of come back to bite me that would kind of come back to bite me in the butt if you will. So I was like, in the butt if you will. So I was like,

19:53 in the butt if you will. So I was like, okay, now I'm listening to this this okay, now I'm listening to this this okay, now I'm listening to this this advice and am I going to take it? advice and am I going to take it? advice and am I going to take it? And I took it. I found myself going to And I took it. I found myself going to And I took it. I found myself going to Howard Air Force Base, Panama. Howard Air Force Base, Panama. Howard Air Force Base, Panama. You think another overseas assignment. You think another overseas assignment. You think another overseas assignment. However, However, However, you know, I'm getting there right at the you know, I'm getting there right at the you know, I'm getting there right at the end of Operation Just Cause and at the end of Operation Just Cause and at the end of Operation Just Cause and at the same time my mother was battling cancer.

20:11 same time my mother was battling cancer. same time my mother was battling cancer. As she had been but tonight started to As she had been but tonight started to As she had been but tonight started to uh really take hold. When I got there, When I got there, they were like, hey, what are you going they were like, hey, what are you going they were like, hey, what are you going to do? And I was like, we we we have to do? And I was like, we we we have to do? And I was like, we we we have another choice but we're doing here. I another choice but we're doing here. I another choice but we're doing here. I mean, you still got, you know, armed mean, you still got, you know, armed

20:24 mean, you still got, you know, armed guards in different places of Balboa guards in different places of Balboa guards in different places of Balboa City. So it's just I'm going to be City. So it's just I'm going to be City. So it's just I'm going to be security forces. They were like, there's security forces. They were like, there's security forces. They were like, there's an opportunity for you to do something an opportunity for you to do something an opportunity for you to do something else and that was the first time that I else and that was the first time that I else and that was the first time that I really really took a chance really really took a chance

20:35 really really took a chance of stepping out of my comfort zone and of stepping out of my comfort zone and of stepping out of my comfort zone and listening to to not you know, this being listening to to not you know, this being listening to to not you know, this being the end all be all and I decided to join the end all be all and I decided to join the end all be all and I decided to join the contraband investigation team. the contraband investigation team. the contraband investigation team. And when I did, that meant I was going And when I did, that meant I was going And when I did, that meant I was going to be pretty much a plainclothes cop to be pretty much a plainclothes cop

20:49 to be pretty much a plainclothes cop in Panama. in Panama. in Panama. You know, working with contraband, You know, working with contraband, You know, working with contraband, working with the you know, things that working with the you know, things that working with the you know, things that are happening illegally, you know, are happening illegally, you know, are happening illegally, you know, inside and outside the installation. inside and outside the installation. inside and outside the installation. And it was one of the best decisions And it was one of the best decisions And it was one of the best decisions that I made because I learned that one,

21:02 that I made because I learned that one, that I made because I learned that one, I I could do something different and I I could do something different and I I could do something different and two, I was working with the different two, I was working with the different two, I was working with the different branches of service and guy from the branches of service and guy from the branches of service and guy from the Navy, Billy from the Army. We as a Navy, Billy from the Army. We as a Navy, Billy from the Army. We as a matter of fact, we moved over from matter of fact, we moved over from matter of fact, we moved over from Clayton and one of the things he taught

21:12 Clayton and one of the things he taught Clayton and one of the things he taught me was that you have to have I have to me was that you have to have I have to me was that you have to have I have to have coffee with every meal. I was like, have coffee with every meal. I was like, have coffee with every meal. I was like, okay, I don't know what that means but okay, I don't know what that means but okay, I don't know what that means but he was he was very proper. he was he was very proper. he was he was very proper. And he believed in that. He was pretty And he believed in that. He was pretty And he believed in that. He was pretty cool. Anyway, that's a sidebar. But I I

21:24 cool. Anyway, that's a sidebar. But I I cool. Anyway, that's a sidebar. But I I learned that learned that learned that that working with different services, that working with different services, that working with different services, they were having some of the same they were having some of the same they were having some of the same challenges I was. challenges I was. challenges I was. And And And I learned to be a better listener than I I learned to be a better listener than I I learned to be a better listener than I ever thought I could be because now I'm ever thought I could be because now I'm ever thought I could be because now I'm starting to really get to know people starting to really get to know people

21:39 starting to really get to know people that I would have never met before. that I would have never met before. that I would have never met before. And not realizing I was being set up for And not realizing I was being set up for And not realizing I was being set up for what was going to happen next. what was going to happen next. what was going to happen next. And so I I would say that's where things And so I I would say that's where things And so I I would say that's where things changed for me at at Osan Air Force changed for me at at Osan Air Force changed for me at at Osan Air Force Korea and then sending me to Panama and Korea and then sending me to Panama and

21:52 Korea and then sending me to Panama and finding out obviously things were finding out obviously things were finding out obviously things were contentious at the time over there but I contentious at the time over there but I contentious at the time over there but I was being exposed to people from was being exposed to people from was being exposed to people from different branches of service, different different branches of service, different different branches of service, different levels of of education, different walks levels of of education, different walks levels of of education, different walks of life in a totally different way and of life in a totally different way and

22:02 of life in a totally different way and it changed the way I saw things, it changed the way I saw things, it changed the way I saw things, especially when I talked about my mom, especially when I talked about my mom, especially when I talked about my mom, too. It brought about a whole different too. It brought about a whole different too. It brought about a whole different level of humanity for me. level of humanity for me. level of humanity for me. I just keep coming back to your youth. I just keep coming back to your youth. I just keep coming back to your youth. Let's Let's Let's think about that think about that think about that that young listener which I hope we have

22:16 that young listener which I hope we have that young listener which I hope we have these, you know, these high school, these, you know, these high school, these, you know, these high school, middle school age listeners that that middle school age listeners that that middle school age listeners that that come across this podcast someday. come across this podcast someday. come across this podcast someday. You come from a family of eight. You go You come from a family of eight. You go You come from a family of eight. You go to South Dakota. You go to Japan. You go to South Dakota. You go to Japan. You go to South Dakota. You go to Japan. You go to Korea. You go to Panama. How many

22:35 to Korea. You go to Panama. How many to Korea. You go to Panama. How many kids out there right now are in their kids out there right now are in their kids out there right now are in their homes, homes, homes, you know, surfing Tik Tok, playing video you know, surfing Tik Tok, playing video you know, surfing Tik Tok, playing video games, thinking there's no opportunities games, thinking there's no opportunities games, thinking there's no opportunities for me. for me. for me. You raised your hand. You raised your hand. You raised your hand. You joined the Air Force and you've You joined the Air Force and you've You joined the Air Force and you've already seen half the world by what already seen half the world by what already seen half the world by what what's your age at Panama? I mean, this what's your age at Panama? I mean, this

22:55 what's your age at Panama? I mean, this is just there's so many so many so many is just there's so many so many so many is just there's so many so many so many opportunities through service that our opportunities through service that our opportunities through service that our youth just don't recognize today and youth just don't recognize today and youth just don't recognize today and perhaps part of that is that we don't perhaps part of that is that we don't perhaps part of that is that we don't have those those recruiter interactions have those those recruiter interactions have those those recruiter interactions anymore that we had with our youth. But anymore that we had with our youth. But

23:11 anymore that we had with our youth. But this just leads me on onto my next this just leads me on onto my next this just leads me on onto my next thing. So here you are. You you've gone thing. So here you are. You you've gone thing. So here you are. You you've gone to all these locations, to all these locations, to all these locations, but now you're also getting the but now you're also getting the but now you're also getting the opportunity to deploy. You've been in opportunity to deploy. You've been in opportunity to deploy. You've been in support of Southern Watch and Enduring support of Southern Watch and Enduring support of Southern Watch and Enduring Freedom. How did those experiences

23:25 Freedom. How did those experiences Freedom. How did those experiences change the way you thought about change the way you thought about change the way you thought about readiness readiness readiness and leadership? and leadership? and leadership? Wow, okay. If if you don't mind, I'm Wow, okay. If if you don't mind, I'm Wow, okay. If if you don't mind, I'm going to hopefully make a public service going to hopefully make a public service going to hopefully make a public service announcement to that nugget you talked announcement to that nugget you talked announcement to that nugget you talked about with our youth. Chief, you you about with our youth. Chief, you you

23:36 about with our youth. Chief, you you have led you have led over 300,000 have led you have led over 300,000 have led you have led over 300,000 airmen. You say whatever what whatever airmen. You say whatever what whatever airmen. You say whatever what whatever public speaking announcement you want. public speaking announcement you want. public speaking announcement you want. You you said something so important that You you said something so important that You you said something so important that sometimes it gets overlooked by a lot of sometimes it gets overlooked by a lot of sometimes it gets overlooked by a lot of folks in in uniform is that you know,

23:52 folks in in uniform is that you know, folks in in uniform is that you know, where we come from sometimes, it doesn't where we come from sometimes, it doesn't where we come from sometimes, it doesn't lend itself to some of the experiences lend itself to some of the experiences lend itself to some of the experiences that we're going to have in our life, that we're going to have in our life, that we're going to have in our life, especially in our uniformed life. especially in our uniformed life. especially in our uniformed life. I recall and I'm sure you probably have, I recall and I'm sure you probably have, I recall and I'm sure you probably have, especially as a as probably as a

24:00 The Day the Mission Ended

24:02 especially as a as probably as a especially as a as probably as a commander and some of the chiefs that commander and some of the chiefs that commander and some of the chiefs that you had to listen to, you had to listen to, you had to listen to, they talk about some of their they talk about some of their they talk about some of their backgrounds and how tough they were or backgrounds and how tough they were or backgrounds and how tough they were or even you hear people even you hear people even you hear people places you've been that talk about how places you've been that talk about how places you've been that talk about how tough things were. tough things were. tough things were. And when I hear and I see people now, And when I hear and I see people now, And when I hear and I see people now, especially on the civilian side, that especially on the civilian side, that

24:17 especially on the civilian side, that talk about one, how tough things were, talk about one, how tough things were, talk about one, how tough things were, how tough things are how tough things are how tough things are and even sometimes how tough they are and even sometimes how tough they are and even sometimes how tough they are and they have an opportunity to get out and they have an opportunity to get out and they have an opportunity to get out of that. They have an opportunity to go of that. They have an opportunity to go of that. They have an opportunity to go and do something better and do something better and do something better and they're terrified to leave the and they're terrified to leave the

24:32 and they're terrified to leave the comfort of chaos. comfort of chaos. comfort of chaos. And that really it it that's a head And that really it it that's a head And that really it it that's a head scratcher to me. scratcher to me. scratcher to me. You're terrified to leave the comfort of You're terrified to leave the comfort of You're terrified to leave the comfort of chaos to go into order and structure. And if you're listening, please please And if you're listening, please please please and anybody that can share his please and anybody that can share his please and anybody that can share his podcast with anybody else, you know, podcast with anybody else, you know,

24:51 podcast with anybody else, you know, there's got to be something that we can there's got to be something that we can there's got to be something that we can do, say, be or hear to make them do, say, be or hear to make them do, say, be or hear to make them understand that you've got to look at understand that you've got to look at understand that you've got to look at where you are and say, if you want where you are and say, if you want where you are and say, if you want better, sometimes better is not going to better, sometimes better is not going to better, sometimes better is not going to be where you are. You got to get up and be where you are. You got to get up and

25:03 be where you are. You got to get up and go. go. go. If if you can't pack a suitcase, take If if you can't pack a suitcase, take If if you can't pack a suitcase, take your backpack or even just take your your backpack or even just take your your backpack or even just take your wallet and go wallet and go wallet and go because if you want change, it's not because if you want change, it's not because if you want change, it's not going to happen if you just continue to going to happen if you just continue to going to happen if you just continue to be in this cycle of chaos and be in this cycle of chaos and be in this cycle of chaos and dysfunction. dysfunction. dysfunction. The military can change that for so many

25:19 The military can change that for so many The military can change that for so many people and it has changed it for so many people and it has changed it for so many people and it has changed it for so many people. You know, the the two of us are people. You know, the the two of us are people. You know, the the two of us are talking and and I'm I'm so blessed I had talking and and I'm I'm so blessed I had talking and and I'm I'm so blessed I had an opportunity to meet you and that cool an opportunity to meet you and that cool an opportunity to meet you and that cool walk you were doing in the commander's walk you were doing in the commander's walk you were doing in the commander's office.

25:29 office. office. >> you'd say that. >> you'd say that. >> you'd say that. >> I'll never forget that. But yeah, I I don't know if I rambled a But yeah, I I don't know if I rambled a little bit on that one but I I do I I I little bit on that one but I I do I I I little bit on that one but I I do I I I do I get concerned when I hear a lot of do I get concerned when I hear a lot of do I get concerned when I hear a lot of young men talk about, you know, how young men talk about, you know, how young men talk about, you know, how tough their neighborhoods are tough their neighborhoods are tough their neighborhoods are but they're they're afraid to leave but they're they're afraid to leave

25:44 but they're they're afraid to leave them. them. them. So our youth it you can just start off So our youth it you can just start off So our youth it you can just start off with small victories. It's not even when with small victories. It's not even when with small victories. It's not even when it's time to go off in the military. A it's time to go off in the military. A it's time to go off in the military. A small victory is an example of my oldest small victory is an example of my oldest small victory is an example of my oldest son. son. son. My wife was concerned about him, My wife was concerned about him, My wife was concerned about him, you know, being an introvert, being

26:01 you know, being an introvert, being you know, being an introvert, being quiet, not having a lot of friends. She quiet, not having a lot of friends. She quiet, not having a lot of friends. She said, you're going to go out and you're said, you're going to go out and you're said, you're going to go out and you're going to join the wrestling team. going to join the wrestling team. going to join the wrestling team. Tears. Oh, Mom, don't make me do this. Tears. Oh, Mom, don't make me do this. Tears. Oh, Mom, don't make me do this. And she said, no, you're going to meet And she said, no, you're going to meet And she said, no, you're going to meet friends that are outside your normal

26:13 friends that are outside your normal friends that are outside your normal circle of influence. You're going to get circle of influence. You're going to get circle of influence. You're going to get in shape and you're going to learn in shape and you're going to learn in shape and you're going to learn structure. structure. structure. He fought tooth and nail about joining He fought tooth and nail about joining He fought tooth and nail about joining the wrestling team. the wrestling team. the wrestling team. Well, he's a senior this year. We just Well, he's a senior this year. We just Well, he's a senior this year. We just had senior night 3 weeks ago. had senior night 3 weeks ago.

26:28 had senior night 3 weeks ago. The the pride on his face to walk across The the pride on his face to walk across The the pride on his face to walk across that mat with, you know, myself and that mat with, you know, myself and that mat with, you know, myself and Heather, his mother, and they're Heather, his mother, and they're Heather, his mother, and they're announcing his name and they made these announcing his name and they made these announcing his name and they made these huge posters on the walls and they're huge posters on the walls and they're huge posters on the walls and they're taking pictures and they're talking taking pictures and they're talking

26:42 taking pictures and they're talking about these kids. about these kids. about these kids. And it finally clicked to him that And it finally clicked to him that And it finally clicked to him that getting out of his comfort zone, being getting out of his comfort zone, being getting out of his comfort zone, being on that wrestling team, you know, he was on that wrestling team, you know, he was on that wrestling team, you know, he was not the best wrestler at all in any not the best wrestler at all in any not the best wrestler at all in any stretch, but his level of responsibility stretch, but his level of responsibility stretch, but his level of responsibility and confidence just exploded because he

26:59 and confidence just exploded because he and confidence just exploded because he got out of his comfort zone. So yes, we got out of his comfort zone. So yes, we got out of his comfort zone. So yes, we are talking about joining the military, are talking about joining the military, are talking about joining the military, you know, and serving, but even if you know, and serving, but even if you know, and serving, but even if you're in sixth grade, seventh grade, you're in sixth grade, seventh grade, you're in sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, whatever grades you're in, eighth grade, whatever grades you're in, eighth grade, whatever grades you're in, get out of your comfort zone.

27:11 get out of your comfort zone. get out of your comfort zone. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. >> have a track team? Do you run? Well, go >> have a track team? Do you run? Well, go >> have a track team? Do you run? Well, go out and try. out and try. out and try. Cross country, there's so many Cross country, there's so many Cross country, there's so many opportunities for kids. Just get out of opportunities for kids. Just get out of opportunities for kids. Just get out of your comfort zone. Just give it a try. your comfort zone. Just give it a try. your comfort zone. Just give it a try. If you don't like it, that's okay, but If you don't like it, that's okay, but If you don't like it, that's okay, but it's been proven time and time again.

27:25 it's been proven time and time again. it's been proven time and time again. So I just yeah, I So I just yeah, I So I just yeah, I That was my ramble, Chief. That was my ramble, Chief. That was my ramble, Chief. That's cool. Now, what was the second That's cool. Now, what was the second That's cool. Now, what was the second part? part? part? Yeah, so you've been all over the world Yeah, so you've been all over the world Yeah, so you've been all over the world and and and and and and now that you've had these opportunities now that you've had these opportunities now that you've had these opportunities overseas, you also had some deployments overseas, you also had some deployments

27:41 overseas, you also had some deployments under your belt, you know, Southern under your belt, you know, Southern under your belt, you know, Southern Watch and Enduring Freedom. Now you're Watch and Enduring Freedom. Now you're Watch and Enduring Freedom. Now you're in a totally different environment. What in a totally different environment. What in a totally different environment. What did you know, what are your thoughts did you know, what are your thoughts did you know, what are your thoughts about readiness and leadership during about readiness and leadership during about readiness and leadership during during those times of deployments? during those times of deployments?

27:55 during those times of deployments? You know, I still think about it to this You know, I still think about it to this You know, I still think about it to this day and I don't know where the the day and I don't know where the the day and I don't know where the the switch flipped and maybe it wasn't just switch flipped and maybe it wasn't just switch flipped and maybe it wasn't just a switch that was flipped. It was just a switch that was flipped. It was just a switch that was flipped. It was just that that training that we had. We that that training that we had. We that that training that we had. We always talk about, you know, you know, always talk about, you know, you know,

28:06 always talk about, you know, you know, remember your training. remember your training. remember your training. Remember your training and uh and Remember your training and uh and Remember your training and uh and General Hawkins used to say it all the General Hawkins used to say it all the General Hawkins used to say it all the time. time. time. And And And the first time it was time to you know, the first time it was time to you know, the first time it was time to you know, even just not even just going but going even just not even just going but going even just not even just going but going to Howard Air Force Base, to Howard Air Force Base, to Howard Air Force Base, you know, things were changing there and you know, things were changing there and

28:20 you know, things were changing there and all of a sudden it wasn't just you know, all of a sudden it wasn't just you know, all of a sudden it wasn't just you know, my mission is to go to work, do what I my mission is to go to work, do what I my mission is to go to work, do what I was going to do, you know, the PMEs and was going to do, you know, the PMEs and was going to do, you know, the PMEs and things of that nature. Now, the things things of that nature. Now, the things things of that nature. Now, the things I've been trained to do, I'm actually I've been trained to do, I'm actually I've been trained to do, I'm actually going to have to employ.

28:30 going to have to employ. going to have to employ. And And And and so readiness to me is not just about and so readiness to me is not just about and so readiness to me is not just about the the the the training that you do but it's the the training that you do but it's the the training that you do but it's the mindset that goes along with it. mindset that goes along with it. mindset that goes along with it. And and as leaders, I think often times And and as leaders, I think often times And and as leaders, I think often times we forget that we can go through the we forget that we can go through the we forget that we can go through the motions of getting people ready to go

28:45 motions of getting people ready to go motions of getting people ready to go down range where they're going to go and down range where they're going to go and down range where they're going to go and not take a step back and realize, hey, not take a step back and realize, hey, not take a step back and realize, hey, let's talk about what you're actually let's talk about what you're actually let's talk about what you're actually going to do or what you're actually going to do or what you're actually going to do or what you're actually going going going to be a part of. to be a part of. to be a part of. And it makes each difference when we And it makes each difference when we

28:57 And it makes each difference when we start talking to our troops about it. start talking to our troops about it. start talking to our troops about it. And I think they get it but they need to And I think they get it but they need to And I think they get it but they need to hear it first before they go down range. hear it first before they go down range. hear it first before they go down range. You know, the the shock and awe is great You know, the the shock and awe is great You know, the the shock and awe is great and you see it on television. It's a and you see it on television. It's a and you see it on television. It's a totally different thing when it's

29:06 totally different thing when it's totally different thing when it's happening to, you know, one of your happening to, you know, one of your happening to, you know, one of your airmen or or several of your airmen that airmen or or several of your airmen that airmen or or several of your airmen that are getting ready to go and you can see are getting ready to go and you can see are getting ready to go and you can see it in their eyes. They're not fully engaged in what's They're not fully engaged in what's about to happen just yet. about to happen just yet. about to happen just yet. But we got to get them there before they But we got to get them there before they

29:19 But we got to get them there before they get there. get there. get there. And often times it's the conversations And often times it's the conversations And often times it's the conversations that we have when we go through the that we have when we go through the that we have when we go through the training process through readiness, you training process through readiness, you training process through readiness, you know, preparing the families for it, know, preparing the families for it, know, preparing the families for it, too. You know, this is the reality of too. You know, this is the reality of too. You know, this is the reality of what your your husband or wife joined

29:30 what your your husband or wife joined what your your husband or wife joined our organization to be a part of. So our organization to be a part of. So our organization to be a part of. So let's have that conversation about what let's have that conversation about what let's have that conversation about what this really means. this really means. this really means. And And And that reality is is is not a bad thing. that reality is is is not a bad thing. that reality is is is not a bad thing. It's not anything that scares them but I It's not anything that scares them but I It's not anything that scares them but I think to put it into perspective so they

29:42 think to put it into perspective so they think to put it into perspective so they can start taking themselves just a can start taking themselves just a can start taking themselves just a little more seriously. little more seriously. little more seriously. You know, not every day because we can't You know, not every day because we can't You know, not every day because we can't do that every day. That's a stick up the do that every day. That's a stick up the do that every day. That's a stick up the butt. butt. butt. Can I say that? Sure. You're You're Can I say that? Sure. You're You're Can I say that? Sure. You're You're good, Chief. It's all good.

29:57 But I think the the reality of of But I think the the reality of of readiness and what that means to us up readiness and what that means to us up readiness and what that means to us up here here here is something that we have to take to is something that we have to take to is something that we have to take to heart. And when we see our heart. And when we see our heart. And when we see our service members do that, it's amazing service members do that, it's amazing service members do that, it's amazing that when it's time for them to go do that when it's time for them to go do that when it's time for them to go do what they need to do and and they switch what they need to do and and they switch

30:09 what they need to do and and they switch that flip or flip flip that switch, it's that flip or flip flip that switch, it's that flip or flip flip that switch, it's amazing amazing amazing the level of professionalism, level of the level of professionalism, level of the level of professionalism, level of engagement, level of focus that they engagement, level of focus that they engagement, level of focus that they have and most importantly the level of have and most importantly the level of have and most importantly the level of situational awareness they have not just situational awareness they have not just situational awareness they have not just about what they're doing but about the

30:21 about what they're doing but about the about what they're doing but about the people that are going to employ with people that are going to employ with people that are going to employ with them. them. them. I mean I mean I mean I said employ but deploy I said employ but deploy I said employ but deploy because now they're starting to look at because now they're starting to look at because now they're starting to look at the young person to the left and to the the young person to the left and to the the young person to the left and to the right. Are they fully engaged? Are they right. Are they fully engaged? Are they right. Are they fully engaged? Are they ready to do what they're doing? Are they

30:34 ready to do what they're doing? Are they ready to do what they're doing? Are they Are they really in there with us? You Are they really in there with us? You Are they really in there with us? You know, what are some of the things on know, what are some of the things on know, what are some of the things on their mind or when they're down range? their mind or when they're down range? their mind or when they're down range? And that's some of the things I found And that's some of the things I found And that's some of the things I found out when we first started going that out when we first started going that out when we first started going that they were one They were looking for

30:44 they were one They were looking for they were one They were looking for leadership. leadership. leadership. They would follow your lead but you had They would follow your lead but you had They would follow your lead but you had to be resolute. But you also had to have to be resolute. But you also had to have to be resolute. But you also had to have that humanity still there. I mean, you that humanity still there. I mean, you that humanity still there. I mean, you know, you weren't going up doing the the know, you weren't going up doing the the know, you weren't going up doing the the hugs on everybody but at the same time a hugs on everybody but at the same time a hugs on everybody but at the same time a hand on the shoulder, "Hey, are you Are

30:57 hand on the shoulder, "Hey, are you Are hand on the shoulder, "Hey, are you Are you with us? You know, how are things you with us? You know, how are things you with us? You know, how are things back home?" Those things made a back home?" Those things made a back home?" Those things made a difference to those troops. And man, difference to those troops. And man, difference to those troops. And man, when you ask those questions and it when you ask those questions and it when you ask those questions and it wasn't just to get them to break down wasn't just to get them to break down wasn't just to get them to break down but it was to get them to get them to

31:09 but it was to get them to get them to but it was to get them to get them to let you them know or let you know that let you them know or let you know that let you them know or let you know that they trusted you they trusted you they trusted you and and and if they trusted you enough to share with if they trusted you enough to share with if they trusted you enough to share with what was going on what was going on what was going on they expected you to trust him enough to they expected you to trust him enough to they expected you to trust him enough to do the job. do the job. do the job. And they would. And they would. And they would. And they still do to this day. I'm I'm And they still do to this day. I'm I'm And they still do to this day. I'm I'm so impressed with the men and women we so impressed with the men and women we

31:28 so impressed with the men and women we have in uniform when we send them down have in uniform when we send them down have in uniform when we send them down range but more importantly I'm impressed range but more importantly I'm impressed range but more importantly I'm impressed with the leaders who honestly remember with the leaders who honestly remember with the leaders who honestly remember that, you know that, you know that, you know there are so many things that you have there are so many things that you have there are so many things that you have to do and I used to say this as the SEA to do and I used to say this as the SEA to do and I used to say this as the SEA when I would go out to talk to our

31:41 when I would go out to talk to our when I would go out to talk to our service members about our frontline service members about our frontline service members about our frontline supervisors. There's a hell of a lot of supervisors. There's a hell of a lot of supervisors. There's a hell of a lot of things you could delegate but you can't things you could delegate but you can't things you could delegate but you can't delegate humanity. delegate humanity. delegate humanity. That's yours and yours alone. That's yours and yours alone. That's yours and yours alone. And your people see that in you when And your people see that in you when And your people see that in you when they go out to do whatever you charge they go out to do whatever you charge they go out to do whatever you charge them to do. them to do. them to do. They will fight the good fight for you

31:56 They will fight the good fight for you They will fight the good fight for you but they need to know that there's a but they need to know that there's a but they need to know that there's a human that's leading them. human that's leading them. human that's leading them. They will do their absolute best and They will do their absolute best and They will do their absolute best and when things are a rough they expect that when things are a rough they expect that when things are a rough they expect that you can support them in that area and you can support them in that area and you can support them in that area and when they rebound they'll go out and

32:08 when they rebound they'll go out and when they rebound they'll go out and then they'll kick ass for you every then they'll kick ass for you every then they'll kick ass for you every time. And I've seen that at every level time. And I've seen that at every level time. And I've seen that at every level or phase of employment and deployment or phase of employment and deployment or phase of employment and deployment that I've had to do in in my career from that I've had to do in in my career from that I've had to do in in my career from Shinseki's calls, from Southern Watch, Shinseki's calls, from Southern Watch, Shinseki's calls, from Southern Watch, from Enduring Freedom and especially

32:21 from Enduring Freedom and especially from Enduring Freedom and especially Okay, I'll stop with this one. This is Okay, I'll stop with this one. This is Okay, I'll stop with this one. This is one where it kind of hit me at home. We one where it kind of hit me at home. We one where it kind of hit me at home. We were getting ready to go out to the were getting ready to go out to the were getting ready to go out to the airport and one of my airmen, security airport and one of my airmen, security airport and one of my airmen, security forces, his grandmother was there. forces, his grandmother was there. forces, his grandmother was there. And there's nothing like somebody's

32:34 And there's nothing like somebody's And there's nothing like somebody's grandma pulling you to the side to say, grandma pulling you to the side to say, grandma pulling you to the side to say, "Hey "Hey "Hey it's my grandson. it's my grandson. it's my grandson. I'm giving him to you. Bring him back I'm giving him to you. Bring him back I'm giving him to you. Bring him back home." home." home." And I'm like [clears throat] And I'm like [clears throat] And I'm like [clears throat] What's she have to do that? What's she have to do that? What's she have to do that? But the That was That was the reality of But the That was That was the reality of But the That was That was the reality of of what we what we do and especially in of what we what we do and especially in of what we what we do and especially in the guard because there is such there's

32:52 the guard because there is such there's the guard because there is such there's such closeness. You know, it's not just, such closeness. You know, it's not just, such closeness. You know, it's not just, you know, about, you know, the troops, you know, about, you know, the troops, you know, about, you know, the troops, wife, kids and maybe other immediate wife, kids and maybe other immediate wife, kids and maybe other immediate family members. You know about their family members. You know about their family members. You know about their extended family because that's community extended family because that's community extended family because that's community that they're part of. And they have

33:00 Losing Identity After the Uniform

33:02 that they're part of. And they have that they're part of. And they have these expectations that hey, our guys these expectations that hey, our guys these expectations that hey, our guys and gals got to go off and do great and gals got to go off and do great and gals got to go off and do great things and come back home. things and come back home. things and come back home. That's part of that training too that I That's part of that training too that I That's part of that training too that I talked about a few minutes ago where the talked about a few minutes ago where the talked about a few minutes ago where the reality for leaders is that if that reality for leaders is that if that

33:13 reality for leaders is that if that doesn't happen you've got to be prepared doesn't happen you've got to be prepared doesn't happen you've got to be prepared to deal with that too. to deal with that too. to deal with that too. You mentioned the humanity piece and You mentioned the humanity piece and You mentioned the humanity piece and right now right now right now when you talk about deployments, you when you talk about deployments, you when you talk about deployments, you talk about the military, it tends to talk about the military, it tends to talk about the military, it tends to lead towards PTSD. There's so much talk lead towards PTSD. There's so much talk lead towards PTSD. There's so much talk about PTSD. about PTSD. about PTSD. When I think about PTSD, I I think the When I think about PTSD, I I think the When I think about PTSD, I I think the standpoint of I don't think it's

33:35 standpoint of I don't think it's standpoint of I don't think it's the trauma of what the member's gone the trauma of what the member's gone the trauma of what the member's gone through. I think it's the fact that they through. I think it's the fact that they through. I think it's the fact that they were such a tight unit during that were such a tight unit during that were such a tight unit during that deployment and they were that training, deployment and they were that training, deployment and they were that training, that preparedness made them that preparedness made them that preparedness made them a critical piece of a team and then when a critical piece of a team and then when a critical piece of a team and then when they come home or if they no longer they come home or if they no longer they come home or if they no longer serve, they're losing that element of

33:56 serve, they're losing that element of serve, they're losing that element of team and culture and belonging. team and culture and belonging. team and culture and belonging. You mentioning the human piece of that You mentioning the human piece of that You mentioning the human piece of that there were many times that I was working there were many times that I was working there were many times that I was working for senior leaders and perhaps I didn't for senior leaders and perhaps I didn't for senior leaders and perhaps I didn't answer an email till later that answer an email till later that answer an email till later that afternoon and they're like, "Mike,

34:10 afternoon and they're like, "Mike, afternoon and they're like, "Mike, what's going on, you know, we you're not what's going on, you know, we you're not what's going on, you know, we you're not answering my emails." "Sir, ma'am, I I answering my emails." "Sir, ma'am, I I answering my emails." "Sir, ma'am, I I had Airman Snuffy in my office sharing had Airman Snuffy in my office sharing had Airman Snuffy in my office sharing some personal moments. What's more some personal moments. What's more some personal moments. What's more important? That human element? His important? That human element? His important? That human element? His parents entrusted me parents entrusted me

34:26 parents entrusted me to take care of him, right? So that's to take care of him, right? So that's to take care of him, right? So that's what I'm doing. Yes, I will get to your what I'm doing. Yes, I will get to your what I'm doing. Yes, I will get to your emails. I'll get to your TPS reports. emails. I'll get to your TPS reports. emails. I'll get to your TPS reports. I'll get to all the things that to I'll get to all the things that to I'll get to all the things that to provide the data to our senior leaders provide the data to our senior leaders provide the data to our senior leaders and, you know, go up the chain. But and, you know, go up the chain. But

34:40 and, you know, go up the chain. But where in this this world of leadership where in this this world of leadership where in this this world of leadership is it more important to take care of is it more important to take care of is it more important to take care of that Airman when they come to your door that Airman when they come to your door that Airman when they come to your door asking for help?" asking for help?" asking for help?" Hey, can I can I flip the script on you Hey, can I can I flip the script on you Hey, can I can I flip the script on you a little bit? a little bit? a little bit? >> I I know you're you're asking questions >> I I know you're you're asking questions

34:54 >> I I know you're you're asking questions but you just said something that's but you just said something that's but you just said something that's important to me. important to me. important to me. You know, we would have these You know, we would have these You know, we would have these conversations in this last position conversations in this last position conversations in this last position again where I would remind a lot of our again where I would remind a lot of our again where I would remind a lot of our senior enlisted senior enlisted senior enlisted when I would talk to them, especially when I would talk to them, especially when I would talk to them, especially when I go to the when I go to the when I go to the the chief's orientation courses that the chief's orientation courses that the chief's orientation courses that hey, you know, you can do a lot. I said

35:11 hey, you know, you can do a lot. I said hey, you know, you can do a lot. I said but at the end of the day when people but at the end of the day when people but at the end of the day when people talk about falling on their sword for talk about falling on their sword for talk about falling on their sword for this that or the other this that or the other this that or the other it's a commander that ultimately does. it's a commander that ultimately does. it's a commander that ultimately does. With that in mind and and you talk With that in mind and and you talk With that in mind and and you talk about, you know, having to do to deal about, you know, having to do to deal

35:25 about, you know, having to do to deal with an an Airman Snuffy, what that mean with an an Airman Snuffy, what that mean with an an Airman Snuffy, what that mean to you to know that ultimately to you to know that ultimately to you to know that ultimately ultimately everyone that's on that ultimately everyone that's on that ultimately everyone that's on that roster, every one of that's on that that roster, every one of that's on that that roster, every one of that's on that that that big spreadsheet, that big spreadsheet, that big spreadsheet, they were your responsibility. What did they were your responsibility. What did they were your responsibility. What did that mean to you?

35:39 that mean to you? that mean to you? >> I struggle with balance. I would spend >> I struggle with balance. I would spend >> I struggle with balance. I would spend all weekend all weekend all weekend designing motivational speeches, designing motivational speeches, designing motivational speeches, PowerPoints, stories, you name it that PowerPoints, stories, you name it that PowerPoints, stories, you name it that were always shaped around were always shaped around were always shaped around my Airmen because I I cared so much and my Airmen because I I cared so much and my Airmen because I I cared so much and I really considered them to be my my

35:57 I really considered them to be my my I really considered them to be my my family. And so I lost myself in that family. And so I lost myself in that family. And so I lost myself in that whereas I didn't give my kids and my whereas I didn't give my kids and my whereas I didn't give my kids and my wife as much attention as I was giving wife as much attention as I was giving wife as much attention as I was giving my Airmen because I did take it so my Airmen because I did take it so my Airmen because I did take it so seriously about how important they were seriously about how important they were seriously about how important they were to me. So in my when I look back at

36:14 to me. So in my when I look back at to me. So in my when I look back at those times, I I wish I had a little bit those times, I I wish I had a little bit those times, I I wish I had a little bit more balance when it came to that more balance when it came to that more balance when it came to that responsibility because I truly took that responsibility because I truly took that responsibility because I truly took that responsibility to heart. And like you responsibility to heart. And like you responsibility to heart. And like you said, a perfect example, the first time said, a perfect example, the first time said, a perfect example, the first time I was a commander, you know me as a

36:27 I was a commander, you know me as a I was a commander, you know me as a photographer, I took everyone's picture photographer, I took everyone's picture photographer, I took everyone's picture right the first week I was in leadership right the first week I was in leadership right the first week I was in leadership position. I took everyone's picture. You position. I took everyone's picture. You position. I took everyone's picture. You know, they're Oh, why are we doing this? know, they're Oh, why are we doing this? know, they're Oh, why are we doing this? This is this is so dumb. This is this is so dumb. This is this is so dumb. I took everybody's pictures. I took everybody's pictures.

36:40 I took everybody's pictures. I printed them out. I put them inside I printed them out. I put them inside I printed them out. I put them inside personalized Christmas cards and I personalized Christmas cards and I personalized Christmas cards and I didn't send them to them. I sent them to didn't send them to them. I sent them to didn't send them to them. I sent them to their spouse and their parents. their spouse and their parents. their spouse and their parents. And I just went Heather and I just flew And I just went Heather and I just flew And I just went Heather and I just flew down to Charlotte for the Christmas down to Charlotte for the Christmas

36:57 down to Charlotte for the Christmas party which that's I was the commander party which that's I was the commander party which that's I was the commander there before I retired a few years ago. there before I retired a few years ago. there before I retired a few years ago. I was the commander down there. And so I was the commander down there. And so I was the commander down there. And so they invited us to the Christmas party. they invited us to the Christmas party. they invited us to the Christmas party. One of those Airmen who's now a Chief One of those Airmen who's now a Chief One of those Airmen who's now a Chief Master Sergeant pulled me aside Master Sergeant pulled me aside

37:11 Master Sergeant pulled me aside and and and once again he didn't know me. I I had once again he didn't know me. I I had once again he didn't know me. I I had just met him as my time as the commander just met him as my time as the commander just met him as my time as the commander down in Charlotte. He pulled me aside down in Charlotte. He pulled me aside down in Charlotte. He pulled me aside and he said, "Mike that picture you took and he said, "Mike that picture you took and he said, "Mike that picture you took of me is still on my wife's bedside of me is still on my wife's bedside of me is still on my wife's bedside table. That 5 by 7 is still on her the table. That 5 by 7 is still on her the

37:28 table. That 5 by 7 is still on her the bedside table. That is her favorite bedside table. That is her favorite bedside table. That is her favorite photo of me." photo of me." photo of me." I took that picture almost 10 years ago. I took that picture almost 10 years ago. I took that picture almost 10 years ago. What? What? What? >> That gives me so much more pride and >> That gives me so much more pride and >> That gives me so much more pride and overwhelming joy knowing that his wife overwhelming joy knowing that his wife overwhelming joy knowing that his wife knew that there was a commander, a knew that there was a commander, a knew that there was a commander, a leader that was working with her husband

37:48 leader that was working with her husband leader that was working with her husband that would do that. that would do that. that would do that. And so that I just I just care and but And so that I just I just care and but And so that I just I just care and but that's that's that's at the same time like you said, falling at the same time like you said, falling at the same time like you said, falling on the sword, I always told my Airmen, I on the sword, I always told my Airmen, I on the sword, I always told my Airmen, I said said said I will eventually take off this uniform I will eventually take off this uniform I will eventually take off this uniform because I was defending you, not because

38:06 because I was defending you, not because because I was defending you, not because I was searching for that next rank, that I was searching for that next rank, that I was searching for that next rank, that next opportunity. I'm going to take the next opportunity. I'm going to take the next opportunity. I'm going to take the uniform off because there's a point in uniform off because there's a point in uniform off because there's a point in my life where I know I will no longer be my life where I know I will no longer be my life where I know I will no longer be able to serve you. Well. Well. So who's doing the interview? Are you So who's doing the interview? Are you So who's doing the interview? Are you Are you Are you asking me more questions

38:23 Are you Are you asking me more questions Are you Are you asking me more questions here but I had to ask that because here but I had to ask that because here but I had to ask that because obviously you do. You You You ask a lot obviously you do. You You You ask a lot obviously you do. You You You ask a lot of questions of people and that one just of questions of people and that one just of questions of people and that one just listening to you resonated with me about listening to you resonated with me about listening to you resonated with me about the care and concern for our Airmen. the care and concern for our Airmen. the care and concern for our Airmen. Sometimes from a command perspective it

38:38 Sometimes from a command perspective it Sometimes from a command perspective it can only come from your words. You know, can only come from your words. You know, can only come from your words. You know, we can have our own thoughts and ideas we can have our own thoughts and ideas we can have our own thoughts and ideas about, you know, what how a commander about, you know, what how a commander about, you know, what how a commander feels about it but the from from your feels about it but the from from your feels about it but the from from your perspective what that that means and I perspective what that that means and I perspective what that that means and I think that kind of carries over into the

38:48 think that kind of carries over into the think that kind of carries over into the way you conduct your interviews. way you conduct your interviews. way you conduct your interviews. So I wanted to get that out there. Thank So I wanted to get that out there. Thank So I wanted to get that out there. Thank you. you. you. So you mentioned a little bit earlier So you mentioned a little bit earlier So you mentioned a little bit earlier about being the senior enlisted about being the senior enlisted about being the senior enlisted advisor to the Chief of National Guard advisor to the Chief of National Guard advisor to the Chief of National Guard Bureau. Bureau. Bureau. What did that responsibility feel like

39:04 What did that responsibility feel like What did that responsibility feel like on day one? I mean, how many Airmen and on day one? I mean, how many Airmen and on day one? I mean, how many Airmen and soldiers because now you're in charge of soldiers because now you're in charge of soldiers because now you're in charge of the Army Guard, right? And the Air the Army Guard, right? And the Air the Army Guard, right? And the Air Guard. Guard. Guard. What was that responsibility like on day What was that responsibility like on day What was that responsibility like on day one? one? one? It ain't. It ain't. It ain't. So when I first got the call from So when I first got the call from So when I first got the call from General Hokanson that I got the job it General Hokanson that I got the job it General Hokanson that I got the job it was going to be Well, it was it was a

39:24 was going to be Well, it was it was a was going to be Well, it was it was a Monday. Monday. Monday. And I had to pull over to the side of And I had to pull over to the side of And I had to pull over to the side of the road because he's a he's a very the road because he's a he's a very the road because he's a he's a very engaging person. You engaging person. You engaging person. You You know General Hokanson. And he said, You know General Hokanson. And he said, You know General Hokanson. And he said, "Hey, Tony." He said, "This is Dan." And "Hey, Tony." He said, "This is Dan." And "Hey, Tony." He said, "This is Dan." And I and I had to think and I looked at his

39:36 I and I had to think and I looked at his I and I had to think and I looked at his phone and I'm like, "Oh crap, this is phone and I'm like, "Oh crap, this is phone and I'm like, "Oh crap, this is coming from DC." Four star General Dan? So I I I pull off the side of the road So I I I pull off the side of the road and I was I was I happen to be in Panama and I was I was I happen to be in Panama and I was I was I happen to be in Panama City, Florida. I was at First Air Force City, Florida. I was at First Air Force City, Florida. I was at First Air Force at the time working with Lieutenant at the time working with Lieutenant at the time working with Lieutenant General Sasseville. Then Major General.

39:51 General Sasseville. Then Major General. General Sasseville. Then Major General. Uh no, he was Lieutenant General. Uh no, he was Lieutenant General. Uh no, he was Lieutenant General. And so, when he said it, I'm like, "Yes, And so, when he said it, I'm like, "Yes, And so, when he said it, I'm like, "Yes, sir." sir." sir." And he said, "Just wanted to call and And he said, "Just wanted to call and And he said, "Just wanted to call and let you know." He said, "I I selected let you know." He said, "I I selected let you know." He said, "I I selected you." And he said, "Are you ready to you." And he said, "Are you ready to you." And he said, "Are you ready to take this ride with me?" And I'm like,

40:01 take this ride with me?" And I'm like, take this ride with me?" And I'm like, "Absolutely." He said, "You don't need "Absolutely." He said, "You don't need "Absolutely." He said, "You don't need to think about it." I said, "No, sir." I to think about it." I said, "No, sir." I to think about it." I said, "No, sir." I said, "Any thinking I was going to do said, "Any thinking I was going to do said, "Any thinking I was going to do I would have done before I pressed send I would have done before I pressed send I would have done before I pressed send on my application." on my application." on my application." He said, He said, He said, He said, "How soon can you get here?"

40:13 He said, "How soon can you get here?" He said, "How soon can you get here?" I'm like, "How soon do you need me?" He I'm like, "How soon do you need me?" He I'm like, "How soon do you need me?" He said, "Well, said, "Well, said, "Well, we've got a trip in a couple of weeks." we've got a trip in a couple of weeks." we've got a trip in a couple of weeks." I said, "Oh." I said, "Oh." I said, "Oh." Oh. Oh. Oh. I said, "This is real." So, after I got off the phone, I sat So, after I got off the phone, I sat right there on the side of the road and right there on the side of the road and right there on the side of the road and I was thinking about what I had just

40:32 I was thinking about what I had just I was thinking about what I had just done. done. done. And and now I'm going to be there with And and now I'm going to be there with And and now I'm going to be there with this four-star. And we've got this four-star. And we've got this four-star. And we've got a hundred and a hundred and a hundred and It was like three It was 325,000 It was like three It was 325,000 It was like three It was 325,000 soldiers. soldiers. soldiers. It was 105,000 airmen at the time. It It was 105,000 airmen at the time. It It was 105,000 airmen at the time. It had to fluctuate a little bit. So, we've had to fluctuate a little bit. So, we've

40:49 had to fluctuate a little bit. So, we've got 430,000 service members. That got 430,000 service members. That got 430,000 service members. That doesn't include the civilians that were doesn't include the civilians that were doesn't include the civilians that were part of the National Guard. And I'm part of the National Guard. And I'm part of the National Guard. And I'm like, like, like, "This is real now." It was real before "This is real now." It was real before "This is real now." It was real before during the interview process during the interview process during the interview process when he called me to say I got the job, when he called me to say I got the job, when he called me to say I got the job, but this is real now because there's no but this is real now because there's no but this is real now because there's no turning back.

41:06 turning back. turning back. And And And and you start to reflect I'm sure you've and you start to reflect I'm sure you've and you start to reflect I'm sure you've probably had some of the jobs you've had probably had some of the jobs you've had probably had some of the jobs you've had how in the heck did I get here? You know, you look in the mirror and You know, you look in the mirror and you're like, "That dude?" Um and Um and and of course I was grateful. I prayed and of course I was grateful. I prayed and of course I was grateful. I prayed about it. And about it. And about it. And when I met him when I met him when I met him in the capacity of working with him, I in the capacity of working with him, I in the capacity of working with him, I was like, "This is the right choice." was like, "This is the right choice."

41:32 was like, "This is the right choice." And he was the right person. And I was like, "Okay, I'm ready for And I was like, "Okay, I'm ready for it." it." it." And And And not once was I ever intimidated by the not once was I ever intimidated by the not once was I ever intimidated by the job job job because I was surrounded by great because I was surrounded by great because I was surrounded by great people. And of course that that meant people. And of course that that meant people. And of course that that meant the people like yourself. Not because the people like yourself. Not because the people like yourself. Not because we're talking about people like yourself

41:49 we're talking about people like yourself we're talking about people like yourself that had supported me since the day we that had supported me since the day we that had supported me since the day we met each other. met each other. met each other. So, I was not lacking in people to call So, I was not lacking in people to call So, I was not lacking in people to call on. And and if I had to, you know, cry on. And and if I had to, you know, cry on. And and if I had to, you know, cry and say, "Can I hide in your closet and say, "Can I hide in your closet and say, "Can I hide in your closet for a couple of weeks?" But never got to for a couple of weeks?" But never got to

42:01 for a couple of weeks?" But never got to that point. that point. that point. And I thought I understood the impact that I thought I understood the impact that it would that it would that it would that that the job had the position had. Or that the job had the position had. Or that the job had the position had. Or even me, I'll say that. Um even me, I'll say that. Um even me, I'll say that. Um not until I actually went out not until I actually went out not until I actually went out in that capacity in that capacity in that capacity and I went by myself. and I went by myself. and I went by myself. And that was one of the things that I And that was one of the things that I

42:23 And that was one of the things that I really really really thanked General Hokanson for because, thanked General Hokanson for because, thanked General Hokanson for because, you know, a lot of people would tell us, you know, a lot of people would tell us, you know, a lot of people would tell us, "Hey, you guys are leadership team. You "Hey, you guys are leadership team. You "Hey, you guys are leadership team. You need to go out together. You need to go need to go out together. You need to go need to go out together. You need to go out together." And he said, "Tony, like out together." And he said, "Tony, like out together." And he said, "Tony, like you." He likes to call me just Tony. He

42:35 you." He likes to call me just Tony. He you." He likes to call me just Tony. He He said, you know, "No pretenses." He said, you know, "No pretenses." He said, you know, "No pretenses." He said, "Listen." He said, He said, "Listen." He said, He said, "Listen." He said, "You know, I'm the principal for the "You know, I'm the principal for the "You know, I'm the principal for the National Guard Bureau." He said, "So, if National Guard Bureau." He said, "So, if National Guard Bureau." He said, "So, if you go out with me, he said you're you go out with me, he said you're you go out with me, he said you're always going to be my plus one." He always going to be my plus one." He always going to be my plus one." He said, "The influence that I need you to said, "The influence that I need you to said, "The influence that I need you to have, I need you to have.

42:48 have, I need you to have. have, I need you to have. So, we need to do the split ops. So, we need to do the split ops. So, we need to do the split ops. And, you know, we can get back together And, you know, we can get back together And, you know, we can get back together when we need to be the places we need to when we need to be the places we need to when we need to be the places we need to be together. But you see, I need you to be together. But you see, I need you to be together. But you see, I need you to be my eyes, my ears, and I need you to be my eyes, my ears, and I need you to be my eyes, my ears, and I need you to be my voice. But I also need you to be

43:00 The Truth About Military Retirement Nobody Talks About

43:00 be my voice. But I also need you to be be my voice. But I also need you to be you. you. you. And you can't be you when they're always And you can't be you when they're always And you can't be you when they're always looking at me." looking at me." looking at me." And I'm thinking, "Great advice." And so, that first time going out and And so, that first time going out and and them waiting to see me, you know, and them waiting to see me, you know, and them waiting to see me, you know, introduce the boss was like, "No, it's introduce the boss was like, "No, it's introduce the boss was like, "No, it's me." me." me." And speaking on behalf of I'm like,

43:19 And speaking on behalf of I'm like, And speaking on behalf of I'm like, "This is "This is "This is this is heavy. This is real." But the humanity piece, Mike, that's the But the humanity piece, Mike, that's the piece that helped me to understand what piece that helped me to understand what piece that helped me to understand what my responsibilities were and how I was my responsibilities were and how I was my responsibilities were and how I was going to be successful if I was going to going to be successful if I was going to going to be successful if I was going to be successful. That was going to be my be successful. That was going to be my be successful. That was going to be my way in.

43:35 way in. way in. And it couldn't be anything else because And it couldn't be anything else because And it couldn't be anything else because I wasn't going to be able to be I wasn't going to be able to be I wasn't going to be able to be superficial. superficial. superficial. That wasn't going to work. And if I was That wasn't going to work. And if I was That wasn't going to work. And if I was going to be one of those folks that going to be one of those folks that going to be one of those folks that would just skate across the top where I would just skate across the top where I would just skate across the top where I would come in, say some words, and then

43:46 would come in, say some words, and then would come in, say some words, and then fly out within maybe an hour or so fly out within maybe an hour or so fly out within maybe an hour or so there, there was never going to be any there, there was never going to be any there, there was never going to be any impact. impact. impact. And I had no idea that I had been set up And I had no idea that I had been set up And I had no idea that I had been set up for success over all those years. for success over all those years. for success over all those years. And coming full circle to what we talked And coming full circle to what we talked And coming full circle to what we talked about maybe half hour 45 minutes ago

44:01 about maybe half hour 45 minutes ago about maybe half hour 45 minutes ago from my humble beginnings, you know, from my humble beginnings, you know, from my humble beginnings, you know, with eight people in a compact with eight people in a compact with eight people in a compact environment where environment where environment where people want to be heard. people want to be heard. people want to be heard. They want to be respected for who they They want to be respected for who they They want to be respected for who they are. are. are. They want structure. They want a leader They want structure. They want a leader They want structure. They want a leader that'll tell them the truth even if that

44:16 that'll tell them the truth even if that that'll tell them the truth even if that truth isn't what they want to hear. truth isn't what they want to hear. truth isn't what they want to hear. And And And that's how it worked for me. that's how it worked for me. that's how it worked for me. And that's what I did for And that's what I did for And that's what I did for for four years. for four years. for four years. Couple times made a fool of myself and I Couple times made a fool of myself and I Couple times made a fool of myself and I was okay with that cuz I was also was okay with that cuz I was also was okay with that cuz I was also taught, you know, if you're if you're

44:33 taught, you know, if you're if you're taught, you know, if you're if you're going to be in a leadership role you're going to be in a leadership role you're going to be in a leadership role you're you're afraid to make a fool of you're afraid to make a fool of you're afraid to make a fool of yourself, you're probably not going to yourself, you're probably not going to yourself, you're probably not going to do well. do well. do well. Because you won't be able to be relaxed Because you won't be able to be relaxed Because you won't be able to be relaxed around them and they will know it. around them and they will know it. around them and they will know it. They will know it. And then of course,

44:44 They will know it. And then of course, They will know it. And then of course, that first leadership lesson, you will that first leadership lesson, you will that first leadership lesson, you will not be approached because you will not not be approached because you will not not be approached because you will not come off as approachable. come off as approachable. come off as approachable. You mentioned truth and that perfectly You mentioned truth and that perfectly You mentioned truth and that perfectly leads into the next question. leads into the next question. leads into the next question. When you stepped into this role, we were When you stepped into this role, we were

44:58 When you stepped into this role, we were this was an intense time. Particularly this was an intense time. Particularly this was an intense time. Particularly with the pandemic response. with the pandemic response. with the pandemic response. What kind of What kind of What kind of conflict were you dealing with? I conflict were you dealing with? I conflict were you dealing with? I imagine that there were soldiers and imagine that there were soldiers and imagine that there were soldiers and airmen that were airmen that were airmen that were in disagreement in disagreement in disagreement to what we were doing in the pandemic to what we were doing in the pandemic to what we were doing in the pandemic response. response. response. Mostly with with these vaccines. So, Mostly with with these vaccines. So, Mostly with with these vaccines. So, where how did you how did you address

45:24 where how did you how did you address where how did you how did you address that challenge as the leader? Man, I tell you what, um you're a smart Man, I tell you what, um you're a smart dude. You know that? You You say these dude. You know that? You You say these dude. You know that? You You say these things that just kind of always answer things that just kind of always answer things that just kind of always answer themselves. You know, it started before themselves. You know, it started before themselves. You know, it started before before General Hokanson and I got there. before General Hokanson and I got there. before General Hokanson and I got there. And it started with General Hokanson and

45:40 And it started with General Hokanson and And it started with General Hokanson and myself and myself at the First Air myself and myself at the First Air myself and myself at the First Air Force. You know, being in Florida, it was one You know, being in Florida, it was one of those states where of those states where of those states where we don't want to wear a mask here. We're we don't want to wear a mask here. We're we don't want to wear a mask here. We're doing our own thing. However, we're part doing our own thing. However, we're part doing our own thing. However, we're part of the United States Armed Forces. of the United States Armed Forces. of the United States Armed Forces. We're going to do what we're told to do

45:55 We're going to do what we're told to do We're going to do what we're told to do by our leaders. by our leaders. by our leaders. And and we were working our butts off And and we were working our butts off And and we were working our butts off and working General Sasseville and and and working General Sasseville and and and working General Sasseville and and of course he big of course he big of course he big quite the gentleman. He said, "Hey, uh quite the gentleman. He said, "Hey, uh quite the gentleman. He said, "Hey, uh we're doing great things." He said, "But we're doing great things." He said, "But we're doing great things." He said, "But listen, you're going to have to go

46:06 listen, you're going to have to go listen, you're going to have to go home." home." home." I'm like, "Sir, if you're here, I'm I'm like, "Sir, if you're here, I'm I'm like, "Sir, if you're here, I'm here." He said, "No." He said, "Both of here." He said, "No." He said, "Both of here." He said, "No." He said, "Both of us can't be here because if something us can't be here because if something us can't be here because if something happens to both of us, that's not good. happens to both of us, that's not good. happens to both of us, that's not good. So, you have to go home." So, you have to go home." So, you have to go home." And so, that's part of the service piece And so, that's part of the service piece

46:18 And so, that's part of the service piece is understanding that you want to do is understanding that you want to do is understanding that you want to do everything that you can, but sometimes everything that you can, but sometimes everything that you can, but sometimes what you need to do is you need to get what you need to do is you need to get what you need to do is you need to get out of the way so things can get done. out of the way so things can get done. out of the way so things can get done. And then working with General Hokanson, And then working with General Hokanson, And then working with General Hokanson, it was we have got to lead from the it was we have got to lead from the

46:28 it was we have got to lead from the front. front. front. We're going to go out and we're going to We're going to go out and we're going to We're going to go out and we're going to visit our youngest of so of our service visit our youngest of so of our service visit our youngest of so of our service members, our airmen and our soldiers. members, our airmen and our soldiers. members, our airmen and our soldiers. And you talk about some amazing people And you talk about some amazing people And you talk about some amazing people that were doing great things in their that were doing great things in their that were doing great things in their states. states.

46:39 states. We're going to wear a mask everywhere we We're going to wear a mask everywhere we We're going to wear a mask everywhere we go. I I I tell you what, man, go. I I I tell you what, man, go. I I I tell you what, man, I had never picked my nose so much and I had never picked my nose so much and I had never picked my nose so much and it wasn't me. It was I mean, everywhere it wasn't me. It was I mean, everywhere it wasn't me. It was I mean, everywhere we went in the Pentagon, we had to have we went in the Pentagon, we had to have we went in the Pentagon, we had to have a COVID test before we went in. a COVID test before we went in. a COVID test before we went in. And General Milley was going to have his

46:54 And General Milley was going to have his And General Milley was going to have his meetings. meetings. meetings. So, we had to do that. And we were not So, we had to do that. And we were not So, we had to do that. And we were not going to meet with him until we had a going to meet with him until we had a going to meet with him until we had a COVID test. COVID test. COVID test. We were not going to go to some places We were not going to go to some places We were not going to go to some places around the NCR unless we had a COVID around the NCR unless we had a COVID around the NCR unless we had a COVID test. test. test. We're not going to go We're not going to go We're not going to go especially visiting states especially visiting states

47:11 especially visiting states until they had one up our noses and we until they had one up our noses and we until they had one up our noses and we were wearing masks everywhere we went. were wearing masks everywhere we went. were wearing masks everywhere we went. And we went there and we dealt with And we went there and we dealt with And we went there and we dealt with those challenges that you were just those challenges that you were just those challenges that you were just talking about where talking about where talking about where some didn't want to wear a mask. some didn't want to wear a mask. some didn't want to wear a mask. Others knew they had to. We're dealing

47:23 Others knew they had to. We're dealing Others knew they had to. We're dealing with folks that didn't have employment with folks that didn't have employment with folks that didn't have employment anymore. And these are some of our anymore. And these are some of our anymore. And these are some of our guardsmen, you know, where we we guardsmen, you know, where we we guardsmen, you know, where we we employed as many as we could, you know, employed as many as we could, you know, employed as many as we could, you know, through temporary orders. And it was not through temporary orders. And it was not through temporary orders. And it was not just to do it, but because they were

47:32 just to do it, but because they were just to do it, but because they were servicing the community. And so, we had servicing the community. And so, we had servicing the community. And so, we had to deal with those challenges too to to deal with those challenges too to to deal with those challenges too to answer those questions about, you know, answer those questions about, you know, answer those questions about, you know, from the families, you know, what are we from the families, you know, what are we from the families, you know, what are we what are we doing to help them out? what are we doing to help them out? what are we doing to help them out? And we were very honest and open. We

47:42 And we were very honest and open. We And we were very honest and open. We could do as much as we can, but when we could do as much as we can, but when we could do as much as we can, but when we couldn't do anymore, that's all we could couldn't do anymore, that's all we could couldn't do anymore, that's all we could do. do. do. We also sent some of our guardsmen in We also sent some of our guardsmen in We also sent some of our guardsmen in some places that they had never been some places that they had never been some places that they had never been before, but they were ready to go. I before, but they were ready to go. I before, but they were ready to go. I know if you recall in New York where

47:53 know if you recall in New York where know if you recall in New York where they had in some cases three generations they had in some cases three generations they had in some cases three generations of people living in apartments. of people living in apartments. of people living in apartments. And and in some cases all three of those And and in some cases all three of those And and in some cases all three of those generations died. generations died. generations died. And these are our guards our young And these are our guards our young And these are our guards our young service members that were going in service members that were going in service members that were going in there. there. there. And to go in and to be there and that's And to go in and to be there and that's And to go in and to be there and that's what that's what General Hokanson and I

48:08 what that's what General Hokanson and I what that's what General Hokanson and I were very very intentional about was were very very intentional about was were very very intentional about was that we can't let you deal with this by that we can't let you deal with this by that we can't let you deal with this by yourself even though, you know, we know yourself even though, you know, we know yourself even though, you know, we know that we we've got to do the distancing that we we've got to do the distancing that we we've got to do the distancing all those other good things, but at the all those other good things, but at the all those other good things, but at the at the end of the day, you're dealing

48:19 at the end of the day, you're dealing at the end of the day, you're dealing with this so we've got to be out there with this so we've got to be out there with this so we've got to be out there with you. And we did as much as we with you. And we did as much as we with you. And we did as much as we could. could. could. And and when we couldn't, obviously we And and when we couldn't, obviously we And and when we couldn't, obviously we had to stay home ourselves. had to stay home ourselves. had to stay home ourselves. Um but it was tough, but that was a Um but it was tough, but that was a Um but it was tough, but that was a challenge that that I think we were both

48:30 challenge that that I think we were both challenge that that I think we were both built for. And I like saying that too built for. And I like saying that too built for. And I like saying that too about a lot of leaders too. You're built about a lot of leaders too. You're built about a lot of leaders too. You're built for stuff like this because that's where for stuff like this because that's where for stuff like this because that's where the humanity piece comes in. You'll the humanity piece comes in. You'll the humanity piece comes in. You'll You'll get beyond, you know, hey, I've You'll get beyond, you know, hey, I've You'll get beyond, you know, hey, I've got to you know, I've got to follow this

48:41 got to you know, I've got to follow this got to you know, I've got to follow this rule. We're not going to break the law. rule. We're not going to break the law. rule. We're not going to break the law. We can break the rule, but we're not We can break the rule, but we're not We can break the rule, but we're not going to break the law. going to break the law. going to break the law. And we're going to make sure that we do And we're going to make sure that we do And we're going to make sure that we do what we need to do, uh but we're going what we need to do, uh but we're going what we need to do, uh but we're going to stay engaged as much as we can with to stay engaged as much as we can with

48:49 to stay engaged as much as we can with our the youngest of our service members our the youngest of our service members our the youngest of our service members as well as the leaders. as well as the leaders. as well as the leaders. We're going to follow the rules as much We're going to follow the rules as much We're going to follow the rules as much as we can in their state, but we've got as we can in their state, but we've got as we can in their state, but we've got to respect that we've what we've got to to respect that we've what we've got to to respect that we've what we've got to do as military members as well. do as military members as well.

49:00 do as military members as well. And I think we came to a great balance And I think we came to a great balance And I think we came to a great balance with that. It was it was tough to get with that. It was it was tough to get with that. It was it was tough to get there, but we did. It kept us going. It there, but we did. It kept us going. It there, but we did. It kept us going. It kept us busy. kept us busy. kept us busy. We were charged up because our folks We were charged up because our folks We were charged up because our folks were charged up. I mean, everywhere we were charged up. I mean, everywhere we were charged up. I mean, everywhere we went people wanted to help. They wanted

49:12 went people wanted to help. They wanted went people wanted to help. They wanted us to do their part. And then those that us to do their part. And then those that us to do their part. And then those that didn't that didn't want to get vaccines, didn't that didn't want to get vaccines, didn't that didn't want to get vaccines, we had to understand that, too. we had to understand that, too. we had to understand that, too. And we couldn't push the envelope and we And we couldn't push the envelope and we And we couldn't push the envelope and we and we were not going to because if it and we were not going to because if it and we were not going to because if it was going to be their choice, we just

49:24 was going to be their choice, we just was going to be their choice, we just had to stick to had to stick to had to stick to the reality that if that's what you the reality that if that's what you the reality that if that's what you wanting to want to do, I get it. wanting to want to do, I get it. wanting to want to do, I get it. But we can't make that the focus of our But we can't make that the focus of our But we can't make that the focus of our conversation and our visit. The focus of conversation and our visit. The focus of conversation and our visit. The focus of our conversation is our on our visit is our conversation is our on our visit is our conversation is our on our visit is to take care of our service members and

49:39 to take care of our service members and to take care of our service members and their families. their families. their families. If that's part of it, we'll talk about If that's part of it, we'll talk about If that's part of it, we'll talk about it, but we got to get back to it. And it, but we got to get back to it. And it, but we got to get back to it. And that was some of the things and we can that was some of the things and we can that was some of the things and we can talk about that another time. talk about that another time. talk about that another time. Uh or some of the other challenges that Uh or some of the other challenges that Uh or some of the other challenges that we had as well. we had as well. we had as well. But uh COVID was a a challenge for us But uh COVID was a a challenge for us But uh COVID was a a challenge for us and I think we handled it as a guard in

49:56 and I think we handled it as a guard in and I think we handled it as a guard in probably one of the best fashions, one probably one of the best fashions, one probably one of the best fashions, one of the finest fashions I think any of of the finest fashions I think any of of the finest fashions I think any of the services could have. Not taking the services could have. Not taking the services could have. Not taking anything away from them but because we anything away from them but because we anything away from them but because we had to be engaged with so many different had to be engaged with so many different had to be engaged with so many different tool sets from local,

50:07 tool sets from local, tool sets from local, state, and federal. Um state, and federal. Um state, and federal. Um but I think our our guardsmen they but I think our our guardsmen they but I think our our guardsmen they they've done a fantastic job. they've done a fantastic job. they've done a fantastic job. My struggle was a little unique because My struggle was a little unique because My struggle was a little unique because a lot of these guard missions a lot of these guard missions a lot of these guard missions are typically to support the state, the are typically to support the state, the are typically to support the state, the governor that you that you work for,

50:23 governor that you that you work for, governor that you that you work for, that you represent. Me being a commander that you represent. Me being a commander that you represent. Me being a commander of C-17s, those are strategic airlift of C-17s, those are strategic airlift of C-17s, those are strategic airlift cargo missions. So, we're still flying cargo missions. So, we're still flying cargo missions. So, we're still flying missions all over the world. So, my missions all over the world. So, my missions all over the world. So, my struggle was struggle was struggle was I'm not here to tell you whether you I'm not here to tell you whether you I'm not here to tell you whether you should or should not take the vaccine

50:42 should or should not take the vaccine should or should not take the vaccine because of your personal, you know, because of your personal, you know, because of your personal, you know, principles or your religion. We we can principles or your religion. We we can principles or your religion. We we can talk about that outside of work. talk about that outside of work. talk about that outside of work. But I can't tell other countries, But I can't tell other countries, But I can't tell other countries, like Germany for example, it is like Germany for example, it is like Germany for example, it is absolutely required to have these absolutely required to have these

50:58 absolutely required to have these vaccines. vaccines. vaccines. Guys, we have a mission that goes all Guys, we have a mission that goes all Guys, we have a mission that goes all over the world. I I can't call up these over the world. I I can't call up these over the world. I I can't call up these foreign nations and say, "Well, you foreign nations and say, "Well, you foreign nations and say, "Well, you know, one of my pilots disagrees with know, one of my pilots disagrees with know, one of my pilots disagrees with the vaccine." So, my struggle was how do the vaccine." So, my struggle was how do the vaccine." So, my struggle was how do I still support you, you your opinion,

51:12 I still support you, you your opinion, I still support you, you your opinion, your disagreement with what's going on your disagreement with what's going on your disagreement with what's going on with these vaccines, but at the same with these vaccines, but at the same with these vaccines, but at the same time we do have a mission that is that's time we do have a mission that is that's time we do have a mission that is that's going on. So, even though COVID, a lot going on. So, even though COVID, a lot going on. So, even though COVID, a lot of people were, you know, working from of people were, you know, working from of people were, you know, working from home and all the all these remote

51:23 home and all the all these remote home and all the all these remote things, I was at work every day because things, I was at work every day because things, I was at work every day because those airplanes were flying all over the those airplanes were flying all over the those airplanes were flying all over the world every day. So, it was a real it world every day. So, it was a real it world every day. So, it was a real it was a real struggle of just trying to was a real struggle of just trying to was a real struggle of just trying to explain that, you know, these airplanes explain that, you know, these airplanes explain that, you know, these airplanes are going to go whether, you know, you

51:36 are going to go whether, you know, you are going to go whether, you know, you disagree or not. We'll put you on the disagree or not. We'll put you on the disagree or not. We'll put you on the sideline, but just realize we still have sideline, but just realize we still have sideline, but just realize we still have to fly these missions. to fly these missions. to fly these missions. Yeah, and and and that's what I meant Yeah, and and and that's what I meant Yeah, and and and that's what I meant by, uh you know, we we wouldn't have by, uh you know, we we wouldn't have by, uh you know, we we wouldn't have those conversations uh with regard to, those conversations uh with regard to,

51:48 those conversations uh with regard to, you know, the the back and forth because you know, the the back and forth because you know, the the back and forth because you especially local commanders, you you especially local commanders, you you especially local commanders, you know, you knew what you had to do and know, you knew what you had to do and know, you knew what you had to do and especially again flying across the especially again flying across the especially again flying across the globe. Um we could not impose anything globe. Um we could not impose anything globe. Um we could not impose anything and we were not going to try to impose and we were not going to try to impose

51:58 and we were not going to try to impose anything on any of our partners and anything on any of our partners and anything on any of our partners and allies uh with regard to how we handled allies uh with regard to how we handled allies uh with regard to how we handled COVID as to how they should how they did COVID as to how they should how they did COVID as to how they should how they did handle COVID themselves. And at the end handle COVID themselves. And at the end handle COVID themselves. And at the end of the day, if you weren't wearing the of the day, if you weren't wearing the of the day, if you weren't wearing the mask or if you were going to get them

52:08 mask or if you were going to get them mask or if you were going to get them wearing the wearing wear the mask or get wearing the wearing wear the mask or get wearing the wearing wear the mask or get the shot, and then you couldn't go. the shot, and then you couldn't go. the shot, and then you couldn't go. As simple as that. And we were not going As simple as that. And we were not going As simple as that. And we were not going to have a back and forth about, "Well, I to have a back and forth about, "Well, I to have a back and forth about, "Well, I want to go and they should let me go." want to go and they should let me go." want to go and they should let me go." No.

52:20 No. No. We're not going to entertain that. We We're not going to entertain that. We We're not going to entertain that. We got to do what we need to do so that the got to do what we need to do so that the got to do what we need to do so that the mission can continue to move forward. mission can continue to move forward. mission can continue to move forward. So, after that 4 years of being the, you So, after that 4 years of being the, you So, after that 4 years of being the, you know, the senior enlisted leader, know, the senior enlisted leader, know, the senior enlisted leader, that's, you know, 40 over four decades that's, you know, 40 over four decades

52:34 that's, you know, 40 over four decades of your life. What was the hardest part of your life. What was the hardest part of your life. What was the hardest part of stepping away? So, So, I think I was ready because I think I was ready because I think I was ready because it was all of my adult life. Cuz you got to see great things happen. Cuz you got to see great things happen. You I mean, of course, you know, You I mean, of course, you know, You I mean, of course, you know, people pass away. I lost both my mom and people pass away. I lost both my mom and people pass away. I lost both my mom and my dad, my brother, but you get to see my dad, my brother, but you get to see

52:57 my dad, my brother, but you get to see your kids grow up and become adults. your kids grow up and become adults. your kids grow up and become adults. You You You pay for your mortgage and you pay it off

53:00 Finding Purpose Beyond Titles and Rank

53:03 pay for your mortgage and you pay it off pay for your mortgage and you pay it off because you realize, all right, I'm not because you realize, all right, I'm not because you realize, all right, I'm not going to work if you're not going to going to work if you're not going to going to work if you're not going to work too. work too. work too. Uh you prepare yourself financially for Uh you prepare yourself financially for Uh you prepare yourself financially for it. You go to taps and they tell you all it. You go to taps and they tell you all it. You go to taps and they tell you all these great things that you can do to these great things that you can do to these great things that you can do to prepare yourself psychologically for it.

53:15 prepare yourself psychologically for it. prepare yourself psychologically for it. But you still have to wake up at home in But you still have to wake up at home in But you still have to wake up at home in your own bed the day after you get the your own bed the day after you get the your own bed the day after you get the the other ID card. the other ID card. the other ID card. And And And I thought I was ready and I I and I'm I thought I was ready and I I and I'm I thought I was ready and I I and I'm good I'm good now. Uh but I thought I good I'm good now. Uh but I thought I good I'm good now. Uh but I thought I was ready until I'd gone through the was ready until I'd gone through the

53:30 was ready until I'd gone through the motions and I went to Moody Air Force motions and I went to Moody Air Force motions and I went to Moody Air Force Base to finish everything up and I got Base to finish everything up and I got Base to finish everything up and I got my new ID card and I looked at it. One, my new ID card and I looked at it. One, my new ID card and I looked at it. One, I was in civilian clothes. I was in civilian clothes. I was in civilian clothes. And two, it said retired. And two, it said retired. And two, it said retired. And I was like, and there was nothing ceremonious about and there was nothing ceremonious about that. You know, you you have your

53:47 that. You know, you you have your that. You know, you you have your promotion ceremonies, retirement promotion ceremonies, retirement promotion ceremonies, retirement ceremonies, but there's nothing ceremonies, but there's nothing ceremonies, but there's nothing ceremonious about getting this ID card ceremonious about getting this ID card ceremonious about getting this ID card that reflects a new identity that reflects a new identity that reflects a new identity militarily, but it also reflects a new militarily, but it also reflects a new militarily, but it also reflects a new identity and a status of who you are now identity and a status of who you are now

53:58 identity and a status of who you are now as you walk away from there, especially as you walk away from there, especially as you walk away from there, especially for someone who's who's 61. for someone who's who's 61. for someone who's who's 61. And so, I got in my truck and I'm And so, I got in my truck and I'm And so, I got in my truck and I'm driving back from Georgia to Florida. driving back from Georgia to Florida. driving back from Georgia to Florida. And and as I leave the base, I'm And and as I leave the base, I'm And and as I leave the base, I'm thinking, thinking, thinking, I'll never come to that gate again I'll never come to that gate again I'll never come to that gate again as someone that's active. And And I'm glad I had that hour plus to think I'm glad I had that hour plus to think I'm glad I had that hour plus to think about that.

54:23 about that. about that. And then when I got home, I sat. And then when I got home, I sat. And then when I got home, I sat. Nothing dramatic or or or big. It was Nothing dramatic or or or big. It was Nothing dramatic or or or big. It was just I sat and I thought I just kind of just I sat and I thought I just kind of just I sat and I thought I just kind of like, oof. And then a couple weeks passed by and And then a couple weeks passed by and then I realized then I realized then I realized my entire career, especially in the last my entire career, especially in the last my entire career, especially in the last 15 or so years, you know, the military 15 or so years, you know, the military 15 or so years, you know, the military was a forcing function. Even though

54:41 was a forcing function. Even though was a forcing function. Even though we're leaders and we know how to take we're leaders and we know how to take we're leaders and we know how to take charge, we know how to lead from the charge, we know how to lead from the charge, we know how to lead from the front, go out and get things done, and front, go out and get things done, and front, go out and get things done, and be proactive, it was still a forcing be proactive, it was still a forcing be proactive, it was still a forcing function in that, you know, you walk in function in that, you know, you walk in function in that, you know, you walk in every day and there's an agenda. God

54:51 every day and there's an agenda. God every day and there's an agenda. God bless Christopher Preno. Yeah. You know, but it was always this is You know, but it was always this is what's going to happen today. what's going to happen today. what's going to happen today. After a couple weeks of realizing that, After a couple weeks of realizing that, After a couple weeks of realizing that, you know, you talk about morning you know, you talk about morning you know, you talk about morning routines and yeah, I have them now, but routines and yeah, I have them now, but routines and yeah, I have them now, but it was all going to be on me it was all going to be on me it was all going to be on me because I wasn't dashing out the door to because I wasn't dashing out the door to because I wasn't dashing out the door to go and find a job. So, I had to

55:11 go and find a job. So, I had to go and find a job. So, I had to like, okay, uh like, okay, uh like, okay, uh and then you have to say, "Well, now and then you have to say, "Well, now and then you have to say, "Well, now it's time for you to get to know it's time for you to get to know it's time for you to get to know yourself." I know myself. It's like, yourself." I know myself. It's like, yourself." I know myself. It's like, I know SEA Whitehead. I know Chief I know SEA Whitehead. I know Chief I know SEA Whitehead. I know Chief Whitehead and all those other ranks, but Whitehead and all those other ranks, but Whitehead and all those other ranks, but now do I know myself as someone that's

55:24 now do I know myself as someone that's now do I know myself as someone that's outside of the uniform, not on leave, outside of the uniform, not on leave, outside of the uniform, not on leave, but completely a civilian? but completely a civilian? but completely a civilian? And um and I'm starting to learn a lot And um and I'm starting to learn a lot And um and I'm starting to learn a lot about me that I didn't realize it about me that I didn't realize it about me that I didn't realize it existed because it was always in existed because it was always in existed because it was always in uniform. It was always part of the uniform. It was always part of the uniform. It was always part of the uniform. So, it was part of my mantra uniform. So, it was part of my mantra uniform. So, it was part of my mantra and so we've talked about it and so now

55:41 and so we've talked about it and so now and so we've talked about it and so now I'm I'm hungry to do something I'm I'm hungry to do something I'm I'm hungry to do something where I am the forcing function and that where I am the forcing function and that where I am the forcing function and that is to get involved in our community, is to get involved in our community, is to get involved in our community, especially with young men in particular especially with young men in particular especially with young men in particular and to get them working in the and to get them working in the and to get them working in the workforce. workforce. workforce. I got a couple of consulting gigs that I

55:53 I got a couple of consulting gigs that I I got a couple of consulting gigs that I talked to you about. I'm military talked to you about. I'm military talked to you about. I'm military advisor at Veterans United. And also I'm advisor at Veterans United. And also I'm advisor at Veterans United. And also I'm uh part of the uniform uh part of the uniform uh part of the uniform benefits board for Blue Cross and Blue benefits board for Blue Cross and Blue benefits board for Blue Cross and Blue Shield. Shield. Shield. Still working with our service members Still working with our service members Still working with our service members and their families, but

56:06 and their families, but and their families, but still a force giving me an opportunity still a force giving me an opportunity still a force giving me an opportunity to be Tony Whitehead and not SEA to be Tony Whitehead and not SEA to be Tony Whitehead and not SEA Whitehead because I needed to leave Whitehead because I needed to leave Whitehead because I needed to leave that. that. that. And I said all that to say this and and And I said all that to say this and and And I said all that to say this and and as you can tell I'm rambling every time as you can tell I'm rambling every time as you can tell I'm rambling every time you ask me a question. I'm I'm in a you ask me a question. I'm I'm in a

56:17 you ask me a question. I'm I'm in a comfortable place now where I comfortable place now where I comfortable place now where I I'm happy with the fact that I served I'm happy with the fact that I served I'm happy with the fact that I served that many years and I gained so much and that many years and I gained so much and that many years and I gained so much and I'm ready to put it to work because it's I'm ready to put it to work because it's I'm ready to put it to work because it's it's needed. You know, there's always a it's needed. You know, there's always a it's needed. You know, there's always a place for us in in the community once we place for us in in the community once we place for us in in the community once we get out of uniform. Sometimes we forget get out of uniform. Sometimes we forget get out of uniform. Sometimes we forget that. It's always an opportunity to give

56:35 that. It's always an opportunity to give that. It's always an opportunity to give back and it's not something that we do back and it's not something that we do back and it's not something that we do because, you know, you as a commander, because, you know, you as a commander, because, you know, you as a commander, it's like, okay, these are some things it's like, okay, these are some things it's like, okay, these are some things that we need to do to get our folks out that we need to do to get our folks out that we need to do to get our folks out there in the community. This is there in the community. This is there in the community. This is something that I need to do because, you

56:44 something that I need to do because, you something that I need to do because, you know, my country's been great to me and know, my country's been great to me and know, my country's been great to me and I see that there's a need for it and I I see that there's a need for it and I I see that there's a need for it and I want to do it and I'm not looking for want to do it and I'm not looking for want to do it and I'm not looking for recognition for it. recognition for it. recognition for it. Um I'm looking to do it because I care Um I'm looking to do it because I care Um I'm looking to do it because I care and I want this place to be better than and I want this place to be better than

56:55 and I want this place to be better than it was when I leave. it was when I leave. it was when I leave. For some of our listeners that this is For some of our listeners that this is For some of our listeners that this is the first time they've heard you speak, the first time they've heard you speak, the first time they've heard you speak, I want to let them know I want to let them know I want to let them know the the level of responsibility that you the the level of responsibility that you the the level of responsibility that you held during those last 4 years in the held during those last 4 years in the held during those last 4 years in the Pentagon. The Pentagon are these halls Pentagon. The Pentagon are these halls

57:13 Pentagon. The Pentagon are these halls of just prestige and history and they of just prestige and history and they of just prestige and history and they have a thing called a clap out where have a thing called a clap out where have a thing called a clap out where hundreds of people line the halls hundreds of people line the halls hundreds of people line the halls as these senior individuals come to the as these senior individuals come to the as these senior individuals come to the retirement and to walk out that retirement and to walk out that retirement and to walk out that building, like you said, in uniform for building, like you said, in uniform for

57:30 building, like you said, in uniform for the last time. the last time. the last time. For the folks listening or watching For the folks listening or watching For the folks listening or watching this, this, this, uh Chief Whitehead, the man you see on uh Chief Whitehead, the man you see on uh Chief Whitehead, the man you see on the screen, there are hundreds of people the screen, there are hundreds of people the screen, there are hundreds of people clapping, high-fiving, saluting, saying clapping, high-fiving, saluting, saying clapping, high-fiving, saluting, saying thank you for your service as you walk thank you for your service as you walk thank you for your service as you walk out the halls of history onto that next out the halls of history onto that next out the halls of history onto that next chapter. chapter. chapter. I just I just I just you know, you're you're such a

57:53 you know, you're you're such a you know, you're you're such a down-to-earth human being that down-to-earth human being that down-to-earth human being that people really need to realize the level people really need to realize the level people really need to realize the level of responsibility and respect in that of responsibility and respect in that of responsibility and respect in that position you held. And so, for you to position you held. And so, for you to position you held. And so, for you to for you to walk out that door and now be for you to walk out that door and now be for you to walk out that door and now be doing some of the things you're doing doing some of the things you're doing

58:08 doing some of the things you're doing now to continue to impact that next now to continue to impact that next now to continue to impact that next generation, I I just really want them to generation, I I just really want them to generation, I I just really want them to be aware. be aware. be aware. Because when you think about your next Because when you think about your next Because when you think about your next chapter that you're in now, chapter that you're in now, chapter that you're in now, what kind of impact do you still want to what kind of impact do you still want to what kind of impact do you still want to make? Okay, for the clap out, I got to tell

58:25 Okay, for the clap out, I got to tell you, I was nervous, man. I'd be nervous, you, I was nervous, man. I'd be nervous, you, I was nervous, man. I'd be nervous, too. too. too. I was afraid that I was going to cry. I was afraid that I was going to cry. I was afraid that I was going to cry. The minute I walked out my door because The minute I walked out my door because The minute I walked out my door because and even to hear you talk about it, the and even to hear you talk about it, the and even to hear you talk about it, the uh wow. uh wow. uh wow. It was it was humbling because It was it was humbling because It was it was humbling because you know, after

58:44 you know, after you know, after so many years of service, so many years of service, so many years of service, um I was ready to go. um I was ready to go. um I was ready to go. The finality of it it it's it's very The finality of it it it's it's very The finality of it it it's it's very real when some of those things started real when some of those things started real when some of those things started to happen and that was one that I to happen and that was one that I to happen and that was one that I I knew it was going to happen and I knew it was going to happen and I knew it was going to happen and I I I was very nervous about making that I I I was very nervous about making that I I I was very nervous about making that walk. And and I was intentional about my walk. And and I was intentional about my walk. And and I was intentional about my sister being with me because she was the

59:06 sister being with me because she was the sister being with me because she was the one that was with me and my mom, she was one that was with me and my mom, she was one that was with me and my mom, she was driving and dropped me off at the MEPS driving and dropped me off at the MEPS driving and dropped me off at the MEPS station. So, the very day that I went station. So, the very day that I went station. So, the very day that I went off to to join the Air Force, she was off to to join the Air Force, she was off to to join the Air Force, she was the one that did it, Michelle. And then the one that did it, Michelle. And then the one that did it, Michelle. And then my last day of of service, at least the

59:19 my last day of of service, at least the my last day of of service, at least the day of me in uniform before I went off day of me in uniform before I went off day of me in uniform before I went off to those ceremonies, it was her that to those ceremonies, it was her that to those ceremonies, it was her that walked me out. So, that was important, walked me out. So, that was important, walked me out. So, that was important, but it was Anyway, all right. Now, so but it was Anyway, all right. Now, so but it was Anyway, all right. Now, so where we are today, I don't know I don't know I would have been able to to have the I would have been able to to have the I would have been able to to have the thought process that I have now if it

59:37 thought process that I have now if it thought process that I have now if it hadn't been so for some some hadn't been so for some some hadn't been so for some some unbelievably impactful people. And unbelievably impactful people. And unbelievably impactful people. And again, you and I are talking and I don't again, you and I are talking and I don't again, you and I are talking and I don't know how it happened to where this know how it happened to where this know how it happened to where this kinship would just click from where we kinship would just click from where we kinship would just click from where we you know, we worked in our original you know, we worked in our original

59:48 you know, we worked in our original territory, but it did and I think it's territory, but it did and I think it's territory, but it did and I think it's because of just the man that you are. because of just the man that you are. because of just the man that you are. But it's and I think it's it's good men But it's and I think it's it's good men But it's and I think it's it's good men like you that that challenge, you know, like you that that challenge, you know, like you that that challenge, you know, challenge me to want to do more because challenge me to want to do more because challenge me to want to do more because you always know you do, but there's you always know you do, but there's

1:00:03 you always know you do, but there's always people that just you have these always people that just you have these always people that just you have these conversations that remind you that you conversations that remind you that you conversations that remind you that you know, know, know, that there's goodness out there and and that there's goodness out there and and that there's goodness out there and and and it's incumbent upon us to bring it and it's incumbent upon us to bring it and it's incumbent upon us to bring it out of others. Remember that is our are out of others. Remember that is our are out of others. Remember that is our are the young men and and women of our

1:00:14 the young men and and women of our the young men and and women of our community and and hopefully this isn't community and and hopefully this isn't community and and hopefully this isn't hitting anybody the wrong way, but hitting anybody the wrong way, but hitting anybody the wrong way, but especially the young men in our especially the young men in our especially the young men in our community because we we need them to be community because we we need them to be community because we we need them to be those leaders um that they've been those leaders um that they've been those leaders um that they've been created to be and unfortunately created to be and unfortunately created to be and unfortunately sometimes we see that it has not sometimes we see that it has not sometimes we see that it has not happened. You talked about your son and

1:00:29 happened. You talked about your son and happened. You talked about your son and I think that's great, but there are so I think that's great, but there are so I think that's great, but there are so many others that won't be blessed to many others that won't be blessed to many others that won't be blessed to have a mom and a dad like you um have a mom and a dad like you um have a mom and a dad like you um to challenge them to get out of their to challenge them to get out of their to challenge them to get out of their comfort zone even inspire them beyond comfort zone even inspire them beyond comfort zone even inspire them beyond some of the chaos and dysfunction that

1:00:40 some of the chaos and dysfunction that some of the chaos and dysfunction that they find themselves in. they find themselves in. they find themselves in. And it may not be because they don't And it may not be because they don't And it may not be because they don't have two parents or not or because have two parents or not or because have two parents or not or because someone else doesn't challenge them with someone else doesn't challenge them with someone else doesn't challenge them with the right words or even just the the right words or even just the the right words or even just the presence to say there is something presence to say there is something

1:00:50 presence to say there is something greater for you greater for you greater for you outside of where you are. outside of where you are. outside of where you are. And so I think that's where And so I think that's where And so I think that's where all those years of service, all those all those years of service, all those all those years of service, all those years of being a senior enlisted years of being a senior enlisted years of being a senior enlisted advisor, all those years of being advisor, all those years of being advisor, all those years of being commander, where you can see it in the commander, where you can see it in the commander, where you can see it in the eyes of the young men and women uh that eyes of the young men and women uh that eyes of the young men and women uh that are looking for someone to challenge are looking for someone to challenge

1:01:07 are looking for someone to challenge them out of that that them out of that that them out of that that that place where they just don't they that place where they just don't they that place where they just don't they know they don't belong, they know they know they don't belong, they know they know they don't belong, they know they don't fit, but they don't know how to don't fit, but they don't know how to don't fit, but they don't know how to get out of it. get out of it. get out of it. And so that's what I'm going to do with And so that's what I'm going to do with And so that's what I'm going to do with the rest of uh my life and my energy. I the rest of uh my life and my energy. I

1:01:20 the rest of uh my life and my energy. I mean, it's okay to make a dollar or two, mean, it's okay to make a dollar or two, mean, it's okay to make a dollar or two, but but but we're not going to be here forever. Um we're not going to be here forever. Um we're not going to be here forever. Um our our sons and daughters are going to our our sons and daughters are going to our our sons and daughters are going to grow up and want you know, want spouses, grow up and want you know, want spouses, grow up and want you know, want spouses, want communities, want careers and it's want communities, want careers and it's want communities, want careers and it's up to us to prepare them for it.

1:01:33 up to us to prepare them for it. up to us to prepare them for it. And we can't do it by hoping and praying And we can't do it by hoping and praying And we can't do it by hoping and praying that someone else will. that someone else will. that someone else will. It's got to be us. It's got to be us. It's got to be us. That's why I believe you mentioned it in That's why I believe you mentioned it in That's why I believe you mentioned it in the text that service can be an us lost the text that service can be an us lost the text that service can be an us lost art sometimes. art sometimes. art sometimes. When we find ourselves in a When we find ourselves in a When we find ourselves in a in a place where everything is so

1:01:50 in a place where everything is so in a place where everything is so convenient. You know, I mean, you can convenient. You know, I mean, you can convenient. You know, I mean, you can get your groceries delivered. get your groceries delivered. get your groceries delivered. And where I live here, you know, you see And where I live here, you know, you see And where I live here, you know, you see people getting their cars washed by people getting their cars washed by people getting their cars washed by someone. someone. someone. They get their lawns cut by someone. They get their lawns cut by someone. They get their lawns cut by someone. They get their food delivered.

62:00 What He'd Tell the Younger Officer Looking at This Path

1:02:07 They get their food delivered. They get their food delivered. They have someone coming clean their They have someone coming clean their They have someone coming clean their homes. homes. homes. Uh so those basic things that you can Uh so those basic things that you can Uh so those basic things that you can teach young people to do to employ these teach young people to do to employ these teach young people to do to employ these things, you know, to to develop a work things, you know, to to develop a work things, you know, to to develop a work ethic, the habit of doing, you don't see ethic, the habit of doing, you don't see ethic, the habit of doing, you don't see that happen anymore. And then of course

1:02:22 that happen anymore. And then of course that happen anymore. And then of course the invention of the phone that keeps the invention of the phone that keeps the invention of the phone that keeps them from making eye contact with each them from making eye contact with each them from making eye contact with each other, other, other, from from interacting with people. And from from interacting with people. And from from interacting with people. And as you mentioned before, getting as you mentioned before, getting as you mentioned before, getting involved in sports because we're afraid involved in sports because we're afraid involved in sports because we're afraid that they're going to get hurt.

1:02:36 that they're going to get hurt. that they're going to get hurt. Okay, kids fall. They are more resilient Okay, kids fall. They are more resilient Okay, kids fall. They are more resilient than than who who I mean, they're than than who who I mean, they're than than who who I mean, they're amazing. amazing. amazing. But we've got to give them a chance one But we've got to give them a chance one But we've got to give them a chance one to be kids and two to help develop them to be kids and two to help develop them to be kids and two to help develop them to be adults and to be functioning to be adults and to be functioning to be adults and to be functioning members of our society and they don't do

1:02:48 members of our society and they don't do members of our society and they don't do that unless someone says, I've got to be that unless someone says, I've got to be that unless someone says, I've got to be a part of making that happen. a part of making that happen. a part of making that happen. We can't hope someone else will do it. We can't hope someone else will do it. We can't hope someone else will do it. We've got to hope we can't hope someone We've got to hope we can't hope someone We've got to hope we can't hope someone else will do it. It's got to be us. And else will do it. It's got to be us. And else will do it. It's got to be us. And hopefully we will challenge others out

1:02:58 hopefully we will challenge others out hopefully we will challenge others out of their comfort zone meaning other of their comfort zone meaning other of their comfort zone meaning other adults uh to see that too. adults uh to see that too. adults uh to see that too. I want to stop right there. I want to stop right there. I want to stop right there. Chief, I love you so much. It's such an Chief, I love you so much. It's such an Chief, I love you so much. It's such an honor to work with you and be by your honor to work with you and be by your honor to work with you and be by your side and and to see, you know, you and side and and to see, you know, you and

1:03:10 side and and to see, you know, you and grow and develop and become grow and develop and become grow and develop and become hit that pinnacle of of the enlisted hit that pinnacle of of the enlisted hit that pinnacle of of the enlisted force. force. force. What do you hope that next generation of What do you hope that next generation of What do you hope that next generation of leaders does better leaders does better leaders does better than your generation did? than your generation did? than your generation did? Well, that's good. I Well, that's good. I Well, that's good. I I hope that they take the I hope that they take the I hope that they take the the smarts that they have.

1:03:30 the smarts that they have. the smarts that they have. Let me rephrase it. I hope they take the Let me rephrase it. I hope they take the Let me rephrase it. I hope they take the intelligence that they have and couple intelligence that they have and couple intelligence that they have and couple it with their smarts it with their smarts it with their smarts and then go out and do something and then go out and do something and then go out and do something physical with it. You know, the physical with it. You know, the physical with it. You know, the application piece is something that I I application piece is something that I I application piece is something that I I want to see them do more of. I think want to see them do more of. I think want to see them do more of. I think that they have great minds uh because that they have great minds uh because

1:03:45 that they have great minds uh because they've been exposed to so much they've been exposed to so much they've been exposed to so much information early in their lives, but information early in their lives, but information early in their lives, but they've got to use that information for they've got to use that information for they've got to use that information for the greater good and I want to see them the greater good and I want to see them the greater good and I want to see them do that. I want to see them be do that. I want to see them be do that. I want to see them be contributing members of their local contributing members of their local contributing members of their local communities. I want to see them look at communities. I want to see them look at communities. I want to see them look at our country too and uh want it to be the our country too and uh want it to be the

1:03:59 our country too and uh want it to be the absolute best that they can possibly be. absolute best that they can possibly be. absolute best that they can possibly be. And I want them to feel that, you know, And I want them to feel that, you know, And I want them to feel that, you know, they have a stake they have a stake they have a stake not only in what they do, but what our not only in what they do, but what our not only in what they do, but what our what our country becomes, what their what our country becomes, what their what our country becomes, what their community becomes. community becomes. community becomes. And where service is no longer something

1:04:14 And where service is no longer something And where service is no longer something that we look at with great admiration that we look at with great admiration that we look at with great admiration because only a few people do it, but it because only a few people do it, but it because only a few people do it, but it becomes the norm becomes the norm becomes the norm to where they get they get involved, to where they get they get involved, to where they get they get involved, they get their spouses involved, they they get their spouses involved, they they get their spouses involved, they get their kids involved. get their kids involved. get their kids involved. And it just becomes this thing where I And it just becomes this thing where I And it just becomes this thing where I mean, I know we're not going to be mean, I know we're not going to be

1:04:29 mean, I know we're not going to be walking around, you know, singing, you walking around, you know, singing, you walking around, you know, singing, you know, Kumbaya, know, Kumbaya, know, Kumbaya, but it's okay if there are some but it's okay if there are some but it's okay if there are some communities we go in and hear because it communities we go in and hear because it communities we go in and hear because it may become infectious. may become infectious. may become infectious. But it's up to us to get started and and But it's up to us to get started and and But it's up to us to get started and and I think the next generation has a great I think the next generation has a great I think the next generation has a great they've got a great advantage, you know, they've got a great advantage, you know, they've got a great advantage, you know, with information.

1:04:47 with information. with information. They can take that and do great things They can take that and do great things They can take that and do great things with it. They've just got to want to and with it. They've just got to want to and with it. They've just got to want to and and it falls back on us to challenge and it falls back on us to challenge and it falls back on us to challenge them to do it. them to do it. them to do it. Tony, before we close, Tony, before we close, Tony, before we close, I want to pause on something important. I want to pause on something important. I want to pause on something important. Your story reminds us that service

1:05:02 Your story reminds us that service Your story reminds us that service doesn't stop when the uniform comes off. doesn't stop when the uniform comes off. doesn't stop when the uniform comes off. It simply changes form. It simply changes form. It simply changes form. For 42 years For 42 years For 42 years you led from the ground up protecting you led from the ground up protecting you led from the ground up protecting people, people, people, preparing forces, preparing forces, preparing forces, advocating for airmen and soldiers, advocating for airmen and soldiers, advocating for airmen and soldiers, and most importantly carrying that and most importantly carrying that and most importantly carrying that responsibility responsibility responsibility at the highest levels. at the highest levels. at the highest levels. Now in this next chapter

1:05:24 Now in this next chapter Now in this next chapter you're choosing to carry that you're choosing to carry that you're choosing to carry that responsibility forward responsibility forward responsibility forward through mentorship, perspective, through mentorship, perspective, through mentorship, perspective, continued service to others. continued service to others. continued service to others. That's the heart of what I'm trying to That's the heart of what I'm trying to That's the heart of what I'm trying to do at Voice for Valor. do at Voice for Valor. do at Voice for Valor. Not just honor where someone has been, Not just honor where someone has been, Not just honor where someone has been, but recognize

1:05:40 but recognize but recognize that purpose doesn't expire with the that purpose doesn't expire with the that purpose doesn't expire with the rank. rank. rank. So thank you, brother. Thank you for So thank you, brother. Thank you for So thank you, brother. Thank you for your friendship, your friendship, your friendship, your leadership, your leadership, your leadership, and your continued service. and your continued service. and your continued service. Love you. Same to you, my friend. I love Love you. Same to you, my friend. I love Love you. Same to you, my friend. I love you, too, and anybody listening, however you, too, and anybody listening, however you, too, and anybody listening, however you can support this man, do it.

1:05:57 you can support this man, do it. you can support this man, do it. I know he's going to kick me, you know, I know he's going to kick me, you know, I know he's going to kick me, you know, when he sees me for saying that, but do. when he sees me for saying that, but do. when he sees me for saying that, but do. And when we get off, you got to got to And when we get off, you got to got to And when we get off, you got to got to get me back on that network, too, so get me back on that network, too, so get me back on that network, too, so that I can I can help support it as well that I can I can help support it as well that I can I can help support it as well because when we have conversations like

1:06:07 because when we have conversations like because when we have conversations like this, it just reminds me of how this, it just reminds me of how this, it just reminds me of how important it is to get out there and do important it is to get out there and do important it is to get out there and do great things because you are doing it great things because you are doing it great things because you are doing it and and and I can't thank you enough for who you are I can't thank you enough for who you are I can't thank you enough for who you are and what you do and what you contribute and what you do and what you contribute and what you do and what you contribute to our veterans. Thank you, Chief. to our veterans. Thank you, Chief. to our veterans. Thank you, Chief. Appreciate it.